Protestants listen up

[ppasa316]

The scribes didn’t know Christ. Christ had told the man with palsy, “Son, thy sins are forgiven thee.” This made the scribes think, “Who can forgive sins, but God only?” That’s when Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why think you these things in your hearts?”

Mar 2:5 And when Jesus had seen their faith, he saith to the sick of the palsy: Son, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 And there were some of the scribes sitting there and thinking in their hearts:
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man speak thus? He blasphemeth. Who can forgive sins, but God only?
Mar 2:8 Which Jesus presently knowing in his spirit that they so thought within themselves, saith to them: Why think you these things in your hearts?

There is only ONE mediator between man and God and that’s Jesus. But Jesus had all power given Him and He ordained men of His Church, the Apostles and gave them authority to act in His absence, as He knew what was going to happen.

Priests are of the Apostolic succession.

I’m sorry again, but 2 Timothy does NOT say scriptures are sufficient.

**DRB
2Ti 3:15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:

KJV
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

IGNT
2Ti 3:15 καιG2532 AND οτιG3754 THAT αποG575 FROM βρεφουςG1025 A BABE ταG3588 THE ιεραG2413 SACRED γραμματαG1121 LETTERS οιδαςG1492 [G5758] THOU HAST KNOWN, ταG3588 WHICH “ARE” δυναμεναG1410 [G5740] ABLE σεG4571 THEE σοφισαιG4679 [G5658] TO MAKE WISE ειςG1519 TO σωτηριανG4991 SALVATION, διαG1223 THROUGH πιστεωςG4102 FAITH τηςG3588 WHICH “IS” ενG1722 IN χριστωG5547 CHRIST ιησουG2424 JESUS.
2Ti 3:16 πασαG3956 EVERY γραφηG1124 SCRIPTURE “IS” θεοπνευστοςG2315 GOD INSPIRED καιG2532 AND ωφελιμοςG5624 PROFITABLE προςG4314 FOR διδασκαλιανG1319 TEACHING, προςG4314 FOR ελεγχονG1650 CONVICTION, προςG4314 FOR επανορθωσινG1882 CORRECTION, προςG4314 FOR παιδειανG3809 DISCIPLINE τηνG3588 WHICH “IS” ενG1722 IN δικαιοσυνηG1343 RIGHTEOUSNESS;**

The Greek word used was “ōphelimos”. It meant “profitable” or “useful”, both of which are short of being sufficient.

G5624
ὠφέλιμος
ōphelimos
o-fel’-ee-mos
From a form of G3786; helpful or serviceable, that is, advantageous: - profit (-able).

Why would Christ send offenses to the Church, if scriptures were the sole authority?

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Why would the God inspired Word say the Church of the living God was the pillar and ground of truth, instead of scriptures if they were the sole authority?

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Why would the inspired Word of God say that the manifold wisdom of God could be made known through the Church, instead of scriptures if scriptures were the sole authority?

Eph 3:10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church

St. Peter tells us the dangers of private interpretation.

2Pe 3:15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Friend, if you read this post and the scriptures provided, you can see the Church’s interpretation and they speak clearly. I am not trying to be offensive, but you are the one with a private interpretation, as I’ve demonstrated through several posts.

You never answered the question about the book of acts. If the apostles had authority to forgive or retain sins why is there not an instance in acts where this is done. Instead they proclaimed the forgiveness of sins by Christ. I gave you II Tim 3:15-16 to support sola scriptura but you chose not to use it. Here are others to ponder on. Jesus said Jn 10:35 “The scripturers cannot be broken.” Matt 4;4-10, 22:43, 5:17-18, 22:29 Jn 17:17. This is no private interpetation. I don’t want to hear what a church has to say, What does Christ say in His Word. Are you new to this? Please Read Study and Live God’s Word. I see so many new converts try to defend their faith but have not given enough time to study it. I leave you with Col 2:8 to read. The scriptures are clear. They are not my words but Christs

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You never answered the question about the book of acts. If the apostles had authority to forgive or retain sins why is there not an instance in acts where this is done. Instead they proclaimed the forgiveness of sins by Christ. I gave you II Tim 3:15-16 to support sola scriptura but you chose not to use it. Here are others to ponder on. Jesus said Jn 10:35 “The scripturers cannot be broken.” Matt 4;4-10, 22:43, 5:17-18, 22:29 Jn 17:17. This is no private interpetation. I don’t want to hear what a church has to say, What does Christ say in His Word. Are you new to this? Please Read Study and Live God’s Word. I see so many new converts try to defend their faith but have not given enough time to study it. I leave you with Col 2:8 to read. The scriptures are clear. They are not my words but Christs

Hello ppasa316,

I addressed each point you raised in the very post you quoted. This shows you have an agenda and are not open to an honest discussion.

An Apostle would not have written a confession. While you continue to demand a written experience of forgiving sins in Acts, you continue to reject the words of Christ in John 20:23.
Now you point to Christ saying, “The scriptures cannot be broken.” Number one, Christ is speaking about the Old Testament, since NO writings of the New Testament existed at that time. Number two, Christ is referring to the scriptures that point to Him, the Messiah. Number three, this scripture does not support sola scriptura or private interpretation.

You take a “part” of a verse, and ignore the whole passage, in an attempt to support your theology, that is your own private interpretation. It almost appears you are going to someone, or a source, for scriptures to support what you say, but you are not getting an explanation of how to apply them to the discussion.

The list of scriptures you provided show you clearly do not understand what they say. Yet you word an ad hominem sentence in an attempt to inflame me, or so it seems. I study the scriptures, in context. I do not search for a verse, or a part of a verse, and think there’s the answer as it appears you do. I live the word as best as I can and forgive you for your insinuation that I don’t.

I ask you read the responses I posted, slowly so that you might understand the points being made. If you choose not to, I am comfortable with our posts speaking for themselves.

As for Col. 2:8, I am sharing the traditions of the Apostles as taught to them by Jesus Christ our Lord. This is another example of you pulling a verse out of context, or fitting scriptures to your theology. If we take it to mean what your interpretation is, it makes the scriptures contradict themselves and I do not believe there is a contradiction in scriptures. Scriptures are inerrant, it’s man’s private interpretation that errs.

**1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

2Th 2:15 (2:14) Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

2Th 3:6 And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.**

You say there is no private interpretation. Please tell us where you get your interpretation?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

They are not my words but Christs

These are your interpretations of the word…

If Christ had intended for scriptures to be the sole authority, why is it He did not write one verse, or have anything scribed as per His specific instructions?

Joh 20:30 Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name.

Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

 

[1beleevr]

Prodigal: Praise God for youe diligence and persistence in debating, researching and knowledge! It is obvious that you have a passion for the catholic church, and lifestyle! You did a lot of reading of the scriptures; and provided a well thought out position, on whether or not man is capable of forgiving sins! However, as has been the position of many a noncatholic, there is no direction from scripture, for US to confess our sins to a priest, as the catholic church requires! We would also have to accept(by faith, I suppose) that these priests of today(and tomorrow) are part of what you refer to as “apostolic succession”. For me personally, that is a stretch I am still trying to believe that pope Benedict XVI is the vicar of Christ And I do strongly believe that Christ’s words, are directed to ALL believers.And as far as interpretation of scripture, would it be remotely possible that the story of the man with demons, who went into the pigs(Legion,Luke8:30), was one of Jesus sending out the first missionary? He told this man, “Go and tell your family, all the things I have done for you!” By your interpretation of Christ’s words only directed to apostles, the healed man would have said,“Okay, but I have to clear with Your disciples!” And in John 16:23-24, Jesus tells US that we can ask the Father directly, in His Name, and it would be granted:thumbsup: I respect the fact, that you are steadfast in your beliefs, and are evidently quite proud of your religion, but grant us noncatholics the same respect. Yes, we have differences of opinion, but we all serv the same BIG God, and someday, all these petty diferences will be swept aside, and we will worship and praise Him all day long. So then, your point of view is that one must confess sins to a priest(John 20:23,James 5:16) and ours, seems to be 1John 1:9.

 

[1beleevr]

wisdomseeker:Interesting screen name; are you still seeking? And I don’t put myself above anyone, or any church, etc,etc,etc! I am simply saying, that if Mary was born of a woman(not a virgin), then she was susceptible to the sin that was introduced by Adam and his wife(whom he named Eve, after the fall Gen 3:20). Romans 5:12, tells us that because of Adam and Eve’s sin, we were ALL cursed! But, let us not sell our God short!!! He is capable of Almighty miracles, one of them being, the sanctification of Mary’s womb, to ensure, that Christ, who had to be born of a woman, would be protected from the stain of original sin! Romans 3:23, states that ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God:thumbsup: I believe that,1)God always prepares the vesssel, 2)Mary was a willing servant; as was Joseph,3) She had marital relations, after Jesus was born(Matthew 1:25) But thanks for the post:thumbsup:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal: Praise God for youe diligence and persistence in debating, researching and knowledge! It is obvious that you have a passion for the catholic church, and lifestyle! You did a lot of reading of the scriptures; and provided a well thought out position, on whether or not man is capable of forgiving sins! However, as has been the position of many a noncatholic, there is no direction from scripture, for US to confess our sins to a priest, as the catholic church requires! We would also have to accept(by faith, I suppose) that these priests of today(and tomorrow) are part of what you refer to as “apostolic succession”. For me personally, that is a stretch I am still trying to believe that pope Benedict XVI is the vicar of Christ And I do strongly believe that Christ’s words, are directed to ALL believers.And as far as interpretation of scripture, would it be remotely possible that the story of the man with demons, who went into the pigs(Legion,Luke8:30), was one of Jesus sending out the first missionary? He told this man, “Go and tell your family, all the things I have done for you!” By your interpretation of Christ’s words only directed to apostles, the healed man would have said,“Okay, but I have to clear with Your disciples!” And in John 16:23-24, Jesus tells US that we can ask the Father directly, in His Name, and it would be granted:thumbsup: I respect the fact, that you are steadfast in your beliefs, and are evidently quite proud of your religion, but grant us noncatholics the same respect. Yes, we have differences of opinion, but we all serv the same BIG God, and someday, all these petty diferences will be swept aside, and we will worship and praise Him all day long. So then, your point of view is that one must confess sins to a priest(John 20:23,James 5:16) and ours, seems to be 1John 1:9.

Hello 1beleevr,

There is a difference between the man He drove the demons out of. He told the man to go tell his house what great things God had done for him, after the man had asked to be with Him.

Luk 8:38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him. But Jesus sent him away, saying:
Luk 8:39 Return to thy house and tell how great things God hath done to thee. And he went through the whole city, publishing how great things Jesus had done to him.

The Apostles on the other hand received a different communication from the Lord.

**DRB
Joh 15:16 You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

KJV
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.**

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Lord told the Apostles that He chose them and ordained them. His instructions to them was to teach all nations. The man He drove the demons out of was told to tell his house, not teach and no other place but his house.

In John 16:22 - 23, who was the specific audience Christ was addressing? Was it the multitudes, us, or was it His Apostles who were being instructed on the authority He was giving them in His Church? I read it and see He was speaking to those who were to receive authority in His Church. Does this mean everyone else is excluded from asking for things in His name? No, it does not, but everyone else was not ordained by Him. It is because of this passage that the Catholic Church concludes all prayers in His name.

Confession is partially based on John 20:23, James 5:16 and 1 John 1:9. While you take 1 John 1:9 to mean we specifically confess directly to God, the verse does not specifiy if it’s directly to God from the sinner, or directly to God through the sacrament of confession. The problem is, now we are in a dicussion of Apostolic succession, but it’s all connected. If you’d like, I can provide the scriptures where the Apostolic Church and succession is supported?

Please let me qualify our differences. I believe Protestants worship the same God as Catholics; God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Protestantism has roots to the Catholic Church, as it came from the Catholic Church. The beliefs of Protestants came from the Church. The differences are those things that new denominations reject as “non-essentials”, through private interpretation. I only want to serve God to the fullest capacity, as God wants to be served. Out of respect and honor to His glory, I don’t want to leave out the smallest detail, or “non-essential”. I hope you can understand what I am saying.

 

[racing59]

You know as a kid my dad always said go to the Blessed Mother. She know’s pain, She saw her son hung on a cross. No one has sufferered like the Blessed Mother.

As A Mother every day those words come to life for me.

Go to her. She does not have the Power of Christ but she has the love of Christ to help you.

She is the MOTHER of GOD. Do you not believe that she can help you. Please quit the nonsense of saying she can’t do this or that.

GOD picked her. Give her your pain. give her your problems. And believe if God could have called on her to take the pain of seeing her son suffer, she can help you also.

Go to your Mother she is the Mother that is perfect. Try it . I swear to you she can help you.

What Son or daughter who loves their Mother can refuse her. Don’t you think Jesus is the same!

Trust her! God gave her to you as he was hanging on the Cross. Trust her, as God trusted her!

I haven’t read the post on this thread so I may say something someone has already said. I personally have no problem going before Mary, just as the acient Israelites went before the Ark of the Covenant to pray to God.To me Scripture shows Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant. I have other Protestant friends feel the same way. My wife once said the Holy Spirit told her “You don’t want to get to Heaven and have Jesus say, " You persicuted my Mother.” If death can not seperate us from the love of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason Mary is still his Mom.

 

[mrflibbleisvryx]

I gave you II Tim 3:15-16 to support sola scriptura but you chose not to use it. Here are others to ponder on. Jesus said Jn 10:35 “The scripturers cannot be broken.”

Using this verse to justify your position is a fallacy. The “scriptures” at the time of Christ, as well as at the time of the apostles were the OLD TESTAMENT. There was no NT. And the letters, and epistles, etc mostly weren’t written yet. Neither were the Gospels. So none of that was considered scripture at that time.

If you limit yourself to the scriptures that Christ and the apostles are talking about, you’re limiting yourself to the Old Testament, specifically the Septuagint, which was the set of scriptures in use at the time among the Hebrew community.

 

[1beleevr]

Prodigal son1:THANK YOU! We are still diametrically opposed, but so be it! I am not so naive, that I don’t know that the disciples, were Jesus’s original audience But, once again, I am having to disagree with you, about Christ’s words, and who they apply to, besides the apostles/disciples! God speaks to me almost daily, and puts people in my path, to show me what I need to see, or hear,etc.! I do consult and share with other believers, some of them pastors; and so we edify the body, by encouraging each other! Many of us noncatholics, believe that not only was Jesus talking to the disciples, in Matthew 28:19-20(originally), but was exhorting ALL believers, to take the Good News to all ends of the earth(Matthew 5:14-16) You are quite astute when providing scripture, and I commend you for that; but, don’t rebuke others for seeing something in scripture that speaks to them; rather than saying,“You are twisting scripture to fit your own agenda!” For example, when I read 2Samuel 14:14, I see a picture of Christ!:thumbsup:Let us have our differences, but let us not condemn, or persecute! I know we should be one body, one belief, and serve the same God, but because of free will, we have all made our own choices about, how we worship! Oh for that glorious day, when, all believers(Bride of Christ), are united as one body, not one religion:thumbsup:

 

[MDK]

Prodigal: Praise God for youe diligence and persistence in debating, researching and knowledge! It is obvious that you have a passion for the catholic church, and lifestyle! You did a lot of reading of the scriptures; and provided a well thought out position, on whether or not man is capable of forgiving sins! However, as has been the position of many a noncatholic, there is no direction from scripture, for US to confess our sins to a priest, as the catholic church requires! We would also have to accept(by faith, I suppose) that these priests of today(and tomorrow) are part of what you refer to as “apostolic succession”. For me personally, that is a stretch I am still trying to believe that pope Benedict XVI is the vicar of Christ And I do strongly believe that Christ’s words, are directed to ALL believers.And as far as interpretation of scripture, would it be remotely possible that the story of the man with demons, who went into the pigs(Legion,Luke8:30), was one of Jesus sending out the first missionary? He told this man, “Go and tell your family, all the things I have done for you!” By your interpretation of Christ’s words only directed to apostles, the healed man would have said,“Okay, but I have to clear with Your disciples!” And in John 16:23-24, Jesus tells US that we can ask the Father directly, in His Name, and it would be granted:thumbsup: I respect the fact, that you are steadfast in your beliefs, and are evidently quite proud of your religion, but grant us noncatholics the same respect. Yes, we have differences of opinion, but we all serv the same BIG God, and someday, all these petty diferences will be swept aside, and we will worship and praise Him all day long. So then, your point of view is that one must confess sins to a priest(John 20:23,James 5:16) and ours, seems to be 1John 1:9.

What about the authority who authored the Scriptures with the inspiration and protection of the Holy Spirit… the same Scriptures you believe to be inspired? Would that authority be able to teach correctly, and tell what was in the Scriptures she authored? There was authority established by God to teach. Sadly, many today have no understanding of this, and go any way they want while applying their own self described “authority” to interpreting the Scriptures authored by the Catholic Church who still has the real authority as protected by God.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal son1:THANK YOU! We are still diametrically opposed, but so be it! I am not so naive, that I don’t know that the disciples, were Jesus’s original audience But, once again, I am having to disagree with you, about Christ’s words, and who they apply to, besides the apostles/disciples! God speaks to me almost daily, and puts people in my path, to show me what I need to see, or hear,etc.! I do consult and share with other believers, some of them pastors; and so we edify the body, by encouraging each other! Many of us noncatholics, believe that not only was Jesus talking to the disciples, in Matthew 28:19-20(originally), but was exhorting ALL believers, to take the Good News to all ends of the earth(Matthew 5:14-16) You are quite astute when providing scripture, and I commend you for that; but, don’t rebuke others for seeing something in scripture that speaks to them; rather than saying,“You are twisting scripture to fit your own agenda!” For example, when I read 2Samuel 14:14, I see a picture of Christ!:thumbsup:Let us have our differences, but let us not condemn, or persecute! I know we should be one body, one belief, and serve the same God, but because of free will, we have all made our own choices about, how we worship! Oh for that glorious day, when, all believers(Bride of Christ), are united as one body, not one religion:thumbsup:

Hello again 1beleevr,

I apologize for not articulating my thoughts more clearly.

We really do not disagree on who is being spoken too. Even though He was specifically addressing His Apostles, we can take example from this passage. I believe all the body of Christ, His believers, are called to a royal priesthood to share the Gospel, through our words and example. The difference is, some were chosen and ordained by Him. That ordination is a very important aspect in this discussion.

**Eph 4:11 And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors:

1Co 12:28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors?

1Ti 3:1 A faithful saying: If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth good work.

1Ti 3:8 Deacons in like manner: chaste, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre:

1Ti 5:17 Let the priests that rule well be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.**

Scriptures include instructions on ordination, by the men with authority in His Church.

**1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.

1Ti 5:22 Impose not hands lightly upon any man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins. Keep thyself chaste.

Act 14:23 (14:22) And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

2Ti 2:2 And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men who shall be fit to teach others also.

Tit 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee:**

This was a teaching from Christ.

**Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Joh 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”

Luk 22:29 and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom,
Luk 22:30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.**

As I told you I want to serve God to the fullest capacity as He wants to be served, let me include worship also. I want to serve and worship God to the fullest capacity as He wants to be served and worshipped. For me, that’s in the Catholic Church.

For those outside the Church, I do not condemn or judge. In our walk, we are all at different levels of spiritual growth. Some are ready for meat and some can only take milk, to use an analogy by St. Paul. Meat or milk, all are Christians, seeking God.

The reason I “rebuked”, as you say, another for having an agenda and twisting scriptures, or avoiding an honest discussion is, it appears he did not read what I had posted. It appears he read a part of it and ignored the rest, as it appears he does scriptures (only I can explain what I meant), missing responses directly to all his points. Then, he left a lot of questions unanswered. When this happens on these forums, it’s usually a sign of not seeking a common ground but instead seeking a platform to post anti-Catholic remarks. Just as I understand you expect respect, we expect it as well.

I know the position you guys are in. There is a Church of God forum, where I am the only Catholic who posts there.

I also understand the point of view as a non-Catholic. I was raised Protestant and converted in 1985. I was not evangelized by man. I researched Bible and Church history because I questioned all the denominations, with slight to great differences in doctrine, all based on someone’s private interpretation.

 

[MDK]

…The scriptures are clear. They are not my words but Christs

First, how do you say the Scriptures are clear when the Holy Spirit inspired author St. Peter warned all when speaking about Paul’s epistles as recorded in 2 Peter 3:16 “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.”

Next, do you have any idea how you have come about to read Christ’s words (which you unfortunately summarily then do violence to the meaning)? If not for the Catholic Church, you would not even have these Scriptures. If you were educated in Bible history, you would know that the Catholic Church authored Scriptures from beginning of the first NT Scripture written until closing the canon with the OT and NT. If you were educated in proper context of Scriptures, you would know that the Scriptures belong in the same context in which they were written… namely, as part of the teachings of the Catholic Church, the one true faith in which these Scriptures make sense. It’s no wonder those who take these scriptures will do violence to the meanings, because they have no proper education or guide to help. God gave us all one, and it’s up to us to accept and be glad for what Christ has given us. I for one, and very thankful for His Church in which His word is taught without error, and in which He is really, truly and substantially present to us. This is an incomparable Gift of Himself.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Martin Luther conceded that the Bible came from the Catholic Church.

“We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics)–that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it.

This is one reason Catholics see irony in Protestant rejection of Church interpretation of scriptures. If the Church defined the canon of what belonged and what didn’t, in the New Testament, and preserved the inspired word of God for 1500+ years, so it was available to the reformation, why is it the Church’s interpretation is questioned?

God entrusted the Church to define the canon of the Bible and to preserve it, from the time it was written until present day. Why would God have not entrusted the interpretation of those scriptures to the Church?

 

[MDK]

…Let us have our differences, but let us not condemn, or persecute! I know we should be one body, one belief, and serve the same God, but because of free will, we have all made our own choices about, how we worship! Oh for that glorious day, when, all believers(Bride of Christ), are united as one body, not one religion:thumbsup:

We must condemn that which is harmful to its adherents and unfaithful to Christ. Rules of faith that cause one to misinterpret the meanings of God’s revealed word, and miss out on God’s Sacraments are very problematic and must be spoken against in charity for our separated brethren so they are not harmed. We hope those in these faith systems will come to know the fullness of revealed truth in God’s one Church. You may be surprised to learn that God did make one and only one Church. The fullness of His teachings subsists only in this one Church. This one Church exists on Earth, in Purgatory, and in Heaven. True, you use your free will choosing not to be in God’s one Church, but He never asked you to reject His Church in favor of one He did not build. God only built one Church for all of His New Covenant family. To reject this is to be in grave error.

 

[ppasa316]

Hello ppasa316,

I addressed each point you raised in the very post you quoted. This shows you have an agenda and are not open to an honest discussion.

An Apostle would not have written a confession. While you continue to demand a written experience of forgiving sins in Acts, you continue to reject the words of Christ in John 20:23.
Now you point to Christ saying, “The scriptures cannot be broken.” Number one, Christ is speaking about the Old Testament, since NO writings of the New Testament existed at that time. Number two, Christ is referring to the scriptures that point to Him, the Messiah. Number three, this scripture does not support sola scriptura or private interpretation.

You take a “part” of a verse, and ignore the whole passage, in an attempt to support your theology, that is your own private interpretation. It almost appears you are going to someone, or a source, for scriptures to support what you say, but you are not getting an explanation of how to apply them to the discussion.

The list of scriptures you provided show you clearly do not understand what they say. Yet you word an ad hominem sentence in an attempt to inflame me, or so it seems. I study the scriptures, in context. I do not search for a verse, or a part of a verse, and think there’s the answer as it appears you do. I live the word as best as I can and forgive you for your insinuation that I don’t.

I ask you read the responses I posted, slowly so that you might understand the points being made. If you choose not to, I am comfortable with our posts speaking for themselves.

As for Col. 2:8, I am sharing the traditions of the Apostles as taught to them by Jesus Christ our Lord. This is another example of you pulling a verse out of context, or fitting scriptures to your theology. If we take it to mean what your interpretation is, it makes the scriptures contradict themselves and I do not believe there is a contradiction in scriptures. Scriptures are inerrant, it’s man’s private interpretation that errs.

**1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

2Th 2:15 (2:14) Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions**, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

2Th 3:6 And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.

You say there is no private interpretation. Please tell us where you get your interpretation?/QUO

I haven’t any idea where you are coming from. I have given you scriptures to support my points yet you deny the Word of God. I don’t know what kind of study you are doing but it doesn’t support your points. Listen to what you are saying. Your telling me and others that we don’t need to go to Christ to have our sins forgiven Your saying a priest can forgive them. Thats nonsense. Scripture doesn’t support that unless you interpete the Word of God to fit your way of thinking. Unbelievable, you even have the scripture from Peter on your page. What a shame. I will be praying for you brother that God would open your eyes to His Word. I know that you have a heart for God’s Word. I will leave you with one last scripture. Hope this helps James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement." God Bless

 

[MDK]

I haven’t any idea where you are coming from. I have given you scriptures to support my points yet you deny the Word of God. I don’t know what kind of study you are doing but it doesn’t support your points. Listen to what you are saying. Your telling me and others that we don’t need to go to Christ to have our sins forgiven Your saying a priest can forgive them. Thats nonsense. Scripture doesn’t support that unless you interpete the Word of God to fit your way of thinking. Unbelievable, you even have the scripture from Peter on your page. What a shame. I will be praying for you brother that God would open your eyes to His Word. I know that you have a heart for God’s Word. I will leave you with one last scripture. Hope this helps James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement." God Bless

In order for you to believe that the Scripture passages support your view, you must come to some understanding of them. Your own understandings of what they mean is done by your own interpretations, even if you choose to interpret literally or allegorically, that is your method of interpretation. It may be right and it may be wrong, but it’s yours. The meanings you derive from reading are what we refer to as your interpretations of what you’ve read.

Two people can read the exact same thing, and come away with different understandings of the meaning. This would be due to differences in interpretation of what was read.

The meanings that we understand from the same exact Scripture quotes are different than your meanings… and hence that indicates that we have a different interpretation. We Catholics though defer to the authority established by Christ to teach Christ’s revealed word, and not simply on our own interpretations (meanings derived from reading).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I haven’t any idea where you are coming from. I have given you scriptures to support my points yet you deny the Word of God. I don’t know what kind of study you are doing but it doesn’t support your points. Listen to what you are saying. Your telling me and others that we don’t need to go to Christ to have our sins forgiven Your saying a priest can forgive them. Thats nonsense. Scripture doesn’t support that unless you interpete the Word of God to fit your way of thinking. Unbelievable, you even have the scripture from Peter on your page. What a shame. I will be praying for you brother that God would open your eyes to His Word. I know that you have a heart for God’s Word. I will leave you with one last scripture. Hope this helps James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement." God Bless

You cannot, or should not, twist my words. I am here to clarify what I write. You make outrageous claims as, “…yet you deny the Word of God.” I have not denied the Word of God. I have also not added words to verses, or used partial verses out of context with the sentence they are in much less the entire passage, as you have done. If there’s any denying here, it’s you doing it.

I provided a basis for Christ giving men the authority to forgive sins, using scriptures, with line by line emphasis and explanations. You are the one fitting scriptures to your theology for the purposes of spreading anti-Catholic rhetoric and making ad hominem statements, aimed at inflaming and not to support any view.

You have also avoided any questions put forth for you to respond too. You have failed to read and consider lengthy posts, with lots of research, reflection and prayer, to come in post a short denial, with ad hominem wording, then log right out.

It is apparent you have no interest in an honest dialogue and have an agenda you feel you must stick too. When you add to scriptures, or post statements with only part of a verse to make an argument, rest assured I, or another Catholic, will be there to correct what you are doing to the scriptures.

As I stated, I am comfortable with our posts and explanations and feel you have only helped me prove my argument. My posts are clear enough to show that, even if you do not agree with the Church’s interpretation, Catholic interpretation comes from scriptures.

I have one final question for you. What is your goal on these forums?

 

[OnlyJesus]

Protestans most desidedly DO speak out specifically aginst the Catholic Church. Have you not heard of Alexander Hislop, Lorraine Boettner, or Jack Chick? Jack Hyles and his ilk frequently referred to Holy Mother Church as the “Whore of Babylon” ! Yes, anto-Catholic bigotry is alive and well! And your view of some “invisible” church is, IMHO just plain silly! If the true Church is invisible, then where did Paul send his letters?

---

HELLO! you didn’t understand that I was telling my experiences?

And SORRY no i’ve not heard of any of those people except i saw the name Chick on some website about a week ago.

Where is YOUR Christian love, it’s sure not showing today in your posts. Be careful that you don’t blaspheme by calling silly what is prompted by the Holy Spirit, “silly”.

I was not speaking of an INVISIBLE church of Christ. It’s very much tangible. It is comprised of individual believers who follow Christ and his teachings. There is one head of Christ’s church and it is Christ himself.

 

[OnlyJesus]

At the top of this forum page is a link that says HOW TO BECOME A CATHOLIC. When I click it, i get this:

Becoming Catholic is one of life’s most profound and joyous experiences. Some are blessed enough to receive this great gift while they are infants, and, over time, they recognize the enormous grace that has been bestowed on them. Others enter the Catholic fold when they are older children or adults. This tract examines the joyful process by which one becomes a Catholic.

A person is brought **into full communion with the Catholic Church **through reception of the three sacraments of Christian initiation—baptism, confirmation, and the holy Eucharist—but the process by which one becomes a Catholic can take different forms.

A person who is baptized in the Catholic Church becomes a Catholic at that moment. One’s initiation is deepened by confirmation and the Eucharist, but one becomes a Catholic at baptism. This is true for children who are baptized Catholic (and receive the other two sacraments later) and for adults who are baptized, confirmed, and receive the Eucharist at the same time.

Those who have been validly baptized outside the Church become Catholics by making a profession of the Catholic faith and being formally received into the Church. This is normally followed immediately by confirmation and the Eucharist.

Before a person is ready to be received into the Church, whether by baptism or by profession of faith, preparation is necessary. The amount and form of this preparation depends on the individual’s circumstance. The most basic division in the kind of preparation needed is between those who are unbaptized and those who have already become Christian through baptism in another church.

For adults and children who have reached the age of reason (age seven), entrance into the Church is governed by the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA), sometimes called the Order of Christian Initiation for Adults (OCIA).

Read all of that. Not one word about believing in Christ. Not one mention of GOD. No mention of the Lord. Not one word about how to be saved or the plan of salvation. Just how to become “Catholic”. How to commune with the Catholic Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

At the top of this forum page is a link that says HOW TO BECOME A CATHOLIC. When I click it, i get this:

Read all of that. Not one word about believing in Christ. Not one mention of GOD. No mention of the Lord. Not one word about how to be saved or the plan of salvation. Just how to become “Catholic”. How to commune with the Catholic Church.

What’s your point?