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Hisalone
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Confess one to another your sins. That doesnt sound like a confessional booth to me. Confess one to another your sins sounds like we can forgive each others sins. Confess one to another your sins
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Hisalone
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Are all beleivers the arc of the New Covenant?
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Hisalone
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The apostles did know it. Remeber when they fought amoung themselves who would sit at the right hand of Jesus?
Im twisting nothing just demonstrating that his dogma of “pope” came after Peter.
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Hisalone
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Gave us. Gave who? Paul and all in the Church at Corinth that who Paul was writting to.
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rinnie
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Tell me hisalone how in the world could the dogma of Pope come after Peter. Please you have outdone yourself on this thread this time.
everyone knows that Peter translates into Kephas. Kephas translates into Rock, Rock means Father. Pope translated into greek means Papa or Father. Give me a break.
The only reason we call the Pope that name because it is another word or Father, Papa, Peter, Rock, etc. And the person who gave Simon the name Peter the name of Father was Jesus Christ!
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Prodigal_Son1
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Ok Hisalone, this seems to be an admission of “oral tradition” plus scriptures. If it’s not, please explain how it’s not.
Now we’re back to the original question, that no one has answered yet. We have a lot of Churches, speaking the “word of God”, but clearly giving different messages. All claim guidance of the Holy Spirit. They can’t all be right because of the contradictions. How are we to discern which one is speaking the fulness of truth? Please provide scriptures that show us clearly how to know we are following the right spoken word.
The founding fathers of this nation wrote the constitution, then they established a legislative body to interpret the document. Without the legislatitive body we would have different interpretations and it would have resulted in chaos. Why wouldn’t an all powerful, all knowing God have done the same as mere men?
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rinnie
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How am I supposed to know hisalone. We as Catholics believe it. Is the ark of the covenant not where God himself would dwell. Do you believe that Jesus CHrist became Man and dwelled in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Do all believer’s believe that Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary. I would sure hope so. If not they would not be believers now would they?
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rinnie
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I can’t believe she said this one?
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ppasa316
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I am trying to understand your statements. Can you give me scriptures where Jesus said that we need to confess our sins to a priest.
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rinnie
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I gotta give her back to guanophore. Guan is the only one who has the patience for her!
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Prodigal_Son1
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Christ first spoke those words to Peter, when He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. The reference to the keys is prefigured in Isaiah 22:22 and 1 Chronicles 9. When we see the keys of the house of David, we have to realize David sat upon a throne established by God, with a promise of a new leader in the New Testament.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
The second time Christ spoke of “binding and loosing” He was speaking only to His Apostles, the authority of His Church, with the authority to make eccumenical decisions. If we consider the order of giving authority, it seems the Lord was setting up a hierarchy in His Church.
How do you view the “binding and loosing”? How can we ALL have that authority? Remember, both times He spoke those words scriptures clearly show us He was speaking in the presence of His Apostles only. These words were not spoken to the multitudes.
When Christ knew He was establishing the Church and the events of His crucifixion were to take place, why would Christ tell the multitudes to observe and do whatsoever was spoken from the chair of Moses?
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.
Why didn’t Christ tell the multitudes to do whatsover scriptures told them to do?
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ppasa316
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Us = Is all who turns away from sin and follows Christ. God calls all believers to proclaim the gospel of reconcilliation to others. God wills to be reconciled with sinners.
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rinnie
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I do we all do, we have been, but you refuse to listen. The office of Peter has the power of binding and loosening on earth.
Feed my lambs= teach the word of God to those who are not familiar with it.
Tend my Sheep= direct, control and discipline the members of the church.
Matthew 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen to the Church then treat him as you would a Gentile or tax collector.
You either listen to the teachings of the Church or you don’t! The Church has confessed sin since the time of Jesus Christ.
John 16:7 But I tell you the truth it is better for you that I go for if I do not go the advocate will not come to you. But if I go I will send him to you,
Before his final departure from active ministry he made it clear that He was leaving a VISIBLE reliable authority to govern HIS CHURCH.
Feed my Sheep= increase the knowledge and wisdom of the members of the Church as they are ready to receive new information. The jurisdiction of Jesus is assigned to the Apostles by extension to their successors who remain IN UNION WITH THE OFFICE OF PETER.
luke 22:29 I FOR MY PART ASSIGN TO YOU THE DOMINION MY FATHER HAS ASSIGNED TO ME.
What more can I say. We listen to the teachings handed down to us from the apostles. The Church. We can prove apostolic succession. Jesus made it that way so we would be on the right road.
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ppasa316
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Jesus didn’t give authority to forgive sins to the apostles. What he was telling them was that we all can declare what is bound or loosed in heaven. This is the same as John 20:23. All this must be understood in context to 18:15-17 where christ laid out the instructions for dealing with sin in the church. This means that all believers acting in accord with God’s Word, has the authority to declare if someone is forgiven or unforgiven. To sum it up. Jesus did not give sole authority to Peter but to all.
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rinnie
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Yes he does and we must also reconcille ourself with the Church. How do you do that if you are in a state of sin. Where did God give you the Power that he gave Peter and the Apostles to bind and loose? Now its your turn show me the scripture that gives you the Power to bind and loose?
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Prodigal_Son1
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Hey ppasa316,
The inspired word of God tells us that Christ told the Apostles, the authority of His Church, they had the power to forgive or retain sins. Priests are of Apostolic succession. Christ clearly setup an authoritavtive Church, with the keys to the kingdom of heaven, the power to bind and loose on earth and the authority to forgive and retain sins. How much more do you need for Christ to have said for clarification?
I assume you believe in the Trinity, because Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Yet, Christ did not speak of a “Trinity”. Why does this teaching need no clarification?
Let’s look at another belief you’ve espoused on these forums, sola scriptura. Everytime we’ve asked for scriptural support for this belief, we’ve seen scriptures with “word of God” presented to support READING scriptures as if the word of God is only written, yet scriptures show us the words spoken by Christ tell us it is a spoken word.
**Mat 4:4 Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.
Luk 5:1 And it came to pass, that when the multitudes pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Genesareth,
Luk 8:21 Who answering, said to them: My mother and my brethren are they who hear the word of God and do it.
Luk 11:28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God was spoken; and the scripture cannot be broken:**
Rom 10:17 Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.
Christ did speak about the reading of the written word, but it doesn’t seem to support that the scriptures are the sole authority because they can be misinterpreted, or needed to be explained.
Mat 22:29 And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the scriptures the things that were concerning him.
Luk 24:28 And they drew nigh to the town whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther.
Luk 24:29 But they constrained him, saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them.
Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread and blessed and brake and gave to them.
Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened: and they knew him. And he vanished out of their sight.
Luk 24:32 And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in the way and opened to us the scriptures?
Luk 24:44 And he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled which are written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then he opened their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures: for you think in them to have life everlasting. And the same are they that give testimony of me.
All these examples given about having scriptures explained through the spoken word and misinterpretations, and yet you still believe scriptures are the sole authority, as interpreted by individuals claiming guidance by the Holy Spirit, yet with conflicting interpretations. Why is it you don’t need the same clarification for sola scriptura as you do for other things taught by Christ? This just doesn’t make sense to some of us.
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ppasa316
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Paul did not say to reconcile with any church but to Christ. That is what the ministry of reconciliation is all about. We are to reconcile sinners to Christ. God does not give any one the power to bind or loose. What we are doing is making a declaration of what is done already in Heaven. The church is to declare the judgment of heaven based on the principles of God’s Word, they can be sure heaven is in accord. In other words whatever they “bind or loose on earth is already bound or loosed in heaven.” We are just making a declaration, not actually binding or loosing anyone from their sins.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I’m afraid that I cannot agree with you on this ppasa316. There are times that the inspired word of God shows us things that were only spoken to the Apostles and other times things were spoken to the mulitudes, who did not receive the same authority through the things Christ taught to all of them.
If it pertained to all of us, we have some who have loosed divorce, abortion, how it’s unnessary to attend Church on the Sabbath, and other teachings against the commandments of God.
In Matthew 18:15 - 17 He again was speaking an explanation to how the authority of His Church could make eccumenical decisions. Was He speaking to the multitudes in Matthew 18?
Mat 18:1 At that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who, thinkest thou, is the greater in the kingdom of heaven?
As I said, I cannot agree with you because I don’t believe you are reading scriptures in context of who Christ was addressing with the different topics He spoke of in scriptures.
He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, with the authority to bind and loose. I, nor you, hold the keys, nor can we bind and loose. If every individual could bind and loose, Christianity would be nothing but chaos and confusion and those traits are not of God.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Confession is reconciliation to Christ. Confession is confessing sins, of sinners, and being reconciled to Christ.
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ppasa316
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I don’t know how many times I have given you scriptures to support my statements. If you don’t believe them then don’t respond. But you are just wasting time. Move on to someone else or go to another thread.
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