Protestants lose members to 'unaffiliated'

[chewchoo]

Dale m: I notice your religion is listed as “fallen away catholic”Okay, let me put it this way; this is a catholic forum, you are talkig about non-catholics leaving their denominations for so-called unaffiliated churches, and I say, “Why do catholics leave the so-called one and only church that Christ founded? Reasons that I myself have heard from former catholics, are,1) “I learned the Truth”,2)“Too Many rules, dress codes, etc”, 3) My boyfriend’s a Methodist and won’t convert, and I want to marry him!” Perhaps we also need to address why catholics leave! Personaly, I was raised in a Southern Baptist home, and got saved in a Baptist church, at age 15! Like most other prodigal Christians, I wandered in the wilderness, attending different “Protestant” churches, and finally landed in a non denominational church; void of title,rules(man-made, anyway) and awesome worship; Christ centered, very scriptural! And, an externally focused church to boot

poorly catechized catholics fall away from the one, true Church that Jesus Christ founded. people that complain about the “rules” just aren’t ready to follow Jesus. all of the rules are based on scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. after all, Jesus said he would not abandon his Church, that is where the Tradition and the teachings of the church come from.

We get to do Matthew 25: 31-46, and Matthew 28: 19-20!!!

do you get the rest of the Bible too? i mean the whole thing, not just certain “key” passages. The Catholic Church understands the whole thing, and that is a big task. not everybody is up to it, sadly.

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo: I know, having attended Baptist churches in my younger days, and briefly going to a Mormon church with my girlfriend(she was Mormon), that sometimes man tends to tweak scripture, adding his own twist to them, and calling it church doctrine! For the longest time, I thought you had to dress up for church, until I read 1Samuel 16:7,which in essence says that,“The Lord does not see things the way you see them.People judge by outward appearances, but the Lord looks at the heart.” While I believe that there should be a modicum of moderation when it comes to dress codes, or lack of the same, the truth is, most times we probably dress to impress others, not God! Someone once said, “When you are in the Lord’s presence, you need to bring your best; and that includes your attire!” I replied,“You need to bring yourself; you are talking about someone who has seen you at your worst!” Remember, God resists the proud, but gives mercy to the humble:thumbsup:

 

[chewchoo]

chewchoo: I know, having attended Baptist churches in my younger days, and briefly going to a Mormon church with my girlfriend(she was Mormon), that sometimes man tends to tweak scripture, adding his own twist to them, and calling it church doctrine! For the longest time, I thought you had to dress up for church, until I read 1Samuel 16:7,which in essence says that,“The Lord does not see things the way you see them.People judge by outward appearances, but the Lord looks at the heart.” While I believe that there should be a modicum of moderation when it comes to dress codes, or lack of the same, the truth is, most times we probably dress to impress others, not God! Someone once said, “When you are in the Lord’s presence, you need to bring your best; and that includes your attire!” I replied,“You need to bring yourself; you are talking about someone who has seen you at your worst!” Remember, God resists the proud, but gives mercy to the humble:thumbsup:

i am assuming that your references to “man” are equivalent to “the Catholic Church” i am sorry that you are so critical of the Church that Jesus founded. yes, men guide the church here on earth and yes they make mistakes. but even in your no-name church, men are tweeking scripture to belittle the Catholic Church. so make sure you really have no sin before you throw that next stone.

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo: I read my post three times, and couldn’t find where I specifically named the catholic church, when saying how “man” tweaks scripture! But then I thought; oh wait, catholics are very sensitive to anything that sounds like an attack Why do you think I never joined the Mormon Church, and eventually left the Baptist Church? And better put those rocks down; you may hurt yourself:thumbsup: I’ve always wondered what is what like to live in a glass house In other words, even non-catholic churches tweak scripture!

 

[chewchoo]

chewchoo: I read my post three times, and couldn’t find where I specifically named the catholic church, when saying how “man” tweaks scripture! But then I thought; oh wait, catholics are very sensitive to anything that sounds like an attack Why do you think I never joined the Mormon Church, and eventually left the Baptist Church? And better put those rocks down; you may hurt yourself:thumbsup: I’ve always wondered what is what like to live in a glass house In other words, even non-catholic churches tweak scripture!

wow, to finally come across a perfect person in the world who attends a perfect church.

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo: And to think that I found you on a catholic website! All of my catholic friends say, "All catholics are Christians, but all Christians aren’t catholicIsn’t that what the theme of caf is; we are the perfect church, and all the rest of you are separated?

 

[1beleevr]

Hi chewchoo: Hope you had a nice weekend! I did, topped off by an incredible church service;awesome worship, love that contemporary Christian music:thumbsup:Anyway, was thinking about something, and wanted to get some (name removed by moderator)ut! When someone leaves the catholic church, what is the reaction of his/her fellow catholics? I know when people have left announced that they are leaving our church, we pray for them right there on the spot! We pray for God’s blessings upon them, along with His wisdom and peace! I’m sure that with the catholic church, it’s a bit more complicated; because your’e not just leaving a church, but a religion, a lifestyle, an institution! God bless you, my brother in Christ:thumbsup:

 

[chewchoo]

Hi chewchoo: Hope you had a nice weekend! I did, topped off by an incredible church service;awesome worship, love that contemporary Christian music:thumbsup:Anyway, was thinking about something, and wanted to get some (name removed by moderator)ut! When someone leaves the catholic church, what is the reaction of his/her fellow catholics? I know when people have left announced that they are leaving our church, we pray for them right there on the spot! We pray for God’s blessings upon them, along with His wisdom and peace! I’m sure that with the catholic church, it’s a bit more complicated; because your’e not just leaving a church, but a religion, a lifestyle, an institution! God bless you, my brother in Christ:thumbsup:

happy monday to you my non-denominational friend. my weekend was great. we travelled with Jesus in the stormy sea at mass this weekend, or rather, he travelled with us in our stormy existence. he is always with us, whether we are in a calm or a storm. we just have to be aware of his wonderful presence.

what do we catholics do when a member leaves the catholic church? well… first of all it is not announced at mass. that is not the purpose of the Catholic Mass. Mass is a little bit of heaven here on earth and the focus is prayer, in scripture and in the eucharist. so we usually hear about someone leaving in a totally different setting and so our prayers for them are usually very personal.

i have a question for you as well. you mentioned rules, man-made rules, earlier. what, specifically, are you referring to here?

 

[1beleevr]

Chewchoo: Our members leaving, is not announced either; we usually hear through the grapevine, they tell us themselves, or we get an email! Yesterday, at worship, we all took our shoes and socks off, and washed each other’s feet, just as Jesus did, to show His disciples the joys of serving! We were discussing about authority, and the wearing of stripes, or robes! As you are aware, Jesus removed His robe, before washing His disciples’s feet! He went from King to servant in a nanosecond! Man made rules, let’s see; how about you can be baptized for someone who died and was not,2)If your first spouse dies, and you remarry, you will be reunited with your first wife/husband when you get to Heaven,3)Jesus was a prophet, not God,4) you must wear a suit and tie to church,women, long dresses! Heaven on earth for me, is when I am immersed in service to my King,i.e, street ministry, community outreaches, feeding the homeless, or worshipping with the residents at the nursing home:thumbsup:Christ is among us, and I believe He is smilling

 

[chewchoo]

Chewchoo: Our members leaving, is not announced either; we usually hear through the grapevine, they tell us themselves, or we get an email!

oh, okay - the way you used announced in your earlier post it seemed to imply that you made the announcement in your church service.

Yesterday, at worship, we all took our shoes and socks off, and washed each other’s feet, just as Jesus did, to show His disciples the joys of serving! We were discussing about authority, and the wearing of stripes, or robes! As you are aware, Jesus removed His robe, before washing His disciples’s feet! He went from King to servant in a nanosecond!

i am curious as to why your service celebrated the feet washing this past weekend? are you celebrating easter this coming weekend? we have a 3 year liturgical cycle where we go thru the complete bible once every 3 years, but we celebrate the feast days of easter and christmas and some others every year on mostly static days.

Man made rules, let’s see; how about you can be baptized for someone who died and was not,2)If your first spouse dies, and you remarry, you will be reunited with your first wife/husband when you get to Heaven,3)Jesus was a prophet, not God,4) you must wear a suit and tie to church,women, long dresses!

i’m not sure about number 4, but the first three are mormon, and i wouldn’t call them “rules” but doctrine. they are part of the teachings of the LDS church. 4 is definitely a rule tho. did you attend the mormon church at one time?

Heaven on earth for me, is when I am immersed in service to my King,i.e, street ministry, community outreaches, feeding the homeless, or worshipping with the residents at the nursing home:thumbsup:Christ is among us, and I believe He is smilling

yes, heaven on earth is and can be all around us all of the time, in all of the things you mentioned. we are to see Jesus in our fellow man and behave in a Christ like manner all of the time (supposed to…) as for the heaven on earth within the mass, it is different than all of that. i am not well versed in it yet so i can’t give you a good explanation. but i have learned about it in the pope’s book called “the spirit of the liturgy”

 

[PRmerger]

Perhaps we also need to address why catholics leave

I have found the biggest reason, among my contemporaries, is because they disagree with Christ’s teaching on divorce and remarriage.

They find a church that edits Christ’s clear message “he who divorces and marries another commits adultery” to say something like “Jesus really didn’t mean you can’t divorce and re-marry.”

Rather than changing their lives to fit God’s Will, they shop around for a church that fits their lifestyle.

Just wondering, 1beleevr–what does your pastor teach about divorce and re-marriage. Will your church marry someone who’s been divorced?

 

[1beleevr]

Not sure what foot washing has to do with Easter, except maybe because He did it right before He went to the CrossThe times I have done it, has been to show how Christ was demonstrating sevice(Mark 10:45) And you have to wash the feet of someone whom you don’t know well! It’s a very humbling, but exhilerating experience! Attended Mormon churches with my girlfriend in the 70’s(never converted though! As far as divorce, and remarriage, our pastor teaches that remarriage is allowable, in circumstances of infidelity and physical abuse! I have a friend at work, whom I just found out recently is a catholic! He is married, with two children, but is currently living with an unmarried woman, with whom he has fathered two children! I saw somewhere about an actress from the 50’s, who has been married and divorced 5 times, but says she is a devout practicing catholicMakes me wonder what the catholic church’s position is on marriage and adultery, etc!

 

[chewchoo]

Not sure what foot washing has to do with Easter, except maybe because He did it right before He went to the CrossThe times I have done it, has been to show how Christ was demonstrating sevice(Mark 10:45) And you have to wash the feet of someone whom you don’t know well! It’s a very humbling, but exhilerating experience! Attended Mormon churches with my girlfriend in the 70’s(never converted though! As far as divorce, and remarriage, our pastor teaches that remarriage is allowable, in circumstances of infidelity and physical abuse! I have a friend at work, whom I just found out recently is a catholic! He is married, with two children, but is currently living with an unmarried woman, with whom he has fathered two children! I saw somewhere about an actress from the 50’s, who has been married and divorced 5 times, but says she is a devout practicing catholicMakes me wonder what the catholic church’s position is on marriage and adultery, etc!

seriously! you don’t think catholics are sinners? should be sinners? could be sinners? where did you ever get that idea? we are ALL sinners. some of us just have more public sin than others. some catholics are poorly catechized, some catholics prefer to follow the rules of society, some catholics pick and chose which “rules” they want to follow. the rest of us sinners are praying that these people wake up and accept the fullness of truth that is the catholic church. tell me, do you have sinners in your church? or have you eliminated all of the stiffling “rules” and you all can do whatever you want so long as you love Jesus? what does loving Jesus mean to you?

 

[PRmerger]

NotAs far as divorce, and remarriage, our pastor teaches that remarriage is allowable, in circumstances of infidelity and physical abuse! I have a friend at work, whom I just found out recently is a catholic! He is married, with two children, but is currently living with an unmarried woman, with whom he has fathered two children! I saw somewhere about an actress from the 50’s, who has been married and divorced 5 times, but says she is a devout practicing catholicMakes me wonder what the catholic church’s position is on marriage and adultery, etc!

The Catholic church cannot edit Christ’s message, no matter how distasteful it may be to someone who wants to divorce and remarry. We follow Scripture.

However, it sounds as if your pastor is teaching something un-Biblical and has changed Christ’s teaching to suit the modern culture.

Christ was quite clear that if you divorce and re-marry, you commit adultery. I don’t see any exception for infidelity and physical abuse in Christ’s words. St. Matthew’s use of the “except for pornea” is mistranslated as adultery.

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo: I am not implying that there are only sinners in the catholic church; every day, everywhere, people are sinning, saved or not! We were talking about remarriage after divorce, and it sounded like you were pointing out that non-catholics were the only ones who promoted this practice! It made me think about the examples that I provided! Then I see in the news that Mel Gibson has fathered a child with a woman other than his wife, and divorce is in the works John F Kennedy, and others, who profess loyalty to the church, and then are caught in compromising positions I am so glad that I have the Advocate thart Jesus promised us, for when I do sin, or have an impure thought, even if I don’t act on it! I can go to the Lord in prayer, enter the throneroom of grace(Hebrews 4:16), and confess and repent(1John 1:9). To me this is just a part of loving Jesus; knowing that He is there for me, ALWAYS!! And we have not done away with all the stifling rules, and do what we want, just because we love Jesus! God disciplines, not punishes! He corrects our behavior out of love! Anybody who has children knows that discipline is a form of love, even though the children reject it initially! I am more obedient to God, than I ever have been, but I am not even close to being perfect! Here’s a quick example from my first marriage: my wife had an affair, had a child with her lover, making me believe that the child was mine for awhile. Then she filed for divorce, telling me the child was not mine! Should I have tried to save the marriage, and raise the baby as my own? Matthew 19:9 says,“Unless she is unfaithful”>

 

[chewchoo]

chewchoo: I am not implying that there are only sinners in the catholic church; every day, everywhere, people are sinning, saved or not! We were talking about remarriage after divorce, and it sounded like you were pointing out that non-catholics were the only ones who promoted this practice! It made me think about the examples that I provided! Then I see in the news that Mel Gibson has fathered a child with a woman other than his wife, and divorce is in the works John F Kennedy, and others, who profess loyalty to the church, and then are caught in compromising positions I am so glad that I have the Advocate thart Jesus promised us, for when I do sin, or have an impure thought, even if I don’t act on it! I can go to the Lord in prayer, enter the throneroom of grace(Hebrews 4:16), and confess and repent(1John 1:9). To me this is just a part of loving Jesus; knowing that He is there for me, ALWAYS!! And we have not done away with all the stifling rules, and do what we want, just because we love Jesus! God disciplines, not punishes! He corrects our behavior out of love! Anybody who has children knows that discipline is a form of love, even though the children reject it initially! I am more obedient to God, than I ever have been, but I am not even close to being perfect! Here’s a quick example from my first marriage: my wife had an affair, had a child with her lover, making me believe that the child was mine for awhile. Then she filed for divorce, telling me the child was not mine! Should I have tried to save the marriage, and raise the baby as my own? Matthew 19:9 says,“Unless she is unfaithful”>

have you forgiven your ex-wife?
“forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”
Jesus forgives even the most terrible of sinners if he is repentent. since we are not Jesus we have to just forgive all since we cannot know the state of their soul. how can Jesus forgive us if we can’t forgive others? we must pray for all souls so that they to can have the hope of getting to heaven, even those souls that have hurt or offended us.

as for your mel gibson example - what he did is NOT promoted by the catholic church, just because public-figure catholics sin does not undo the fact that it is still a sin. anyone can say they are catholic, go to church faithfully and even receive Jesus in the Eucharist, and still be a public sinner. i have already said this before. what don’t you get about this?

 

[PRmerger]

chewchoo: I am not implying that there are only sinners in the catholic church; every day, everywhere, people are sinning, saved or not! We were talking about remarriage after divorce, and it sounded like you were pointing out that non-catholics were the only ones who promoted this practice! It made me think about the examples that I provided! Then I see in the news that Mel Gibson has fathered a child with a woman other than his wife, and divorce is in the works John F Kennedy, and others, who profess loyalty to the church, and then are caught in compromising positions I am so glad that I have the Advocate thart Jesus promised us, for when I do sin, or have an impure thought, even if I don’t act on it! I can go to the Lord in prayer, enter the throneroom of grace(Hebrews 4:16), and confess and repent(1John 1:9). To me this is just a part of loving Jesus; knowing that He is there for me, ALWAYS!! And we have not done away with all the stifling rules, and do what we want, just because we love Jesus! God disciplines, not punishes! He corrects our behavior out of love! Anybody who has children knows that discipline is a form of love, even though the children reject it initially! I am more obedient to God, than I ever have been, but I am not even close to being perfect! Here’s a quick example from my first marriage: my wife had an affair, had a child with her lover, making me believe that the child was mine for awhile. Then she filed for divorce, telling me the child was not mine! Should I have tried to save the marriage, and raise the baby as my own? Matthew 19:9 says,“Unless she is unfaithful”>

You are making the error of confusing what Catholicism teaches with what Catholics do.

See what Catholicism teaches about divorce in the Catechism, starting with paragraphs 2384.

(BTW, I see every single day Evangelicals who do not follow Christ’s teachings…on divorce, on turning the other cheek, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc etc etc.)

 

[chewchoo]

this seemed to be an appropriate quote based on the recent discussion.

“The gravest obligation requires the acceptance and practice, not of the religion which one may choose, but of that which God prescribes and which is known by certain and indubitable marks to be the only true one.”
– Leo XIII in his Encyclical Immortale Dei (November 1, 1885); on our fundamenal duty; (from the article Religious Toleration)

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo:As painful as it was, yes, I finally forgave my ex-wife! I never hated her, just felt deep hurt by her actions! By the grace of my Holy Father(God), I was able to walk through the dark valley,my hand in His, and come out the other side, healed! And the thing about public figures, including the still ongoing priest sexual abuse cases, I wasn’t condemning the entire catholic chuech, just saying, it looks pretty bad when your president, or other prominent people, whom we know are catholic, get exposed in unethical behavior Non-catholics are just as guilty, and we all know of leaders who have been publicly humiliated! Does this mean that non-catholics teach adultery is okay, or murder, or violation of any of the Ten Commandments is okay? Of course not; but even priests, pastors, and yes, even the pope is vulnerable to sin! The beauty of grace and mercy is illuminated, by our weakness(flesh), and we know our Saviour is there for us!

 

[1beleevr]

prmergerown, boy! Whew; it’s not about what catholicism or non-catholicism teaches, it’s actually partly about hypocrisy! My friend, whom I referred to in regards to living with, and fathering two children with, while remaining married, is very arrogant, and says, “I’m catholic, and proud of it!” I know what the Bible teaches about marriage and divorce. Sometimes people get married in a church, profess their undying love for each other before hundreds of witnesses, but God may not be “in” the marriage! I know He hates divorce, but He does not hate divorced people! And, unless you’re going out to homeless shelters, feeding, and or clothing, witnessing to the lost for your King(Matthew 28:19-20), and turning the other cheek yourself, on a regular basis, then you need to put the stone down, before you hurt yourself. Personally, my hands are empty:thumbsup: