Protestants shouldn't upset me -- right?

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yves

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Fellow Forum Posters,

Confession time: I don’t know how to cope, inwardly, with Protestants. Of course I know God loves them as He loves us. I am aware of the Church’s views and endeavors (especially from Vatican II and Pope John Paul II) towards ecumenism and certainly I agree. On an individual basis, provided we do not discuss religion, I not surprisingly find them just as myself – human! But when religion comes up – be it from an individual or when I read about a group (a particular denomination) or when I am forced to listen to a pro-Protestant tirade from whiney Catholics – actually, I should reduce that to a pro-Protestant remark from whiney and/or semi-Protestant Catholics, something strange happens to me. I have to hastily beat down a fierce combination of sadness and anger that leaps inside me.

I’ve asked myself why. Do I feel threatened? Do I hate them? Is it pride or a need to be right? No. I love all people and I don’t feel threatened. I know they often have the best of intentions. What I think gets me the most is that I feel that Protestantism is tearing His Body into teeny, tiny pieces. Break that apart into topics – all of their complaints and disagreements with our sacraments and Tradition, their attitude towards the Blessed Mother and the Holy Father – and some of you might be able to imagine how many times I have to beat myself up (inside) in the course of a day. If I am called to respond, it is always lovingly and and with civility, but I find it very stressful. I then become irritated with myself for getting so upset in the first place.

They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs and to declare them to all who will listen. Devout Protestants love God and serve Him well in their love for others.

But, ah, I have to lift my head from my hands again because that last short paragraph was as hard as it was easy (fair) to write – I resent them. God bless them and may our Blessed Mother pray for them since I don’t know how – and I’m thinking they probably wouldn’t appreciate my asking her.

Do I sound crazy? Don’t worry, I’m just tired. But I need your prayers and I need your advice.

May Christ’s peace protect you all.
 
I think it important to remember that for many Protestants, their religion was not a choice they made for themselves. We are all born into a context, a family environment, etc.

Just like Catholic who never really chose their faith after exploring all the others, most Protestants never explored Catholicism before choosing Protestantism.

You can help remedy this by sharing your faith publicly. Be prepared to give an answer for you faith and respond to Protestant queries with love and charity. Your love and prayers will bring souls into the fullness of the faith!

Pray that God will fill your heart with love for Protestants. I can tell that you are on the way.

God Bless,
Iguana
 
I’d add that you should differentiate between Protestants, the “sons of the Reformation,” who generally have irenic views of Catholicism, and Evangelicals, who range in attitude from irenicism to utter hatred (the common trait of most Fundamentalists).
 
What you feel is good. Everyone SHOULD feel an absolute HATRED for the protestant religion (not for protestants themselves). We are called to hate sin. We hate murder, which kills the body. Since the soul is INFINTELY more important than the body, we should hate infinitely MORE the murder of the soul, which all non-Catholic religions do, as no one who is outside the Roman Catholic Church can be saved. Do not reject this feeling of hatred for sin, which God Himself experiences all the more strongly. Use this hatred for sin (for protestantism and all heresies) to work to destroy these heresies and their author, the devil, from our midst. God bless.
 
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yves:
Fellow Forum Posters,

Confession time: I don’t know how to cope, inwardly, with Protestants. Of course I know God loves them as He loves us. I am aware of the Church’s views and endeavors (especially from Vatican II and Pope John Paul II) towards ecumenism and certainly I agree. On an individual basis, provided we do not discuss religion, I not surprisingly find them just as myself – human! But when religion comes up – be it from an individual or when I read about a group (a particular denomination) or when I am forced to listen to a pro-Protestant tirade from whiney Catholics – actually, I should reduce that to a pro-Protestant remark from whiney and/or semi-Protestant Catholics, something strange happens to me. I have to hastily beat down a fierce combination of sadness and anger that leaps inside me.

I’ve asked myself why. Do I feel threatened? Do I hate them? Is it pride or a need to be right? No. I love all people and I don’t feel threatened. I know they often have the best of intentions. What I think gets me the most is that I feel that Protestantism is tearing His Body into teeny, tiny pieces. Break that apart into topics – all of their complaints and disagreements with our sacraments and Tradition, their attitude towards the Blessed Mother and the Holy Father – and some of you might be able to imagine how many times I have to beat myself up (inside) in the course of a day. If I am called to respond, it is always lovingly and and with civility, but I find it very stressful. I then become irritated with myself for getting so upset in the first place.

They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs and to declare them to all who will listen. Devout Protestants love God and serve Him well in their love for others.

But, ah, I have to lift my head from my hands again because that last short paragraph was as hard as it was easy (fair) to write – I resent them. God bless them and may our Blessed Mother pray for them since I don’t know how – and I’m thinking they probably wouldn’t appreciate my asking her.

Do I sound crazy? Don’t worry, I’m just tired. But I need your prayers and I need your advice.

May Christ’s peace protect you all.
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WAIT A MINUTE ,Jesus tells us to love our enemys,can you do as much for protestants, who are part of the Body of Christ. Honestly you need to pray that God will pour out his spirit of love upon you, so that you may love your neigbor as yourself. :confused:
 
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SPOKENWORD:
WAIT A MINUTE ,Jesus tells us to love our enemys,can you do as much for protestants, who are part of the Body of Christ.
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No, protestants are NOT a part of the Mystical Body of Christ. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Protestants are not a part of the Church, hence, they are not a part of the Body of Christ. Rather, they are heretics and cannot be saved unless they convert to the one True Church. God bless.
 
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EENS:
What you feel is good. Everyone SHOULD feel an absolute HATRED for the protestant religion (not for protestants themselves). We are called to hate sin. We hate murder, which kills the body. Since the soul is INFINTELY more important than the body, we should hate infinitely MORE the murder of the soul, which all non-Catholic religions do, as no one who is outside the Roman Catholic Church can be saved. Do not reject this feeling of hatred for sin, which God Himself experiences all the more strongly. Use this hatred for sin (for protestantism and all heresies) to work to destroy these heresies and their author, the devil, from our midst. God bless.
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Wow, Really sounds like the spirit of love in you. I think you need to reread your catachism[No oneoutside the RCC can be saved.] :confused:
 
God has given to every person the freedom to choose their spiritual path in life, especially in this country. Should you be angry at people who have not yet chosen the best path possible? Probably not, but I can certainly understand your sadness for them.

I would encourage you to channed your feelings into the productive activity of preparing yourself to explain and defend our beautiful Catholic faith. Read the Bibe, read apologetical literature, read biographies of the Saints, listen and participate in discussions on this board, and above all pray. Then, when these frustrating tirades cross your path, you will be ready to help these people understand just what it is they’re missing.
 
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EENS:
as no one who is outside the Roman Catholic Church can be saved.
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The Catholic Church specifically teaches that one does not have to be a professed member of the Catholic Church to be saved.

Do some reading, you are flat wrong.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
WAIT A MINUTE ,Jesus tells us to love our enemys,can you do as much for protestants, who are part of the Body of Christ. Honestly you need to pray that God will pour out his spirit of love upon you, so that you may love your neigbor as yourself. :confused:
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I don’t consider them my enemies. They just upset me. I do defend my faith – peacefully. I love apologetics. I do love them and wouldn’t be rude to anyone, but their ideas (not necessarily individuals) do hurt me.
 
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Southernrich:
The Catholic Church specifically teaches that one does not have to be a professed member of the Catholic Church to be saved.

Do some reading, you are flat wrong.
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Here is what the Church teaches INFALLIBLY:

Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215): “One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful outside which no one at all is saved…”

Pope Boniface VIII in his Papal Bull Unam Sanctam (A.D. 1302): “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): “[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

The current Pope is not infallible in his every opinion.

Here is what Popes throughout history have said:

Pope Pelagius II (A.D. 578 - 590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604): “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” (Moralia)

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Continue to the next post, please…
 
Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): “We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

“He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.” (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae)

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 - 1914): “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.” (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 - 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. …Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos)

Pope Pius XII (A.D. 1939 - 1958): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.” (Allocution to the Gregorian, October 17, 1953)

And the next post will consult the Fathers of the Church…
 
Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” (Against Heresies, Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church)

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.” (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Latina, Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers)

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers)

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation.” (The Divine Institutes)

Next post, please…
 
Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (died A.D. 386): “Abhor all heretics…heed not their fair speaking or their mock humility; for they are serpents, a brood of vipers.' Remember that, when Judas said Hail Rabbi,’ the salutation was an act of betrayal. Do not be deceived by the kiss but beware of the venom. Abhor such men, therefore, and shun the blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, for whom there is no pardon. For what fellowship have you with men without hope. Let us confidently say to God regarding all heretics, Did I not hate, O Lord, those who hated Thee, and did I not pine away because of Your enemies?' For there is an enmity that is laudable, as it is written, I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.’ Friendship with the serpent produces enmity with God, and death. Let us shun those from whom God turns away.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): “Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. …Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Bishop Niceta of Remesiana (died A.D. 415): “He is the Way along which we journey to our salvation; the Truth, because He rejects what is false; the Life, because He destroys death. …All who from the beginning of the world were, or are, or will be justified - whether Patriarchs, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or Prophets, whether Apostles or martyrs, or any others - make up one Church, because they are made holy by one faith and way of life, stamped with one Spirit, made into one Body whose Head, as we are told, is Christ. I go further. The angels and virtues and powers in heaven are co-members in this one Church, for, as the Apostle teaches us, in Christ all things whether on the earth or in the heavens have been reconciled.' You must believe, therefore, that in this one Church you are gathered into the Communion of Saints. You must know that this is the one Catholic Church established throughout the world, and with it you must remain in unshaken communion. There are, indeed, other so called churches’ with which you can have no communion. …These `churches’ cease to be holy, because they were deceived by the doctrines of the devil to believe and behave differently from what Christ commanded and from the tradition of the Apostles.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Next post please…
 
Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)
Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

St. Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597): “Outside of this communion - as outside of the ark of Noah - there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Next post please…
 
Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): “Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church.” (De Sacramento Baptismi)

This is not an all-inclusive list… this is what the Church teaches!

Do not base your belief on one fallible document. It is easy to believe that everyone goes to Heaven and classify everyone as “no fault of their own.” Nevertheless, this is NOT the case. We MUST be Catholic to be saved. God bless.
 
I suggest that you read and understand what the Church teaches, and how it interprets those and other statements.

Please read and try to understand what Pope John Paul II and recent popes have said about salvation outside the Church.

What is your background to challenge what the Church holds? It appears to be lacking.
 
The Church makes statements clear so they don’t need some strange “interpretation.” There has NEVER been an infallible statement that makes an exception to the fact that one must be Catholic. God bless.
 
BTW, some of those men were saints, but what a saint says isn’t necessarily infallible. But you should have known this.

All the more reason to reject your theological view.

Stick to the Church, friend, don’t go down the road of dissent as you seem to be doing.
 
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EENS:
The Church makes statements clear so they don’t need some strange “interpretation.” There has NEVER been and infallible statement that makes an exception to the fact that one must be Catholic. God bless.
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How about the Declaration of the Assumption of Mary? Cite the passage from this infallible declaration that says that one must be Catholic.

You are speaking utter, utter nonsense.
 
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