Protestants listen up

[racing59]

The title of this thread, leaves one to ponder,“What exactly is the main point?” Are us non-catholics supposed to listen to our catholic Christian brothers and sisters? Is it an open forum, aor is there a central theme? I remember bringing up the issue of how to dress for church; and although I did not mean for it to cause any hard feelings or controversy, there were some snide remarks rendered! I “dressed up” for church as a young man, because I felt that this was how it was supposed to be As I matured in my Christian walk(still going on,Phil 1:6), I realized it was not so much about how one dressed for church, but what condition one’s heart was in, when they were at church:thumbsup: Some would say,“WEll, you should dress up, and show respect to God!” Or the sanctuary is holy ground, and you should bring your best, when meeting your Saviour!". For those of you who have children; when they were growing up, otr even if they are grown, do yo/did you require them to “dress up”, wear formal wear, to be in your presence? Were there times when dirt or mud, cvered thar cherubic face? Did you say, “Now go wash up, and put on clean clothes, and I’ll talk with you?” In Matthew 23:25, Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for putting too much emphasis on the “outside of the cup”! For most people, when they first meet Jesus, and are ready to surrender, regardless of what they are wearing, they bring a heart that is tattered, and weary, stained with sin! Jesus does not put a lot of stock in the outside appearance, but cares about the heart! So, being human, we do put emphasis on appearances, whether it be our cars, homes, or our clothing! But please don’t make it sound like that if you don’t get “gussied up”, for church, that God will turn away from you! Yes, there should be a certain amount of decorum, and order, but not to the point of scorn or disapproval of one’s dress

I am human and subject to sin. I have been to churches were the woman are in short shorts and guys in tank top and t-shirts.I’m sorry but a woman in short shorts makes it hard to focus.Are we not obligated to keep a brother from sinning, after all we are only human. There needs to be some kind of order.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Before it’s brought up in a response, I want to address the Petra vs. Petros issue.

The Greek language uses gender nouns, pretty much the same as the Spanish language does. That is the same as the Spanish use el gato for a male cat, and la gata for a female cat, the Greek uses Petra for the feminine sense of rock and Petros for the male sense of rock. Matthew used the word Petros because the time and culture wouldn’t have accepted Peter being referred to in a feminine sense.

**G4073
πέτρα
petra
pet’-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

G4074
Πέτρος
Petros
pet’-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.**

This becomes a moot point when one considers our Lord spoke Aramaic, where there is only one word for rock and that’s Kephas.

G2786
Κηφᾶς
Kēphas
kay-fas’
Of Chaldee origin (compare [H3710]); the Rock; Cephas (that is, Kepha), surname of Peter: - Cephas.

Below, are two versions of the Aramaic to English versions of Matthew 16:18.

**(Etheridge) Also I say unto thee, that thou art Kipha, and upon this rock will I build my church, and the gates of Sheul shall not prevail against her.

(Murdock) Also I say to thee, that thou art Cephas: and upon this rock, I will build my church: and the gates of death shall not triumph over it.**

 

[1beleevr]

Racing59: I wholeheartedly agree, that there should be some sort of order; but let’s be careful not to go too far in either direction The House of God, is not to be mocked, either by someone dressed too provocatively, nor overdressed! What type of message does it send, if, for instance, a young woman is dressed in something so revealing, that other congregants are distracted to the point of missing the main point of being there to fellowship and worship with our God! I personally believe that the House of God is not the building itself(it could be a tent) but the believers therein! But really, what would be the point in requiring, or demanding that everyone wear a suit and tie, and fancy dresses to church?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jesus said:
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Someone earlier posted scriptures about the eunach’s salvation experience…there was no building, no confirmation sacrament etc.
It was GOD who sent a messenger to send Philip to the eunuch.

Acts 8
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Then:

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. **And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. **

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Such a simple act. God knows those who search. God sends his earthly hands and feet, i.e. The Body of Christ, to firstly preach Christ. And then the baptism.

There was no pomp and circumstance, no robes, no baptismal pool, no congregation… nothing but the simplicity that is the gospel of Christ under the direction of God, the believer’s profession in Christ as Son of God, and then the baptism no doubt in a river, stream or pond, whatever was available.

OnlyJesus,

Why are you bringing up a subject and when it’s responded too, you immediately jump to another subject without responding to the responses given? I sincerely would like to hear your view of my responses to the topic of “cornerstone” vs. “rock” subject you brought up.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In the above passage, Christ is specifically addressing His Apostles on the subject of the authority of His Church. When He tell them, “…where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”, He is speaking of assemblies gathered in the name and authority of Christ; and in the unity of the Church of Christ, or eccumenical councils. As He speaks to those He chose and ordained, He is telling them how it will work for those of Apostolic succession.

As for the story of the eunuch. Are you trying to say that proves a Church is invisible? How did St. Paul send letters to an invisible Church? Where were those sacred writings stored in the invisible Church?

The eunuch made a confession of faith, St. Philip confirmed the eunuch’s belief and then He baptized the eunuch. There’s more sacrament to that story than you realize. There was reading of scriptures, liturgy of the word, and preaching of the Gospel, Jesus, and a baptism!

As for the pomp, robes or baptismal pool, you are wrong. St. Philip was surely clothed and an ordained man of Christ by Christ, there was the liturgy of the word, a homily, and the scriptures even tell us the was a baptismal pool.

Now, before bringing up another subject, please address the ones being responded too.

 

[1beleevr]

Prodigal: Once again, a great post! But, let’s fast forward to the 21st century. Let’s say, that myself, and maybe Racing 59, Only Jesus, and Radical are together, worshipping, reading the Bible, and praying for others! Would Jesus be there with us? And then, say we picked up and went to the mall, where we met Heiscomingintheclouds Together, the four of us began evagelizing, and witnessing to others about Jesus! Would He be there with and for us? And in regards to Pillip and the Ethiopian; was this “body of water” a pond, a lake, a stream, or maybe a large puddle? And do we really know how Phillip was dressed? Was it a plain cotton robe, with sandals, or was he ostentatiously dressed, similar to the Pharisees/Saducees? Was there an audience, or just them two? Could we say that this experience was an example of how Jesus will meet you wherever you are! That is the message that I get from it:thumbsup:

 

[racing59]

Racing59: I wholeheartedly agree, that there should be some sort of order; but let’s be careful not to go too far in either direction The House of God, is not to be mocked, either by someone dressed too provocatively, nor overdressed! What type of message does it send, if, for instance, a young woman is dressed in something so revealing, that other congregants are distracted to the point of missing the main point of being there to fellowship and worship with our God! I personally believe that the House of God is not the building itself(it could be a tent) but the believers therein! But really, what would be the point in requiring, or demanding that everyone wear a suit and tie, and fancy dresses to church?

Wouldn’t you put on a suit and tie to eat at the White house or go out to dinner at a fancy restaurant? Why shouldn’t we get dress up for the Table of the Lord?

 

[racing59]

OnlyJesus,

Why are you bringing up a subject and when it’s responded too, you immediately jump to another subject without responding to the responses given? I sincerely would like to hear your view of my responses to the topic of “cornerstone” vs. “rock” subject you brought up.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In the above passage, Christ is specifically addressing His Apostles on the subject of the authority of His Church. When He tell them, “…where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”, He is speaking of assemblies gathered in the name and authority of Christ; and in the unity of the Church of Christ, or eccumenical councils. As He speaks to those He chose and ordained, He is telling them how it will work for those of Apostolic succession.

As for the story of the eunuch. Are you trying to say that proves a Church is invisible? How did St. Paul send letters to an invisible Church? Where were those sacred writings stored in the invisible Church?

The eunuch made a confession of faith, St. Philip confirmed the eunuch’s belief and then He baptized the eunuch. There’s more sacrament to that story than you realize. There was reading of scriptures, liturgy of the word, and preaching of the Gospel, Jesus, and a baptism!

As for the pomp, robes or baptismal pool, you are wrong. St. Philip was surely clothed and an ordained man of Christ by Christ, there was the liturgy of the word, a homily, and the scriptures even tell us the was a baptismal pool.

Now, before bringing up another subject, please address the ones being responded too.

Sorry I interrupted!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal: Once again, a great post! But, let’s fast forward to the 21st century. Let’s say, that myself, and maybe Racing 59, Only Jesus, and Radical are together, worshipping, reading the Bible, and praying for others! Would Jesus be there with us? And then, say we picked up and went to the mall, where we met Heiscomingintheclouds Together, the four of us began evagelizing, and witnessing to others about Jesus! Would He be there with and for us? And in regards to Pillip and the Ethiopian; was this “body of water” a pond, a lake, a stream, or maybe a large puddle? And do we really know how Phillip was dressed? Was it a plain cotton robe, with sandals, or was he ostentatiously dressed, similar to the Pharisees/Saducees? Was there an audience, or just them two? Could we say that this experience was an example of how Jesus will meet you wherever you are! That is the message that I get from it:thumbsup:

Would one of you be ordained? St. Philip was ordained. For the purposes of the baptism, yes Jesus would be there. As for reading scriptures, how do you know it’s the Holy Spirit guiding the interpretation? It took an authority to explain the scriptures to the Ethiopian, who was reading scriptures, but admitted he could not understand them unless someone explained them to him. St. Philip was that authority. Did these two make any eccumenical decisions? No they did not.

Should we share the good news within us? Most assuredly yes, by our word and example. Does that in itself ordain either of us to have authority within His Church? Can we now run out and make eccumenical declarations? No, we cannot, or we shouldn’t.

**Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

Act 6:6 These they set before the apostles: and they praying, imposed hands upon them.

Act 13:3 Then they fasting and praying and imposing their hands upon them, sent them away.

Act 14:23 (14:22) And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.

2Ti 1:6 For which cause I admonish thee that thou stir up the grace of God which is in thee by the imposition of my hands.

Tit 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee:**

Now, for your insinuations about being ostentatiously dressed. Aren’t you the one saying it’s what is in one’s heart and not how they are dressed? How is looking at someone you consider dressed “ostentatiously” and making a determination about that person’s piety any different than one that looks upon someone casually dressed and making a determination of that person’s piety? It appears to be a double standard to me.

Robes were a part of a priest’s attire, from Genesis to Revelations.

 

[1beleevr]

Racing59: I can’t say as I would necessarily wear an suit and tie, but I would dress appropriately! And who am I tring to impress? Would the food taste better if I was dressed up, as opposed to being casually dressy(Dockers+button down) Are you familiar with the story of Mephibosheth in 2Samuel 9? Did David require Mephibosheth to dress up to eat at the King’s table? Here was a man who was crippled in both feet, and referred to himself as a “dead dog”! Ever listen to, or sing a song, entitled,“Just as I Am?” When you go out in public, are you dressing for others, for God or for yourself? Every Sunday, I have a ministry at a skilled nursing facility; most residents, being in their 80’s&90’s! I some times wear shorts, but remind them that we are in the House of the Lord, even though we meet in a dining facility! The point that I have been trying to make, is this:God didn’t create you, with a tuxedo on! He has seen you at your best and your worst, and does His best work when you are at your worst! 2Corinthians 12:8-9 Hey, if you want to, or feel the need or obligation to dress up, by all means, do it! I have come to a place where, because I am accepted by God, I can be rejected by man! It really doesn’t matter, what others think about how I am dressed! I am just saying that I believe we put too much emphasis on it!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Sorry I interrupted!

You can only interrupt if you speak before both sides have completely spoken their view. It appears some only ask questions, in an appearance of objections, and when responded too, change the topic without addressing the response given.

 

[CWBetts]

You can only interrupt if you speak before both sides have completely spoken their view. It appears some only ask questions, in an appearance of objections, and when responded too, change the topic without addressing the response given.

There has so much doctrinal dancing going on in this forum, I thought it was a nightclub!

 

[OnlyJesus]

Why are you bringing up a subject and when it’s responded too, you immediately jump to another subject without responding to the responses given? I sincerely would like to hear your view of my responses to the topic of “cornerstone” vs. “rock” subject you brought up.

dear prodigal, i can’t respond to all that you say and post, health permits my sitting for brief periods so i am here and then away from the computer…that and it takes me a while to look up verses, then another while to try to make a point. By the time i make a point, there are pages and pages of new posts to read so the more i participate the further behind i seem to get Try not to hold this against me ok and so i’m off again for another bit. Thanks for listening.

 

[1beleevr]

Prodigal: Oops, you followed up a good post, with a stinker! You are so anal, that you don’t believe that Christian brothers, and sisters can sit around and talk about Jesus, without one or more of us being ordainedWhat is the point of being a Christian, if you can’t share the Good News with others, saved or not?(Luke 11:33) And there is no double standard as regrds the dress of Phillip! Would it have mattered if he were just wearing underwear? What was important, was, that another soul was added to the Kingdom; proof that Jesus wil meet you wherever you are:thumbsup: Jesus never said,“My words are only for the ears of those who have been ordained!” And piety aside, it doesn’t really matter how someone is dressed, it’s about winning souls to Christ! And you can’t convince me that Matthew 28:19-20 does not apply to ALL Christians

 

[1beleevr]

CW: And it would appear that all sides are dancing; the floor is jam-packed! And while we dance, people all over the world are dying without Christ, dying to know Christ, and wondering why God’s people won’t come and tell them about Jesus!

 

[racing59]

OnlyJesus,

Why are you bringing up a subject and when it’s responded too, you immediately jump to another subject without responding to the responses given? I sincerely would like to hear your view of my responses to the topic of “cornerstone” vs. “rock” subject you brought up.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In the above passage, Christ is specifically addressing His Apostles on the subject of the authority of His Church. When He tell them, “…where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”, He is speaking of assemblies gathered in the name and authority of Christ; and in the unity of the Church of Christ, or eccumenical councils. As He speaks to those He chose and ordained, He is telling them how it will work for those of Apostolic succession.

As for the story of the eunuch. Are you trying to say that proves a Church is invisible? How did St. Paul send letters to an invisible Church? Where were those sacred writings stored in the invisible Church?

The eunuch made a confession of faith, St. Philip confirmed the eunuch’s belief and then He baptized the eunuch. There’s more sacrament to that story than you realize. There was reading of scriptures, liturgy of the word, and preaching of the Gospel, Jesus, and a baptism!

As for the pomp, robes or baptismal pool, you are wrong. St. Philip was surely clothed and an ordained man of Christ by Christ, there was the liturgy of the word, a homily, and the scriptures even tell us the was a baptismal pool.

Now, before bringing up another subject, please address the ones being responded too.

**I believe the problem here is Chair of Peter. Most protestants believe the Rock Jesus was taking about was Peters faith in Jesus being Son of God. Catholics bring up a valid argument with history on there side. In talking for myself, God has not reveiled to me what he has you.If I except the Chair of Peter then I would have to follow the Catholic faith 110%. Many Christians are not ready for that yet, it rocks there comfort zone. Many think to follow the Chair of Peter would be like being a robot in every area of their Christian life.We have a hard time grasping this concept because the U.S. was built on individualism and rejection of the Church in England. I hope this explains some of other churches stance.
Peace be with you
**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

dear prodigal, i can’t respond to all that you say and post, health permits my sitting for brief periods so i am here and then away from the computer…that and it takes me a while to look up verses, then another while to try to make a point. By the time i make a point, there are pages and pages of new posts to read so the more i participate the further behind i seem to get Try not to hold this against me ok and so i’m off again for another bit. Thanks for listening.

I can understand health issues and you are in my prayers.

I just kindly ask that you allow a discussion on the topics you bring up before posting a new topic.

I’ve told you, I frequent a Church of God forum, where I am the only Catholic and the majority of their posters are pastors. It seems to be a tactic they use on me alot, that is changing the topic often or presenting a laundry list of objections, that can hardly be fully discussed in a single post on this type fora. Those type tactics seem to be an attempt to simply overwhelm an opposing view, which is not honest attempts to discuss, in my opinion.

I do not hope to convert anyone. That is only something the Holy Spirit can do. All I hope to achieve is for Protestants to recognize that Catholic beliefs, doctrines and teachings come from an interpretation of scriptures, even if they do not agree with the interpretation. As a Protestant who converted to Catholicism, I can see where Protestants get most of their beliefs when they present scriptures, even though I don’t agree with their interpretation. I qualified that statement with “most of their beliefs” because there are a few Protestant practices that are not scriptural, but Protestants never admit it and most times will change the subject.

As we all seek God’s truth, to the best of our comprehension as men, we occasionally have to empty out our cups, that we’ve filled, and ask that God fill them up again with what He wants in the cup.

Last night in Bible study (yes, Catholics have Bible study), we discussed some of the differences between Protestants and Catholics. The subject of a Protestant accusation that the original early Church was not a Catholic Church came up. Some Protestants claim it was Constantine that created Catholicism. The problem with that accusation is the writings of the early Church fathers, specifically those before Constantine’s time. If the early Church was more like Protestant Churches, than the Catholic Church, those writings would reflect that. If you read and research the earliest Church fathers, prior to Constantine’s time, it’s easy to see who the early Christian Church was more like, when compared to today’s Churches.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal: Oops, you followed up a good post, with a stinker! You are so anal, that you don’t believe that Christian brothers, and sisters can sit around and talk about Jesus, without one or more of us being ordainedWhat is the point of being a Christian, if you can’t share the Good News with others, saved or not?(Luke 11:33) And there is no double standard as regrds the dress of Phillip! Would it have mattered if he were just wearing underwear? What was important, was, that another soul was added to the Kingdom; proof that Jesus wil meet you wherever you are:thumbsup: Jesus never said,“My words are only for the ears of those who have been ordained!” And piety aside, it doesn’t really matter how someone is dressed, it’s about winning souls to Christ! And you can’t convince me that Matthew 28:19-20 does not apply to ALL Christians

You are mistaken. Christian brothers and sisters most assuredly can, and should, sit around and speak about Jesus. We are all called to a royal preisthood to share the good news. What we cannot do is make eccumenical declarations, or take an authority upon ourselves to go out and start another Church (denomination). Christ built a Church. Man cannot improve what He built.

The problem with private interpretation of scriptures is context. Not only do we need to recognize the message being given in a larger context by the passage, or book, a particular verse is located in, we have to look at specifically who Christ was speaking too. There were times He addressed the multitudes and other times He was only speaking to those men He chose and ordained. We are not all called to be Apostles, prophets, doctors or priests, etc. etc. There is nothing wrong with be a layperson.

We can learn why those with Apostolic authority do what they do by reading what Christ said specifically to those His ordained and gave authority too. We can read and understand and use those teachings as an example for our own spiritual growth, and to be able to share the good news properly and in order.

In Matthew 28:18 - 20, He is speaking with His Apostles, the eleven. As we both say, we are to share the good news with all, but laypersons lack the authority to impose hands and grant another an office in the Church or make eccumenical declarations. When Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven to Peter, He told him what he bound and loosed on earth would be made so in heaven. This was repeated when He told them to take offenses to the Church. You and I, as laypersons do not hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven in that we cannot bind or loose on earth. There was clearly an authority within His Church.

I’m going to try and articulate the double-standard I see in those who are ostentatiously dressed vs. those who dress casually a little better. I agree with you on one’s attire when they go to Church. Some dress as best as they can afford, and some dress to be seen by the people. There are wrongs on both sides of this issue. All have sinned and come short. We cannot see what’s in another’s heart no matter how they dress. There is only one who can do that. To look down on someone, whether one wears a robe or jeans is judging by an appearance.

 

[1beleevr]

Prodigal: Although we differ in our opinions and beliefs, the one thing we share is our faith in and belief in Jesus! When I share my faith, whether it is with felloew Christians, or non-believers, I am not looking to make ecumenical statements, or start a new denomination! Just because I was raised in a Southern Baptist home, doesn’t mean that at 42 years as a Christian, I espouse their beliefs or doctrines! Iam, for all intensive purposes, denomination blind! When I meet someone new, I don’t ask,"So, what religion are you?"It doesn’t matter; I just want to talk about Jesus, if the subject presents itself! As to the discussion about dress codes, or no dress codes, it started with my discussion,2 years ago with a catholic friend if mine! During our discussion, which was quite pleasant, actually, he asked me how I dressed for church. I replied, that I wore either Dockers or Levi’s, and a variety of shirts! “You ought to show more respect for God and your pastor,” he said! I didn’t want to get into a long, drawn-out argument, so I simply said,"George, I don’t think God really cares whether I wear a suit and tie or Levi’s; He is glad I am there! I know that I inflame your senses, with my seemingly arrogant attitude, but rest assured, that I have the utmost respect for everyone in this forum:thumbsup: This is because I have the Peace of Christ, which enables me to have more patience, and discernment! The old adage about “water off of a duck’s back” applies to me, when I feel that what someone is saying is either not relevant, or sounds too good to be true! I may be part of the separated brethren(catholic terminology) but I know that I am not separated from Christ, and am a proud member of the Bride of Christ! And as for the sheep and the goats, let’s just say, for me; b-a-a-a-a-a! Thank you for all of your good work in reading, and researching! You would probably be good at street ministry; we go out twice a month, knocking on stranger’s doors, praying, evangelizing, giving them food, and generally showing them God’s love:thumbsup:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal: Although we differ in our opinions and beliefs, the one thing we share is our faith in and belief in Jesus! When I share my faith, whether it is with felloew Christians, or non-believers, I am not looking to make ecumenical statements, or start a new denomination! Just because I was raised in a Southern Baptist home, doesn’t mean that at 42 years as a Christian, I espouse their beliefs or doctrines! Iam, for all intensive purposes, denomination blind! When I meet someone new, I don’t ask,"So, what religion are you?"It doesn’t matter; I just want to talk about Jesus, if the subject presents itself! As to the discussion about dress codes, or no dress codes, it started with my discussion,2 years ago with a catholic friend if mine! During our discussion, which was quite pleasant, actually, he asked me how I dressed for church. I replied, that I wore either Dockers or Levi’s, and a variety of shirts! “You ought to show more respect for God and your pastor,” he said! I didn’t want to get into a long, drawn-out argument, so I simply said,"George, I don’t think God really cares whether I wear a suit and tie or Levi’s; He is glad I am there! I know that I inflame your senses, with my seemingly arrogant attitude, but rest assured, that I have the utmost respect for everyone in this forum:thumbsup: This is because I have the Peace of Christ, which enables me to have more patience, and discernment! The old adage about “water off of a duck’s back” applies to me, when I feel that what someone is saying is either not relevant, or sounds too good to be true! I may be part of the separated brethren(catholic terminology) but I know that I am not separated from Christ, and am a proud member of the Bride of Christ! And as for the sheep and the goats, let’s just say, for me; b-a-a-a-a-a! Thank you for all of your good work in reading, and researching! You would probably be good at street ministry; we go out twice a month, knocking on stranger’s doors, praying, evangelizing, giving them food, and generally showing them God’s love:thumbsup:

When the dress discussions come up, I try and convey that I believe Christ would rather have them in His house dressed in jeans as opposed to them not being there at all. If that message doesn’t get through, I ask them a question.

If we had a man in his 30s show up to our Church, sporting a beard, long hair, wearing a t-shirt, jeans with holes and sandals, would we welcome him into the Church or turn him away?..

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And as for the sheep and the goats, let’s just say, for me; b-a-a-a-a-a!

I understand your point above, but do you realize what sound a goat makes?

Thank you for all of your good work in reading, and researching! You would probably be good at street ministry; we go out twice a month, knocking on stranger’s doors, praying, evangelizing, giving them food, and generally showing them God’s love:thumbsup:

As a daily prayer, I ask that God reveal Christ to me in everyone person I encounter each day. I also ask that people can see, hear and feel the presence of Christ through me.

I volunteer at the local food bank twice a week, every two weeks (that’s as often as they have it). I’ve also took a new vocation late in life. I used to be in sales (can’t you tell?) and found it unrewarding a couple of years ago. I quit and prayed alot for God to lead me. I ended up in EMT school, where I was the oldest guy in the class, even older than the instructor. Now I am an EMT and considering Paramedic school. I like it alot. I wished I had done this 20 years ago.

We don’t have to go door to door to “evangelize”. We should be “evangelizing” through our words and deeds 24/7. At every opportunity.

Before someone throws faith vs. faith plus works at me, let me explain. The works required of Christians is our response to God’s love. Reading scriptures, attending Church, praying, or acts of charity to our fellow man, etc. are all works. Faith without works is dead, just as works without faith is dead.