Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

[KenEOTE]

I am not saying anythign against praying for the dead I was serious about asking. I wanted to know what was the reason.

You said I said more scandelous things what were they? Just telling me that I said something and not telling me what it is I said is not evidence.

My wife is Catholic I understand how much the Eucharist means to her.

It goes back what I said was:
I also wonder what about the Catholic who goes to mass daily even but when you talk to them about why they tell you because they always have, but they really don’t believe in it… its just a habit.
That was from talking to a man who grew up in a Catholic Church he told me he didn’t really believe what was taught but he went out of Habit. He had been going for 50 years. Was an usher in the church. He also went on to say he thought the Bible was a fairy tale and that Jesus never existed. Yet he claims to be a devout Catholic.

OK Also back to the King of the Jews. OK then Jesus is not the King of the Jews fine. Then he is not the Messiah or Christ. So are you saying that because the Jews denied he was King that he wasn’t? By that Logic he is not God either.

What do you have against him being King of the Jews I don’t understand what the big deal is?

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Communion of Saints

newadvent.org/cathen/04171a.htm
New Advent:

The communion of saints is the ***spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. ***The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (1 Corinthians 1:2 — Greek Text). The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints. ***The living, even if they do not belong to the body of the true Church, share in it according to the measure of their union with Christ and with the soul of the Church. ***St. Thomas teaches (III:8:4) that the angels, though not redeemed, enter the communion of saints because they come under Christ’s power and receive of His gratia capitis. The solidarity itself implies a variety of inter-relations: within the Church Militant, not only the participation in the same faith, sacraments, and government, but also a mutual exchange of examples, prayers, merits, and satisfactions; between the Church on earth on the one hand, and purgatory and heaven on the other, suffrages, invocation, intercession, veneration. These connotations belong here only in so far as they integrate the transcendent idea of spiritual solidarity between all the children of God.

OT:

making a gathering . . . sent twelve thousand drachmas of ***silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, ***thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead). And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

(2 Maccabees 12:43-46)

(Matthew 12:32): “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost***, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” ***

the implication is in the next life some sins will be forgiven. According to Catholic Doctrine, some sins are worse than others. Mortal sin is the sin which will not be forgiven in the next life. IOW you go straight to Hell if you die with a mortal sin on your soul. If you die with a venial sin, you will be forgiven in the next life.
nt:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15:

“For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. ***If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” ***

The passage suggests that one must go through a cleansing fire to “burn” away bad works.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You said I said more scandelous things what were they? Just telling me that I said something and not telling me what it is I said is not evidence.
qui est ce;4027885:

You have no idea how precious the Eucharist is to Catholics and how much you hurt them when you say they go to mass every day but don’t believe in it. It is anecdotal and can’t be verified. I would never back up my beliefs by quoting Jack Chick as representative of all Protestants.

My wife is Catholic I understand how much the Eucharist means to her.

I’ll keep her in my prayers

It goes back what I said was:
I also wonder what about the Catholic who goes to mass daily even but when you talk to them about why they tell you because they always have, but they really don’t believe in it… its just a habit.
That was from talking to a man who grew up in a Catholic Church he told me he didn’t really believe what was taught but he went out of Habit. He had been going for 50 years. Was an usher in the church. He also went on to say he thought the Bible was a fairy tale and that Jesus never existed. Yet he claims to be a devout Catholic.
qui est ce;4027885:

It is anecdotal and can’t be verified. I would never back up my beliefs by quoting Jack Chick as representative of all Protestants.

I never met the guy, and we’re not here to talk about that. It was an unnecessary slam.

OK Also back to the King of the Jews. OK then Jesus is not the King of the Jews fine. Then he is not the Messiah or Christ. So are you saying that because the Jews denied he was King that he wasn’t? By that Logic he is not God either.

What do you have against him being King of the Jews I don’t understand what the big deal is?

I don’t think it follows that if Jesus is not King of the Jews he is not the Messiah. I really don’t have anything against Him being King of the Jews. The problem is definition King of the Jews is too narrow. He is the King of the Kingdom Heaven, which is now on Earth, not just King of the Jews.

IOW He is not a Jewish King.

 

[qui_est_ce]

qui est ce

Actually Pilate asked Jesus are you King of the Jews and he said it is as you say. In other words yes I am.

It is YOU who say I am
It is you who SAY I am
It is you who say “I AM”

 

[KenEOTE]

I was not slamming anyone I was wondering what would happen to someone who believed as this man says he believed. Would he go to Purgatory or be damned to hell? I did not mention his name I was keeping it as vague as possible.

I was curious what woudl happen or what is the teaching of the Church on this subject. I care for this man.

Well the Mesiah is the King of the Jews. That is all I am saying. That is who the Mesiah is. He is the King of Heaven, but also in the Line of David. He is called the LIon of Judah. He is a Jewish King, and the Jewish Mesiah, the Son of God. He is all these things. Us not believing it does not change who he is.

 

[KenEOTE]

Also my wife would appreaciate the prayers.

Although I think she likes that I am inquisitive and like to have answers.

 

[KenEOTE]

It is YOU who say I am
It is you who SAY I am
It is you who say “I AM”

HE did not deny it either.

He could have said no.

By saying It is you who sai I am he is in agreement.

When you go back to the orignal texts or as far back as we can go with the Gospels and see the wording it is an agreement with what is being said.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I was not slamming anyone I was wondering what would happen to someone who believed as this man says he believed. Would he go to Purgatory or be damned to hell? I did not mention his name I was keeping it as vague as possible.

I was curious what woudl happen or what is the teaching of the Church on this subject. I care for this man.

Only God knows his soul and how much faith he is capable of. Hypothetically speaking. Does he go around saying this out loud and leading others into sin? Probably Hell. Is he having a hard time with his faith, but going through the motions because he knows it’s the right thing to do? Probably Purgatory.

Well the Mesiah is the King of the Jews. That is all I am saying. That is who the Mesiah is. He is the King of Heaven, but also in the Line of David. He is called the LIon of Judah. He is a Jewish King, and the Jewish Mesiah, the Son of God. He is all these things. Us not believing it does not change who he is.

OK

 

[KenEOTE]

That I do not know. I was just surprised by what he was saying. I did not understand why anyone would go to Church out of Habit alone if you did not believe it.

My thought is that if you go to Church simply to go and have no belief in it, what benefit is it to you? Sleep in on Sunday.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is YOU who say I am
It is you who SAY I am
It is you who say “I AM”

HE did not deny it either.

He could have said no.

By saying It is you who sai I am he is in agreement.

When you go back to the orignal texts or as far back as we can go with the Gospels and see the wording it is an agreement with what is being said.

Do you see the three meanings?

My NAB’s footnote on King of the Jews Matthew 27:37

***6 [11] King of the Jews: this title is used of Jesus only by pagans. The Matthean instances are, besides this verse, Matthew 2:2; 27:29, 37. Matthew equates it with “Messiah”; cf Matthew 2:2, 4 and Matthew 27:17, 22 where he has changed “the king of the Jews” of his Marcan source (Mark 15:9, 12) to “(Jesus) called Messiah.” The normal political connotation of both titles would be of concern to the Roman governor.

note on Matthew 26:25. An unqualified affirmative response is not made because Jesus’ kingship is not what Pilate would understand it to be.***

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew27.htm#v15

I’m not saying I disagree with you, I just think it’s interesting.

 

[qui_est_ce]

That I do not know. I was just surprised by what he was saying. I did not understand why anyone would go to Church out of Habit alone if you did not believe it.

My thought is that if you go to Church simply to go and have no belief in it, what benefit is it to you? Sleep in on Sunday.

One would think so. But Catholics stress forming good habits. That’s why I like our rituals. They keep us going during the dry spells. I go to daily mass even if I don’t feel like it. (and I usually don’t feel like it when I’m getting up at 5 AM)! But those are the times that God’s graces really amaze me.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

who are you to weigh my faith “in the balance and mete out speculative…” whatever concerning what i said…?

I’m not weighing out your faith and determining that you merit more or less time in purgatory. That was your aim. I’m only weighing the credibility of your factual assertion - i.e. Protestants spend more time in purgatory than Catholics - and I find your assertion to be utterly lacking in evidentiary support. You are welcome to try to correct my understanding. I’m not keeping you from proving your claims here.

distracted:

I am just speaking my opinion based on my knowledge, experiences & observations… which i thought was kinda the point of these forums…

Everyone has the right to speak their mind. But when your mind speaks an assertion that cannot be supported, then I think that deserves some critique. Sorry. It’s nothing personal. But unless you’ve been to Purgatory and taken a head count, or had some sort of personal revelation, your personal knowledge, experience, and observation cannot support your claim. At best, this is your personal opinion and speculation - yet you assert it as a fact in your OP and the title of your thread.

I just think that when a person makes a statement of opinion as if it were an established fact - i.e. “Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics” - they should be called to either acknowledge that it is mere speculation and opinion, or present their proof.

Thanks for acknowledging that this is merely your opinion.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[KenEOTE]

Do you see the three meanings?

My NAB’s footnote on King of the Jews Matthew 27:37

***6 [11] King of the Jews: this title is used of Jesus only by pagans. The Matthean instances are, besides this verse, Matthew 2:2; 27:29, 37. Matthew equates it with “Messiah”; cf Matthew 2:2, 4 and Matthew 27:17, 22 where he has changed “the king of the Jews” of his Marcan source (Mark 15:9, 12) to “(Jesus) called Messiah.” The normal political connotation of both titles would be of concern to the Roman governor.

note on Matthew 26:25. An unqualified affirmative response is not made because Jesus’ kingship is not what Pilate would understand it to be.***

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew27.htm#v15

I’m not saying I disagree with you, I just think it’s interesting.

Yes I do. That is also a good place to go for when people say Jesus never claimed to be God. “I AM” is a reference to God in the OT. Of course when arguing with an Atheist they don’t know that.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes I do. That is also a good place to go for when people say Jesus never claimed to be God. “I AM” is a reference to God in the OT. Of course when arguing with an Atheist they don’t know that.

I know, I thought the "you say “I AM” pretty interesting when I posted it.

Now back to Purgatory!

 

[KenEOTE]

What do you mean now back to Purgatory. I am not even dead yet don’t send me back there.

 

[qui_est_ce]

What do you mean now back to Purgatory. I am not even dead yet don’t send me back there.

Do you understand the theology of Purgatory and praying for the dead yet?

 

[KenEOTE]

I get the idea.

Here is one for you is there a chance that say a Protestant may spend less time in Purgatory then a Catholic?

I think it is an individual basis so there is that possibility.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I get the idea.

Here is one for you is there a chance that say a Protestant may spend less time in Purgatory then a Catholic?

I think it is an individual basis so there is that possibility.

I don’t like to speculate. But hypothetically speaking, most Protestants probably spend less time in Purgatory than Catholics. This is because most Protestants CHOOSE their faith and are actively involved in their churches. Many Catholics have been raied Catholic, taught the essentials of their faith, yet are inactive, don’t practice their faith.

All people will be held to the standard of their knowledge.

 

[distracted]

CoboltBlue:
you are getting forgiveness mixed up with sanctification.

Have you known someone who died recently, someone who was a Crhistian but had some sins s/he was invovled in? Do you think all such persons go straight to Heaven?

The Bible says that no impure thing will enter Heaven… Sin makes a person impure, especially mortal sin, which severs us from God (until we repent, etc.). God hates sin and will allow no stain of sin to enter His Holy dwelling Place (Heaven)… As soon as a soul with the stain of sin entered Heaven, it would cease to be Heaven… You can ignore the impurities on your soul and say that you don’t need to do anything about them… but that does not make it automatically so…

The definitiion of sin, basically, is loving something created more than the Creator… Would you want to be with your spouse after s/he had been intimate with someone else… hadn’t showered even??

 

[distracted]

IProtestants probably spend less time in Purgatory than Catholics. This is because most Protestants CHOOSE their faith and are actively involved in their churches. Many Catholics have been raied Catholic, taught the essentials of their faith, yet are inactive, don’t practice their faith.

How do you know? do you follow all Catholics around during their daily and nightly routines…? Give me a break.

and exactly what are the Protestants choosing when they “choose their faith”? They have a mental thing with Jesus… They don’t have Jesus living in their very bodies as Catholics do. Jesus said that he who eats his body and drinks his Blood has eternal life… St. John 6:27 (and no, i am not saying Prot cannot be saved… just that it is more dififuclt for them… and they have more time to spend purging their sins in Purgatoyr).

if i am not mistaken, Mary herself, who has appeared to many person around the world, says that they have to spend more time in Purgatory … i am going to bleieve her over a mere human, who aside from being human is also outside the True Chruch…

And i know that at least one canonized saint has said this…