Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

[sola_scriptura]

why trust Protestantism… For one, it came much later than Catholicism… that fact alone should say something…

Why?

Jesus did not go straight to Heaven when he died… He went to Sheol… and even then, he came back to Earth for awhile before ascnding to Heaven…

He did descend to Hades, and He did not ascend to Heaven (with both body and spirit) until the Ascension. However, what do you think He meant by His words to the thief on the cross.

You can believe what you want… your choice… But truth does not change… I’m just glad i belong to the true Church, which also does not change (dogma)…

The church has changed many times … you just won’t admit it.

Well, you are more open-minded that some posters who argue with Catholics here… but still… i think you are arguing with the RCC “characterization” because you have been programmed to do so… I mean, Protestants are, as a general rule, pretty… anti-Catholic… (the ones i have known anyway)… & one cant blame them too much… If i had been raised to think some of the thihngs they think, i am sure i would be also… No one can prove who wrote what, really… but logic dictates that some are not bad enough to fry in Hell forever and yet thye are not pure enough for Heaven…

I disagree. First I wouldn’t characterize myself as anti-Catholic (that would mean I’d have to dislike half my family). Secondly I think 1 Cor. 3:15 does not support purgatory. It is reminiscent of Lot barely escaping the flames of Sodom. God told Abraham He would spare Sodom if there were just ten righteous people in the city.

Lot lost his children that day. Had he preached the word and bore fruit he may have saved his family. Not only that if he saved just four other people in addition to his family he could have spared Sodom. However, while Lot was himself Godly and was saved, he barely escaped the fire, because he bore no fruit.

I just heard Scott Hahn explain purgatory on EWTN and I find his explanation totally deficient. I think it fails to understand the nexus between Paul’s words and its Old Testament roots.

Before i knew the Catholic teaching on Purg very well (though cradle Catholic, wasn’t taught)… and Mother Teresa died within a wk of Princess Diana… I thoght about that… how Princ Di didn’t seem like an awful person… she did good things but i bleieve she was fornication (etc??)… So even before i was totaly catechized… the Protestant position (either Hell or heaven) didn’t make sense to me… something seemed very … lacking…

Why say that? Look being Catholic is fine, I’m not one to run around condemning other Christians. However, how can you really say my rendering of 1 Cor. 3:15 for example is erroneous? It certainly finds support from the Scriptures & makes more sense than purgatory. I guess I just can’t see why believing that Jesus died for all our sins, incurred 100% of the punishment we deserve, is wrong? The RCC will say purgatory is not punishment, as if?

We will be purified by searing our souls with the raging flames of the refiners furnace. How can anyone say that is not punishment with a straight face?

 

[MIZER]

originally posted by sola scriptura:

…how can you really say my rendering of 1 Cor. 3:15 for example is erroneous?

There is only one truth. One can say that your rendering of any verse in the Bible is erroneous if it conflicts with the one truth which is taught by the one true Church, commissioned by Christ himself to do the teaching “until the end of the age”. The challenge for you is to question your personal interpretation and ask yourself why you think your personal beliefs are correct, while the beliefs of the ancient church and her millions of followers, including the early fathers who were direct disciples of the Apostles themselves, are (were) incorrect.

It certainly finds support from the Scriptures & makes more sense than purgatory.

When one takes the Holy Text as a whole, and does not cherry pick the verses one will accept, then it is obvious that the Protestant rejection of purgatory is nonsense, originally instituted a scant 500 years ago, to effect belief in a particular agenda, set forth by a very small contingency of protesters.

The singular truth which is that purgatory exists as an expiation of our sins demanding temporal punishment, which may remain at our death is the only logical and sensible explanation as to what happens when a person of faith, dies while his soul is still in an imperfect state. And this is what the scripture bears out. “Nothing unclean will enter heaven.” Look at King David. The man was as great a sinner as he was a man of faith. Did his faith alone save him to the point that he suffered no divine punishment for his actions? No. What about Moses, did his faith alone mean that God would not punish him for his disobedience? No, not at all. At the point non-Catholics are obstinate in their refusal to believe not only in Christ but in the Church He founded which is his mystical body, then one must realize that one is not believing in the whole of Christ, which is the very Word of God. John 1:1. That is a problem.

Can you say with all honesty that your love of God is perfect?

I guess I just can’t see why believing that Jesus died for all our sins, incurred 100% of the punishment we deserve, is wrong?

Well, where does it say in the Bible that Jesus incurred 100% of the what would be due? Jesus fullfilled the covenant and by doing so he opened the gates of heaven. Nowhere, and by no one (before the 16th century) were we told that our sins are expiated in full, by the one time event which is illustrated by the non-Catholic understanding of “being saved” or being “born again.”

Our love of God must be perfect before we can gain entrance into heaven. What I don’t understand is how you (and other non-Catholics) can think that human faith, with all of it’s many flaws, can be equivalent to perfect love.

The RCC will say purgatory is not punishment, as if?

Does the CC say this? That’s not what I’ve been taught. Hmmmmmm can you offer the cite from the catechism or a papal encyclical that says purgatory is not punishment? Perhaps it’s a problem of semantics. I don’t know. I understand that the pain of purgatory is different then the pain of hell but that it is, at the same time, similar in that one is separated from God in both states. If pain can be defined as punishment then it is not incorrect to say that purgatory is punishment, in a sense.

We will be purified by searing our souls with the raging flames of the refiners furnace. How can anyone say that is not punishment with a straight face?

My reading of this thread may be deficient. Did someone say this with a straight face?

How can anyone say that we are not in need of this refinement, knowing how hopelessly flawed the human race is, before standing in the very presence of the Glory of God?

 

[jrssls]

Jesus taught the Catholic faith and chose St. Peter to continue His work where St. Peter converted thousands in one day. The Catholic Church officially began on Pentecost.

Back to the thread, it has been stated in many private revelations including souls that protestants spend more time in purgatory because they do not pray for their dead - so they languish suffering terribly. Also protestants do not know the full truth as Catholics do.

FYI, there is no purgatory. Once you die, you are either committed to heaven or hell. It’s your choice, not God’s. Here in Hebrews 9:27,28 says - And just as it is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died only once as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again but not to deal with our sins again. This time he will bring salvation to all those who are eagerly waiting for him.
All people die physically, but Christ died so that we would not have to die spiritually. We can have wonderful confidence in his saving work for us, doing away with sin-past, present and future. He has forgiven our past sin-when he died on the cross he sacrificed himself once for all; he has given us the Holy Spirit to help us deal with present sin. Meaning, you ask God for forgiveness and you have a clean slate. You are the one who can’t forget your sins, but Jesus does when you ask Him for forgiveness. So you see, you can’t pray for the dead, that is false doctrine. Not biblical truth.
And actually, Protestants know more than what the Catholics do. You’ve just met the wrong people.

 

[jrssls]

Hi all,

I’m just jumping in here. This thread is up to 16 pages and I haven’t read it all through yet so if you will, please bear with me.

At this point I have a question for jssls but only because he phrased himself a certain way. I would be interested in any non-catholic’s response. And if some nc has responded, particulary to Goodfella’s post #65, repleat with nc interpretations of the verses Goodfella pointed to and with verses of their own which may refute the existence of purgatory please give me the post # as I would love to read it. I have been trying for years to get a reasonable response to this question from a nc, to no avail.

What jssls said was that we (catholics) are learning what we believe about purgatory and not from “the word of God.” Thus what we are learning is not true, so he, and other nc’s would say. I forgot to copy his quote, in my zeal and excitement that there might actually be some nc’s (baptist’s particularly) on this thread who might be willing to offer a reasoned answer to a question and if I go back that far now I’ll loose what I have so far on this post.

So here’s my question.

When a nc says this: that we (catholics) are learning something from our church and not from the “word of God” what do you mean exactly?

Do you think “word of God” refers only to the written text of the Bible? I

f so, how does the bible alone go about “teaching” human beings? How is that possible anasmuch as it is an inanimate object, incapable of correction, incapable of enforcement?

I’m not being sarcastic. Truely. I have have been accused many times, by my own siblings, particularly my Baptist sister of not learning what I think I know from “the word of God.” I have never been able to get her to answer these questions. Will you? PLEASE

Yes, and to correct you, I am a female. Yes, absolutely we believe the Word of God is the written text in the Bible. Now you understand. Everything that is written in the Bible is to teach you everything what you need to know while living on the earth.

 

[jrssls]

why trust Protestantism… For one, it came much later than Catholicism… that fact alone should say something… Jesus did not go straight to Heaven when he died… He went to Sheol… and even then, he came back to Earth for awhile before ascnding to Heaven… You can believe what you want… your choice… But truth does not change… I’m just glad i belong to the true Church, which also does not change (dogma)…
Well, you are more open-minded that some posters who argue with Catholics here… but still… i think you are arguing with the RCC “characterization” because you have been programmed to do so… I mean, Protestants are, as a general rule, pretty… anti-Catholic… (the ones i have known anyway)… & one cant blame them too much… If i had been raised to think some of the thihngs they think, i am sure i would be also… No one can prove who wrote what, really… but logic dictates that some are not bad enough to fry in Hell forever and yet thye are not pure enough for Heaven…

Before i knew the Catholic teaching on Purg very well (though cradle Catholic, wasn’t taught)… and Mother Teresa died within a wk of Princess Diana… I thoght about that… how Princ Di didn’t seem like an awful person… she did good things but i bleieve she was fornication (etc??)… So even before i was totaly catechized… the Protestant position (either Hell or heaven) didn’t make sense to me… something seemed very … lacking…

Well, Princess Di was also involved in witchcraft. She would read upon her horoscopes daily and have someone tell her about her future. It’s all the same in the form of witchcraft.

 

[MIZER]

jrssls,

Sorry about the gender thing. It would be easier if our profile included gender. I will try to remember.

jrssls posted:
Yes, absolutely we believe the Word of God is the written text in the Bible. Now you understand. Everything that is written in the Bible is to teach you everything what you need to know while living on the earth

If the “Word of God” is the Bible alone, why does John1:1 state that Jesus Christ is the Word of God?

Where does the Bible make the claim you make here? Where does it state that we are to be taught “everything (we) need to know while living on the earth” by reading the Bible?

Why did Jesus commission the Apostles (and their successors who would fill their offices in the future) to teach? Why didn’t he commission them to write the NT and get the OT cannonized immediately?

Why does the Bible say that, if it included everything Jesus taught, that the book would not fit in the world?

The great commission has Jesus telling the Apostles to teach all that he commanded them. How were they to do this if we are to learn all of that from a book as opposed to His Church? Why didn’t the Apostles begin immediately to start writing things down to be included in the Bible that was to teach all nations until the end of the age? Instead all we have is a disjointed set of writtings, most of which are personal letters written by only a handful of the original twelve and written to specific groups, living in a specific time. Why on Earth did the Apostles waste all that time establishing and growing a Church if they understood that Jesus intended for us all to learn His one Gospel by reading and self interpreting the Bible?

Why did Jesus say to “hear the Church.”??? He should have said “read the Bible.” If the Bible is the Word of God and His Church is not His representative on Earth then this verse is nonsense?

Why did Jesus say to the Apostles, “He who hears you hears me.”??? He should have said, “he who reads the Bible, hears me.”

Why did Paul tell Timothy that the Church, the household of God, is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. He should have told Timothy to start teaching people to read and understand the finer points of the Greek language and theology as “the Bible is to be the pillar and ground of Truth.”

As you can see, I am greatly confused. Can you enlighten me?

 

[distracted]

He did descend to Hades, and He did not ascend to Heaven (with both body and spirit) until the Ascension. However, what do you think He meant by His words to the thief on the cross.

The Church teaches that if one dies immediately after being baptized (meaning no sin after baptism) he would go straight to Heaven… The thief repented & then died… didn’t have time to sin… so it is possible he went to Heaven… However, it could also be speculated upon that he went to Purgatory… because the souls in Purgatory are on their way to God… so it is not all suffering… I’ve heard accounts of souls appearing to someone on Earth & telling the person they would not return to Earth if thye could… because there is too much chance on Earth of losing salvation… In Purgatory, they know thye are on their way to Heaven…

The church has changed many times … you just won’t admit it.

Of course it has… An acorn planted in the ground doesn’t stay an acorn… In 2000 yrs, it will look very different…

I disagree. First I wouldn’t characterize myself as anti-Catholic (that would mean I’d have to dislike half my family).

Jesus said unless we hate our family (etc)… even our very selves, we are not worthy of him…

Secondly I think 1 Cor. 3:15 does not support purgatory.

that’s your opinion… but don’t hold it against me that i would prefer to beliieve a Church that has been around for 2000 yrs… The Church hierarchy (in fact the whole Body of believers Therein) has had a lot of time to meditate on the Scriptures… I am sure you are under 100 yrs old…

Lot lost his children that day. Had he preached the word and bore fruit he may have saved his family. Not only that if he saved just four other people in addition to his family he could have spared Sodom. However, while Lot was himself Godly and was saved, he barely escaped the fire, because he bore no fruit.

don’t see the relevence…

? The RCC will say purgatory is not punishment, as if?

Whatever word you put on it… we are all headed there some day. In fact, a true Christian who loves Jesus & puts him first is going to be in Purgatory NOW… persecution, misunderstanding, people being envious… (people always envy you if you have something they don’t… human nature…). If you are not going through at least some Hell (purg) here on Earth, you probably are not following Jesus very well… Jesus said “you will be hated by all…” (which is naother proof that the Catholic Church is the one Christ established… No other institution in the world is as hated as She)…

We will be purified by searing our souls with the raging flames of the refiners furnace. How can anyone say that is not punishment with a straight face?

i never said it wasn’t punishment… I accept my punishment… I know it is necessary to purify my soul. I sometimes resist it as much as anyone… but i have no choice but to accept it… (no choice if i want to go to Heaven)

 

[jrssls]

jrssls,

Sorry about the gender thing. It would be easier if our profile included gender. I will try to remember.

If the “Word of God” is the Bible alone, why does John1:1 state that Jesus Christ is the Word of God?

Where does the Bible make the claim you make here? Where does it state that we are to be taught “everything (we) need to know while living on the earth” by reading the Bible?

Why did Jesus commission the Apostles (and their successors who would fill their offices in the future) to teach? Why didn’t he commission them to write the NT and get the OT cannonized immediately?

Why does the Bible say that, if it included everything Jesus taught, that the book would not fit in the world?

The great commission has Jesus telling the Apostles to teach all that he commanded them. How were they to do this if we are to learn all of that from a book as opposed to His Church? Why didn’t the Apostles begin immediately to start writing things down to be included in the Bible that was to teach all nations until the end of the age? Instead all we have is a disjointed set of writtings, most of which are personal letters written by only a handful of the original twelve and written to specific groups, living in a specific time. Why on Earth did the Apostles waste all that time establishing and growing a Church if they understood that Jesus intended for us all to learn His one Gospel by reading and self interpreting the Bible?

Why did Jesus say to “hear the Church.”??? He should have said “read the Bible.” If the Bible is the Word of God and His Church is not His representative on Earth then this verse is nonsense?

Why did Jesus say to the Apostles, “He who hears you hears me.”??? He should have said, “he who reads the Bible, hears me.”

Why did Paul tell Timothy that the Church, the household of God, is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. He should have told Timothy to start teaching people to read and understand the finer points of the Greek language and theology as “the Bible is to be the pillar and ground of Truth.”

As you can see, I am greatly confused. Can you enlighten me?

You’re honestly making it harder than what it actually is. I shouldn’t have to explain it to you. Why don’t you read it, find a subject, whether it’s on faith, healing, the speaking of tongues, etc. and you will understand what I am saying. Everything in the Bible is explained to you in what you need to know.

 

[distracted]

FYI, there is no purgatory. Once you die, you are either committed to heaven or hell. It’s your choice, not God’s.

that is true… but Purgatory is not a 3rd final destination… it is a stop over before Heaven… (as it were)…

Here in Hebrews 9:27,28 says - And just as it is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died only once as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people.

How does Catholic teaching go against that?? Once a person is judged, what becomes of him? This passage does not say… so i don’t know why you use it…

.
All people die physically, but Christ died so that we would not have to die spiritually.

then why do i die spiritually every time i sin?? (and certain sins cause this worse than others…)

We can have wonderful confidence in his saving work for us, doing away with sin-past, present and future. He has forgiven our past sin-when he died on the cross he sacrificed himself once for all; he has given us the Holy Spirit to help us deal with present sin.

You keep talking about what Jesus did…

what about what we humans are required to do?? What, in other words… are we supposed to DO with Jesus??? Just believe in Him??? “Even the demons believe and tremble… Faith without works is dead” (James 2:12).

you ask God for forgiveness and you have a clean slate.

the consequences of your sin do not disappear when you ask for forgivenss (though they begin to “dissipate” somewhat)… Analogy: 3 people walk by a ditch filled 6 ft with mud… One is pushed into the ditch. One ignorantly throws himself into the ditch… (reasons unknown )… One deliberately throws himself in, thinking it will “feel good”… One accidentally falls in (couldn’t see it)t So now i ask you: Which one needs a bath??

You are the one who can’t forget your sins,

are you kidding me? We humans are all too happy to forget our sins… It is the consequences of those sins that we cannot forget even if we wanted to (and we so want to). You forget that sin disfigures the soul. That is why Jesus died on the cross… When we are in him, he “re-figures” our souls… Only probelm is, not too many people are, objectively speaking, “in Christ” the way He wants us to be… (Long story exactly waht i mean…)…

Jesus does when you ask Him for forgiveness. So you see, you can’t pray for the dead, that is false doctrine. Not biblical truth.

Again, i choose to believe the Church Christ established over a mere human being such as yourself… But aside from that, i trust my own experiences… which, as you know is the best teacher…

And actually, Protestants know more than what the Catholics do. You’ve just met the wrong people.

Huh?? Know more about waht?? No comprendo…

 

[distracted]

Well, Princess Di was also involved in witchcraft. She would read upon her horoscopes daily and have someone tell her about her future. It’s all the same in the form of witchcraft.

so she is likely buring in Hell as we speak??

 

[Matariel]

FYI, there is no purgatory. Once you die, you are either committed to heaven or hell.

I Corinthians 3:13 - 15
“The day will make what each one does clearly visible because fire will reveal it. That fire will determine what kind of work each person has done.
If what a person has built survives, he will receive a reward.
If his work is burned up, he will suffer the loss. However, he will be saved, though it will be like going through a fire.”

Here in Hebrews 9:27,28 says - And just as it is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died only once as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again but not to deal with our sins again. This time he will bring salvation to all those who are eagerly waiting for him.

What does this have to do with this discussion?

All people die physically, but Christ died so that we would not have to die spiritually.

Actually, every time we commit a mortal sin (called “sin unto death” in some translations) we die spiritually. That’s why it’s called “mortal” sin. And if we die in a state of mortal sin, we go straight to Hell.

We can have wonderful confidence in his saving work for us, doing away with sin-past, present and future. He has forgiven our past sin-when he died on the cross he sacrificed himself once for all;

Catholics agree. This forgiveness of original sin and past mortal sin is applied in baptism.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

he has given us the Holy Spirit to help us deal with present sin. Meaning, you ask God for forgiveness and you have a clean slate.

Yes, the usual way of doing this is the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus gave the first Bishops, the Apostles themselves, the power to forgive sin:

Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

You are the one who can’t forget your sins, but Jesus does when you ask Him for forgiveness. So you see, you can’t pray for the dead, that is false doctrine. Not biblical truth.

2Ma 12:43 And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection:
2Ma 12:44 For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead.
2Ma 12:45 And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Also, in the NT, Paul pray’s for the dead man named Onisephorus.

And actually, Protestants know more than what the Catholics do. You’ve just met the wrong people.

That’s a childish claim to make. With 2,000 years of Christian history and the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, I find it hard to fathom that some Christian sects can come along 1500 + years later and tell us we have it all wrong and they’re the ones who have it all right. I don’t think so.

 

[Matariel]

so she is likely buring in Hell as we speak??

No, we cannot say anything like that, and we shouldn’t judge anyone. She may have repented sometime before her death.

 

[distracted]

That’s a childish claim to make. With 2,000 years of Christian history and the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, I find it hard to fathom that some Christian sects can come along 1500 + years later and tell us we have it all wrong and they’re the ones who have it all right. I don’t think so.

Good post…

i thought the same thing, that that last thing was “a childish claim to make” but didn’t want to start an argument (for once in my life )… You answered it about the same way i would have… Protestants… (sorry to say) seem pretty arrogant to me…

or maybe it can all be chalked up to ignorance… and having been deceived all their lives…

 

[distracted]

No, we cannot say anything like that, and we shouldn’t judge anyone. She may have repented sometime before her death.

she’s probably in Purgatory.

John Lennon was never one to look too “Christian” but some seer in … some country by Croatia (?) says he is now in Heaven (after spending time in Purg). She says the same about other famous people… She gets visited by the souls in Purgatory and they tel her such things…

Yeah, i was skeptical at first also… but sh is such an orthodox Christian that i felt i could trust her…

 

[Matariel]

Good post…

i thought the same thing, that that last thing was “a childish claim to make” but didn’t want to start an argument (for once in my life )… You answered it about the same way i would have… Protestants… (sorry to say) seem pretty arrogant to me…

or maybe it can all be chalked up to ignorance… and having been deceived all their lives…

I used to be a Protestant. 'Til I found out that it was a religious movement made up in the 17th century by a bunch of conflicting “reformers” who created the giant coagulated ball of a monstrosity known as “Protestantism” made of thousands of daily-splintering sects. One things Protestants can do is protest. But their are a lot of confused Protestants, and a lot of good ones whose hearts’re in the right place. They just have to be shown the truth about the Universal Church.

 

[Matariel]

she’s probably in Purgatory.

John Lennon was never one to look too “Christian” but some seer in … some country by Croatia (?) says he is now in Heaven (after spending time in Purg). She says the same about other famous people… She gets visited by the souls in Purgatory and they tel her such things…

Yeah, i was skeptical at first also… but sh is such an orthodox Christian that i felt i could trust her…

It may be true, bur we should be weary of unapproved apparitions. And also, did you mean Orthodox (Eastern) or orthodox (right-believing)? The Eastern Orthodox have a different conception of purgation, methinks.

 

[distracted]

I used to be a Protestant. 'Til I found out that it was a religious movement made up in the 17th century by a bunch of conflicting “reformers” who created the giant coagulated ball of a monstrosity known as “Protestantism” made of thousands of daily-splintering sects. One things Protestants can do is protest. But their are a lot of confused Protestants, and a lot of good ones whose hearts’re in the right place. They just have to be shown the truth about the Universal Church.

What’s metaron??

Anyway, thanks for explaining. I particularly appreciated that part about Protestants being good at protesting… I guess that is natural since there is so much protesting in their world… First M Luther protested… then people protested gainst him and then people protested against those who protested against those protesters and… :banghead: uch: :hypno: so on…
I am beginning to understand them more and more… Thanks for helping…

 

[MIZER]

Jrssls posted:

You’re honestly making it harder than what it actually is. I shouldn’t have to explain it to you. Why don’t you read it, find a subject, whether it’s on faith, healing, the speaking of tongues, etc. and you will understand what I am saying. Everything in the Bible is explained to you in what you need to know.

Why don’t you just respond either to the direct questions or to the scripture that has been used to illustrate the Catholic position?

Your response here is typical. Non-Catholics don’t seem to be able to answer the questions put to them nor do they seem to be able to point directly to scripture that supports what they believe, especially when that belief is contrary to the Catholic position. So, by default, they obscure and write something like you wrote here.

It’s very frustrating. All the while you claim that your every belief is found in the Bible. Well, where is it?

Can you even attempt to answer just one of my questions? Can you defend your belief that there is no such state as purgatory, with a verse or two to back you up?

Can you point to one of the verses you’ve been shown which support a belief in a purging process before entrance is granted to heaven and show us specifically how we have it wrong?

Finally, and this is my main question for non-catholics, to which there doesn’t seem to be an answer, why are you willing to settle for a system of faith which raises so many questions for which there are seemingly no answers?

 

[distracted]

It may be true, bur we should be weary of unapproved apparitions. And also, did you mean Orthodox (Eastern) or orthodox (right-believing)? The Eastern Orthodox have a different conception of purgation, methinks.

right-believing…

i don’t know much about Easter Orthodox… except that (i think) they broke from Rome (because they didn’t accept infallability of pope??)… so i would never even read something (on that subject) written by one of them… (sound snobbish and narrow minded, but oh well… i have my reasons…)…

 

[Matariel]

What’s metaron??

Metaron is a former handle I used to use about a year ago when I came to this site. It is still an active account here. It is actually a typo of “Metatron” the highest angel in Heaven, according to Judeo-Christian legend. Similarly, Matariel is the angel of rain in Judeo-Christian legend.

Anyway, thanks for explaining. I particularly appreciated that part about Protestants being good at protesting… I guess that is natural since there is so much protesting in their world… First M Luther protested… then people protested gainst him and then people protested against those who protested against those protesters and… :banghead: uch: :hypno: so on…
I am beginning to understand them more and more… Thanks for helping…

Yes. But we must be compassionate and non-antagonistic with them. My whole family is Protestant, but I’ve convinced some of them of some things like the Real Presence and things like that; however, so far it is futile, as they woll not accept Apostolic Succession and Holy Orders, which is essential to the Sacrament.