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Prodigal_Son1
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Oh, but you don’t see anything wrong for asking a fellow Christian to “mediate” for you by having them pray for you? It’s the same thing, if you believe in eternal life.
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Prodigal_Son1
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And SHE, the woman, brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a Messianic iron and He was taken up to God and His throne.The woman mentioned in Rev12:1, is not necessarily Mary, it may just be symbolism of something elseAny faint possibility hat the crown with twelve stars, may have represented the 12 Tribes of Israel?
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Neither is Trinity, “rapture”, or sola scriptura. You can find the term “private interpretation”, but it’s phrased as a warning against it.
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elvisman
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Neither is “Faith alone”.Neither is Trinity, “rapture”, or sola scriptura. You can find the term “private interpretation”, but it’s phrased as a warning against it.
Oh, wait a minute - it IS there!
James 2:24 says:
"A man is justified by works and not by faith alone"
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OnlyJesus
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Rinnie, you are posting your own beliefs about Mary.
*What you do not understand is Mary is the Mother church. *
Mary is NOT the Church.
The Church is Christ’s believers. Scriptures tell us, Christ is the head and the church is the body.
*What you do not understand is Mary is the Mother church. *
Mary is NOT the Church.
The Church is Christ’s believers. Scriptures tell us, Christ is the head and the church is the body.
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sambos671
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I don’t think Rennie actually said this. I looked at the last several post and didn’t see this stated.
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OnlyJesus
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dear prodigal son I HAVE read every post in this thread thus far.
I use caps to emphasize words in print that I would emphasize tonally if i were speaking to you in person.
Rinnie’s comments indicate to me more than simply “honor” of Mary, well and not just Rinnie here, some other posters as well.
I use caps to emphasize words in print that I would emphasize tonally if i were speaking to you in person.
Rinnie’s comments indicate to me more than simply “honor” of Mary, well and not just Rinnie here, some other posters as well.
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OnlyJesus
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hercules, i have wondered about Jesus giving over Mary into the care of John…as to why did he do that.
It may have something to do with Jewish customs is my thinking…something else interesting to research.
It may have something to do with Jewish customs is my thinking…something else interesting to research.
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OnlyJesus
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Rinnie it seems you talk a lot more about Mary than you do the Lord Jesus.
There also seems to be a tremendous emphasis of the Church over Christ as well by that I mean, it seems the church speaks of itself more than it does of Christ.
Do you believe in winning souls for Christ? Is soul winning a Catholic doctrine? If so, how does a Catholic go about speaking to someone of Jesus.
There also seems to be a tremendous emphasis of the Church over Christ as well by that I mean, it seems the church speaks of itself more than it does of Christ.
Do you believe in winning souls for Christ? Is soul winning a Catholic doctrine? If so, how does a Catholic go about speaking to someone of Jesus.
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OnlyJesus
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dear prodigalson
*Why do you ask Christians, on earth, to pray for you if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man?
Do you not believe that Mary is eternally alive in heaven? Do you not think that the Holy Spirit has made all things known to those in heaven, including what is happening on earth?*
I’ve already answered that part about why ask other Christians to pray for me ( us, i.e. other Christian ) and given supporting scriptures.
As the scriptures tell us, I believe Mary’s spirit has returned to God who gave it. I believe her body however is asleep in Christ as are other Christ believers ( with a few exceptions noted in scripture ) and there her body will remain until Christ raises her up.
I believe those in heaven know and see what is happening down here as if they are watching a play.
Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And especially this verse which has always struck me as so ominous as if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit along with the heavenly hosts are experiencing a solemn moment before destruction.
Revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
*Why do you ask Christians, on earth, to pray for you if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man?
Do you not believe that Mary is eternally alive in heaven? Do you not think that the Holy Spirit has made all things known to those in heaven, including what is happening on earth?*
I’ve already answered that part about why ask other Christians to pray for me ( us, i.e. other Christian ) and given supporting scriptures.
As the scriptures tell us, I believe Mary’s spirit has returned to God who gave it. I believe her body however is asleep in Christ as are other Christ believers ( with a few exceptions noted in scripture ) and there her body will remain until Christ raises her up.
I believe those in heaven know and see what is happening down here as if they are watching a play.
Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And especially this verse which has always struck me as so ominous as if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit along with the heavenly hosts are experiencing a solemn moment before destruction.
Revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I’ll let rinnie speak for themself, but I think rinnie was addressing the topic of the discussion at the time, which was Mary.
You mistake Church over Christ. Christ is the head and center of the Catholic Church. The Church was a gift from Christ.
We are all a part of the royal priesthood. The Church has spent 2000 years sharing the Gospel, bringing Christ to people, all around the world.
**1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
Rom 1:7 To all that are at Rome, the beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you and peace, from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.**
There was only one Church until 1054 when the great schism occurred. Then both Churches followed Catholic doctrine. It wasn’t until the 1500s that the Protestant reformation began and then they came from the Catholic Church.
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sambos671
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Yes it is the Church’s doctrine. There are also Lay Catholic Missionaries as well. There are ministries to the Poor, the Sick, the Hungry, etc… Catholics do speak to people about Jesus. In fact you can’t go to Mass or any other Catholic function and not talk about Jesus.
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almightyservant
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Those two statements I bolded above contradict each other.
If it’s a paradox, then please clarify.
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OnlyJesus
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this is the kind of comment that gets me:
I pray to Mary, the Mother of God, because she is perfect and knows Jesus more than any of us ever could, and she knows exactly what to do. It is obvious that some people pray more and better than others. Why should any of us here think that we can pray to Jesus any better than his most perfect mother?
Jesus instructed us “whatsoever you ask in MY name, that I will do”. ( I’ve mentioned this in a previous post )
If Jesus said that then why would anyone pray to Mary when you can simply do what Christ instructed?
Let me ask you this question.
Is there any Catholic doctrine that says Catholics MUST pray to Mary? Thanks.
I pray to Mary, the Mother of God, because she is perfect and knows Jesus more than any of us ever could, and she knows exactly what to do. It is obvious that some people pray more and better than others. Why should any of us here think that we can pray to Jesus any better than his most perfect mother?
Jesus instructed us “whatsoever you ask in MY name, that I will do”. ( I’ve mentioned this in a previous post )
If Jesus said that then why would anyone pray to Mary when you can simply do what Christ instructed?
Let me ask you this question.
Is there any Catholic doctrine that says Catholics MUST pray to Mary? Thanks.
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Prodigal_Son1
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If you had actually read through this thread as you say you did, you would have seen it stated, it is not required of Catholics to pray to anyone but Jesus. Just as Protestants ask love ones or friends to pray for them, we ask our love ones to pray for us, including those in heaven, who by your own admission know what is happening on earth.
Let me ask you a question. What do you hope to accomplish on a Catholic forum? Specifically what are your goals here?
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sambos671
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No. But its in the liturgy. I understand your hesitance here. I focus on her obediance. She is an example to follow. The Lord through the angle said what he would do and knowing full well the possible out comes she complies. Mary Leads us to Jesus. Always Jesus. Even in the prayer Ave Maria I always focus on the “fruit of thy womb Jesus” I look at Mary also as the ark of the New Covenant which particpated in the incarnation by her obedience.
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almightyservant
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Like someone mentioned before, we begin by praying “In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”. We pray to Mary for intercession. We do not pray to because she is a god.
Please refer to post #381, and my first answer within this post.
No. There is no doctrine that says we must pray to Mary. I’m not trying to be funny, but there is also no doctrine that says we must wash our hands with soap and water before eating or doctrine that states that we must walk with both our legs(assuming one has two legs). But we do these things because they make sense and help us live a fuller life.
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OnlyJesus
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It all boils down to the simple fact that if they admit that the Blessed Mother can intercede for us, is to admit that the Catholic Church is right. If the Catholic Church is right on this, which many Protestants cite as unbiblical, then how many more Catholic practices are true that they will have to admit. Before you know it, the fullness of truth is realized and then they are left with a dilemma, what do they do now, convert or continue to deny what is now recognized as the fullness of truth. However, there is always the ability to apply rationalization to each truth so that it fits your personal interpretation.
Quite a few words in that posts but it’s not what words you used, it’s what words you didn’t.
Blessed Mother - 1
Catholic Church - 2
Catholic practices - 1
Jesus Christ - 0
For me reading in this forum has been a real shock, as big a shock as I felt when someone said they were a Christian but then said they did not believe in Christ. I went HUH?!!? to that too.
Another weirdness is a professed atheist who does not believe God or Christ or the Holy Spirit exist but talks about angels all the time. Go figure.
Then there are the ones who believe in Christ but don’t believe scriptures can possibly be true, or accurate or be the Word of God. Just blows my mind.
Quite a few words in that posts but it’s not what words you used, it’s what words you didn’t.
Blessed Mother - 1
Catholic Church - 2
Catholic practices - 1
Jesus Christ - 0
For me reading in this forum has been a real shock, as big a shock as I felt when someone said they were a Christian but then said they did not believe in Christ. I went HUH?!!? to that too.
Another weirdness is a professed atheist who does not believe God or Christ or the Holy Spirit exist but talks about angels all the time. Go figure.
Then there are the ones who believe in Christ but don’t believe scriptures can possibly be true, or accurate or be the Word of God. Just blows my mind.
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almightyservant
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Please use the quote button. It’s makes it easier to follow what you’re referring to.
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