Protestants listen up

[ServantofChrist]

CW: Are we splitting hairs here? To most of us Christians, isn’t paradise Heaven? If indeed Jesus said, “You will be with Me in paradise”, where is Jesus?

Read Revelation 2:6…this tells you where paradise is…as Jesus said “It is finished” If you also read about heaven in Revelation, you will see there are 2 trees of life

 

[1beleevr]

Oh, come on now, rinnie, you know good and well, that Paul was converted after Christ died; it was the thief on the cross, who asked for and received mercy! Still waiting for proof of Mary Magdelene being stoned! Gotta run to the store, wife gave me a list!

 

[racing59]

Oh, come on now, rinnie, you know good and well, that Paul was converted after Christ died; it was the thief on the cross, who asked for and received mercy! Still waiting for proof of Mary Magdelene being stoned! Gotta run to the store, wife gave me a list!

Thief on the cross was not an Apostle or a disciple until the cross.Also paradise that Jesus told him he would be in the ancient Jews saw this as the Bosom of Abraham, a third realm.Heaven was not open until Jesus raised from the dead and ascended into Heaven. I believe the first person to recognize Jesus as God was the Virgin Mary. I’ll have to what for rinnie to see if I guess right.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I believe there is One who suffered much more than Mary did…His name is above all names.
He said “I am the Way…” He said “…He is the ONLY mediator between us and the Father”

Hello servant,

If you had read through the entire thread, I believe you would see no one here disputes there is only one mediator.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I am a brother in Christ that carries my cross like Jesus said we must do if we want to follow Him. I do not think people understand the blessings they are missing out on that God has for us by not reading His Word and letting the Holy Spirit bring It to life. I do not believe anything that is not in Scripture or does not line itself up with it…your focus should be on Christ and Christ alone.

Where is it written that scripture is all one needs?

Why would God inspire it be written that the Church is the pillar and ground of truth?

Why would God inspire it be written that the manifold wisdom of God may be made known through the Church?

 

[racing59]

Read Revelation 2:6…this tells you where paradise is…as Jesus said “It is finished” If you also read about heaven in Revelation, you will see there are 2 trees of life

I now Revelation like the back of my hand. There is only one Tree of Life, which is the same Tree of Life that was blocked after the fall of Adam and Eve. It is the Wisdom of God Proverb 3:13-18. “It is finished” was the Passover Supper Christ instituted in the upstairs room. There were four cups of wine, which the only drank three in the upstairs room. He finished the fourth cup on the Cross, then said “It is Finished”. At that very same moment the last bloody animal sacrifice for the Passover was finished in the Temple by the High Priest.The Passover started in the upstairs room and was finished on the Cross.Rinnie is right you must know history to understand what is being said.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Read Revelation 2:6…this tells you where paradise is…as Jesus said “It is finished” If you also read about heaven in Revelation, you will see there are 2 trees of life

Hello again servant,

I really recommend you read through the thread before posting. Since you’re new, I’ll repost what was happening when Jesus said, “It is finished”.

**The Passover meal was part of the covenant from God and men. It required an active participation. In reading Exodus 12:17, we see this was to be done perpetually, for ever. To reject the Last Supper as the adjustment to, or replacement of, or more specifically a fulfillment of, the covenant command of God, means we should still be celebrating the Passover meal as prescribed by God.

We know from Jeremiah 31:31, a new covenant was prophesied. This prophesy was brought to mind in the New Testament, in a letter from St. Paul to the Hebrews 8:7 – 12.

The prescription of the Passover meal was detailed and clear from the Lord, as written in Exodus 12.

A lamb without blemish was to be slaughtered at twilight, eaten with unleavened bread, the lamb’s blood was to be sprinkled on the doorposts with hyssop, none of the lamb’s bones were to be broken, and this ordinance was to be celebrated perpetually.

The Jewish Passover meal consisted of:

1. The Festival Blessing – Drink from the 1st cup of wine.
2. Passover Narrative and Little Hallel (Psalms 113) – Drink from 2nd cup of wine.
3. Main Meal: roasted lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs and spices – Drink from 3rd cup of wine.
4. Great Hallel (Psalms 114 – 118) and the drinking of the 4th cup of wine, and closed when presiding priest or host says the phrase, “TEL TELESTI” which is interpreted as “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.

Now let’s look at the Lord’s Supper that occurred during the celebration of the Passover, or Seder, meal.

3 of the Gospel authors told us about the Lord’s Supper. Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about it. All 3 say He gave the cup, of the new covenant, to the Apostles and told them to drink, but it does not tell us that Christ, the High Priest, drank of the cup. Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18, tells us that, during the Passover meal, Christ announced He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until he drank it in the Kingdom of God. After making this announcement, Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 tell us, “Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.” After singing a hymn, the great Hallel, they went out to the garden, without the High Priest closing the celebration, not only not closing the celebration, but declaring He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He drank it in the Kingdom of God. He did not say, “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
In the garden, our Lord prayed to the father to let this cup be passed from Him, if it was the Father’s will. Matthew 22:44 tells us that Christ prayed this 3 times. What cup was Christ praying be passed from Him? I believe it was the 4th cup that closed the Passover meal, which was fulfilled with the Lord’s Supper.

When God made the covenant with Moses, Moses asked who to tell had told him of the covenant, Exodus 3:13 – 14. God told Moses, “I am, who I am.”

When Christ was arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for and they replied, “Jesus of Nazareth”. In John 18:5, Jesus told them, “I AM he”. When those arresting Him heard this, they went backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).

Mark 15:22 – 24 told us that Christ was offered wine drugged with myrrh, but He did not drink it.**

John 19:28 – 30 explains that Our Lord, aware that everything was now finished, in order that scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst”. Hearing this, they took a sponge and dipped it in common wine, sour wine, fruit of the vine, and held it up to His mouth with hyssop. After taking the wine, our Lord said, “It is finished”, bowed His head and gave up the spirit.

John 19:33 – 38 told us that our Lord’s legs were not broken, so that scripture might be fulfilled.

Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.

Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.

 

[ServantofChrist]

Hello again servant,

I really recommend you read through the thread before posting. Since you’re new, I’ll repost what was happening when Jesus said, “It is finished”.

**The Passover meal was part of the covenant from God and men. It required an active participation. In reading Exodus 12:17, we see this was to be done perpetually, for ever. To reject the Last Supper as the adjustment to, or replacement of, or more specifically a fulfillment of, the covenant command of God, means we should still be celebrating the Passover meal as prescribed by God.

We know from Jeremiah 31:31, a new covenant was prophesied. This prophesy was brought to mind in the New Testament, in a letter from St. Paul to the Hebrews 8:7 – 12.

The prescription of the Passover meal was detailed and clear from the Lord, as written in Exodus 12.

A lamb without blemish was to be slaughtered at twilight, eaten with unleavened bread, the lamb’s blood was to be sprinkled on the doorposts with hyssop, none of the lamb’s bones were to be broken, and this ordinance was to be celebrated perpetually.

The Jewish Passover meal consisted of:

1. The Festival Blessing – Drink from the 1st cup of wine.
2. Passover Narrative and Little Hallel (Psalms 113) – Drink from 2nd cup of wine.
3. Main Meal: roasted lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs and spices – Drink from 3rd cup of wine.
4. Great Hallel (Psalms 114 – 118) and the drinking of the 4th cup of wine, and closed when presiding priest or host says the phrase, “TEL TELESTI” which is interpreted as “It is finished**” or “It is consummated”.

Now let’s look at the Lord’s Supper that occurred during the celebration of the Passover, or Seder, meal.

3 of the Gospel authors told us about the Lord’s Supper. Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about it. All 3 say He gave the cup, of the new covenant, to the Apostles and told them to drink, but it does not tell us that Christ, the High Priest, drank of the cup. Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18, tells us that, during the Passover meal, Christ announced He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until he drank it in the Kingdom of God. After making this announcement, Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 tell us, “Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.” After singing a hymn, the great Hallel, they went out to the garden, without the High Priest closing the celebration, not only not closing the celebration, but declaring He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He drank it in the Kingdom of God. He did not say, “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
In the garden, our Lord prayed to the father to let this cup be passed from Him, if it was the Father’s will. Matthew 22:44 tells us that Christ prayed this 3 times. What cup was Christ praying be passed from Him? I believe it was the 4th cup that closed the Passover meal, which was fulfilled with the Lord’s Supper.

When God made the covenant with Moses, Moses asked who to tell had told him of the covenant, Exodus 3:13 – 14. God told Moses, “I am, who I am.”

When Christ was arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for and they replied, “Jesus of Nazareth”. In John 18:5, Jesus told them, “I AM he”. When those arresting Him heard this, they went backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).

Mark 15:22 – 24 told us that Christ was offered wine drugged with myrrh, but He did not drink it.

John 19:28 – 30 explains that Our Lord, aware that everything was now finished, in order that scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst”. Hearing this, they took a sponge and dipped it in common wine, sour wine, fruit of the vine, and held it up to His mouth with hyssop. After taking the wine, our Lord said, “It is finished”, bowed His head and gave up the spirit.

John 19:33 – 38 told us that our Lord’s legs were not broken, so that scripture might be fulfilled.

Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.

Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.

I know what Jesus meant when He said “It is finished”. You missed the joke I made…showing that Paradise is Heaven and thus ending the discussion. So I made a joke and said it is finished. Need to lighten things up a bit in here

 

[ServantofChrist]

I now Revelation like the back of my hand. There is only one Tree of Life, which is the same Tree of Life that was blocked after the fall of Adam and Eve. It is the Wisdom of God Proverb 3:13-18. “It is finished” was the Passover Supper Christ instituted in the upstairs room. There were four cups of wine, which the only drank three in the upstairs room. He finished the fourth cup on the Cross, then said “It is Finished”. At that very same moment the last bloody animal sacrifice for the Passover was finished in the Temple by the High Priest.The Passover started in the upstairs room and was finished on the Cross.Rinnie is right you must know history to understand what is being said.

Read Revelation 22:1…it states there is a tree on both sides of the river…that’s 2

 

[racing59]

I know what Jesus meant when He said “It is finished”. You missed the joke I made…showing that Paradise is Heaven and thus ending the discussion. So I made a joke and said it is finished. Need to lighten things up a bit in here

Hi servant, I’m not Catholic, but I learn a lot here. It is too bad you are finished with the discussion, you can learn a lot from Catholics here. They have a lot to offer us, even if you don’t agree. I pray and open my mind up to what Jesus was saying. Rinnie and Prodigal have a good sense of humor, I’ve been here for a while to know. They will defend their faith when challenged and rightly so. They will also answer questions if asked. I suggest you pray to Jesus and as Christian we should learn from all Christian faiths what they believe and ours is not to judge, only God knows a persons heart.
Peace be with you

 

[ServantofChrist]

Hi servant, I’m not Catholic, but I learn a lot here. It is too bad you are finished with the discussion, you can learn a lot from Catholics here. They have a lot to offer us, even if you don’t agree. I pray and open my mind up to what Jesus was saying. Rinnie and Prodigal have a good sense of humor, I’ve been here for a while to know. They will defend their faith when challenged and rightly so. They will also answer questions if asked. I suggest you pray to Jesus and as Christian we should learn from all Christian faiths what they believe and ours is not to judge, only God knows a persons heart.
Peace be with you

Hello racing…Peace be with you as well I never said I was leaving or was finished discussing any of the topics. It was merely a joke stating that the Scripture provided should end the discussion…joking, I know the discussion will go on…

 

[racing59]

Read Revelation 22:1…it states there is a tree on both sides of the river…that’s 2

If that’s the way you interpret it, fine. I see it as the same Tree on either side.Can you give me a Biblical explanation of “The Tree of Life”? All the different churches I been to in the pass won’t even discuss it. So tell me who the Tree of Life in Rev 22 is different than the Tree of Life in Gen.2:9, there was two trees, the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge?
Peace be with you

 

[1beleevr]

Hey, prodigal, did you say that Jesus said,"I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, AGAIN? Could someone, anyone infer that to mean, that He had drank from the cup, and then passed the cup around(something not done in catholic communion)! And since scripture is not explicit, how do we really know whether He drank from it or not? And as for “Let this cup of suffering pass from Me,” any chance that His humanity, was crying for release from this mission; not His divinity, He knew what His job was! And finally, Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished, which I believe meant, that His mission on earth was finished!

 

[ServantofChrist]

If that’s the way you interpret it, fine. I see it as the same Tree on either side.Can you give me a Biblical explanation of “The Tree of Life”? All the different churches I been to in the pass won’t even discuss it. So tell me who the Tree of Life in Rev 22 is different than the Tree of Life in Gen.2:9, there was two trees, the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge?
Peace be with you

If you think about it, how can 1 tree be on both sides of the river at the same time? I believe the tree of life in Gen and the tree of life in Rev are different…the one in Gen opened Adam and Eves eyes to good and evil as it states and said they would die if they ate it…well we know this means spiritual death…because one they didnt die and two that is how sin entered the world for as we know in Rom 6:23 the wages of sin is death.

The tree in Heaven has a different function…we wont have to worry about sin and it states the leaves are for healing of the nations…you can see these two sets of trees have different functions.

 

[racing59]

Hey, prodigal, did you say that Jesus said,"I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, AGAIN? Could someone, anyone infer that to mean, that He had drank from the cup, and then passed the cup around(something not done in catholic communion)! And since scripture is not explicit, how do we really know whether He drank from it or not? And as for “Let this cup of suffering pass from Me,” any chance that His humanity, was crying for release from this mission; not His divinity, He knew what His job was! And finally, Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished, which I believe meant, that His mission on earth was finished!

Hi beleever, I can’t give you all the answer but this is what I’ve discovered. Jesus mission was not finished on the Cross. He was dead for 3 days where did he go? Next he rose from the dead and went to the Apostles. He breath on them and the received the Holy Spirit. Then we charged them to preach the Gospel to the world. Then he rose up to Heaven, tilling them to baptize all nation in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So the Cross wasn’t the end. All was not finished on the Cross. He still had to raise up and raise to Heaven.

 

[CWBetts]

If you think about it, how can 1 tree be on both sides of the river at the same time? I believe the tree of life in Gen and the tree of life in Rev are different…the one in Gen opened Adam and Eves eyes to good and evil as it states and said they would die if they ate it…well we know this means spiritual death…because one they didnt die and two that is how sin entered the world for as we know in Rom 6:23 the wages of sin is death.

The tree in Heaven has a different function…we wont have to worry about sin and it states the leaves are for healing of the nations…you can see these two sets of trees have different functions.

The Tree of Life in Genesis did NOT do as you say. That was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The Tree od Life would have given them eternal life had they eaten from it.

 

[ServantofChrist]

Hi beleever, I can’t give you all the answer but this is what I’ve discovered. Jesus mission was not finished on the Cross. He was dead for 3 days where did he go? Next he rose from the dead and went to the Apostles. He breath on them and the received the Holy Spirit. Then we charged them to preach the Gospel to the world. Then he rose up to Heaven, tilling them to baptize all nation in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So the Cross wasn’t the end. All was not finished on the Cross. He still had to raise up and raise to Heaven.

Hello racing When Jesus said “It is finished”, He meant the reason He came…to save us from sin and redeem us back to God was finished…

 

[CWBetts]

Hello racing When Jesus said “It is finished”, He meant the reason He came…to save us from sin and redeem us back to God was finished…

redemption was finsished, justification was not

 

[ServantofChrist]

The Tree of Life in Genesis did NOT do as you say. That was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The Tree od Life would have given them eternal life had they eaten from it.

Sorry, my mistake…there are too many trees I did mistake the tree of life for the tree of knowledge…so if the tree of life in Gen would have given them eternal life, then the tree of life in Rev is still different. Thank you for the correction

 

[racing59]

If you think about it, how can 1 tree be on both sides of the river at the same time? I believe the tree of life in Gen and the tree of life in Rev are different…the one in Gen opened Adam and Eves eyes to good and evil as it states and said they would die if they ate it…well we know this means spiritual death…because one they didnt die and two that is how sin entered the world for as we know in Rom 6:23 the wages of sin is death.

The tree in Heaven has a different function…we wont have to worry about sin and it states the leaves are for healing of the nations…you can see these two sets of trees have different functions.

I don’t agree for several reasons. God can do anything the same Tree can be on both sides, it is a matter of perspective.2) The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge were two different Trees. Tree of Life the Wisdom of God, Tree of knowledge the Wisdom of man and beast. No where in the Bible does it say the Tree of Life in Rev. chapter 22 is different from the Tree of Life in Gen.2:9. In fact Gen. 3:24 in forces what I believe, they way to the Tree of Life was blocked by Angels.Rev. 22:14 tell us we have the rightto eat from the Tree of Life through our Baptism( was our robes).Jesus unlocked the Tree of Life again to us by his death and resurrection."…and the shall hang him from a TREE." Get it? The Cross!