The Roman Church prides itself of being the Rock of Peter but we both know that her teachings “evolve” (ie change over time). 300 years ago the teaching of limbo was taught by the Roman Church by all her bishops in the world but now the teaching of limbo has been forbidden. In the 1200’s all heretics and schismatics go to hell no matter what and today they just “spend more time in purgatory than catholics”. Rock of Peter indeed.
you aren’t Catholic, i presume?
Not true… Saving one from Hell… or temporary Hell otherwise known as Purgatory is NOT a waste of time… Sometimes you have to scare people into Heaven… (or, as it were - Scare the Hell out of them
)… What better work of mercy is there???Who says it does? My motive in converting (trying to) Protestants is because i care about them… For you to assume otherwise… rather says more about you than it does about me…
)… What better work of mercy is there??? Who says it does? My motive in converting (trying to) Protestants is because i care about them… For you to assume otherwise… rather says more about you than it does about me…God – you’re so clueless I wouldn’t know where to begin?
Don’t feel bad, Sola, I’m Catholic and I’m lost with that “let’s scare the crud out of them Protestants!” mentality. That’s like going fishing late in the day firing off a shotgun lol…fishers of men with weed-wackers!
As is typical of non-Catholic belief systems, your understanding is shallow and overly simplistic at best. Where does any catholic teaching say, “no matter what.” ? Indeed, Matthew’s Jesus calls Peter, the Rock.
well – isn’t what VRAC said at least somewhat true? Why not try & explain why these events don’t represent an evolution of doctrine rather than simply toss out an ad hom remark and fallacious generalizations?
That’s interesting. I read in First Things about a poll which showed that while well-versed evangelicals tend to become Catholic, it is the poorly-learned Catholics which become Protestant.
Limbo was a popular opinion once, but never an official doctrine. It is still a holdable position by Catholics, although it is just an opinion.
Unless they were invincibly ignorant of the Truth, and did not actively persue that Truth, no doubt they would be consigned to Hell. This is still a teaching of the Church.
You have no conception of Catholic theology. You need to read up on it. Ever heard of invincible ignorance, baptism of desire, mitigating circumstances?
The Scriptures do not lie; Christ payed it all, 100%. But this doesn’t have to do with Purgatory. Check out I Corinthians, where it says people with be saved “as through fire” and they are refined in the fire. This is just the same as the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. Also, we know for a fact that the early Christians prayed for the dead, and this practice continues in the Church even today.
We do not know how long Purgatory lasts relatively, and Purgatory may not be on the same time-scheme as our material world. So this question is just really speculation.
They cannot be denied, because souls in Purgatory are bound for Heaven.
Perhaps a better source can be looked at four this; I recommend you read this article:
It makes perfect sense to me. That the Church founded by Christ is any group other than the Catholic Church doesn’t make sense to me… it’s doctrinally unsound for us to accept our own speculations over against the 2,000-year-old Church founded by Christ Jesus on Saint Peter.
The Scriptures do not lie; Christ payed it all, 100%. But this doesn’t have to do with Purgatory. Check out I Corinthians, where it says people with be saved “as through fire” and they are refined in the fire. This is just the same as the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. Also, we know for a fact that the early Christians prayed for the dead, and this practice continues in the Church even today.
We do not know how long Purgatory lasts relatively, and Purgatory may not be on the same time-scheme as our material world. So this question is just really speculation.
They cannot be denied, because souls in Purgatory are bound for Heaven.
Perhaps a better source can be looked at four this; I recommend you read these articles:
It makes perfect sense to me. That the Church founded by Christ is any group other than the Catholic Church doesn’t make sense to me… it’s doctrinally unsound for us to accept our own speculations over against the 2,000-year-old Church founded by Christ Jesus on Saint Peter.
The “fire” the is refered to here is the fire of pursecution. Which the faithful have been going through since the beginning of the Chruch. What you have here is implication and implication is often misconstrude. I.E. If I tell you to go take a long walk off of a short pier. Everyone knows this implies, “Go jump in a lake.” However, if I know there is a boat at the end of that pier and I want you to get into that boat the implication then becomes misunderstood by the person I am speaking to, unless that person asks for clearification at which time they would be informed they were to get into the boat. If one is goint to work on implications then there needs to be a search for clearification.
Whether it is on the same time-scheme or not, when Christ returns all things are made new from that point forward. As long as there are people (sinners), according to RCC doctrine, there will be purgatory, but once Christ makes all things new it ceases to exist, whether all are purged or not. So, what happens to them?
Really, so the rich man was bound for heaven? Sure didn’t sound like that to me when he asked Abraham to send Lazuras to his brothers to warn them.
Thanks, I’ll look into these.
I won’t go here, it’s off subject.
Somehow I knew you would not accept any answer anyone might take the time to put to you. How do you know the fire is “implying” persecution? And how do you know that persecution doesn’t produce the effects of purgation? Isn’t that an implication you are drawing from the words? Where will you go for clarification?
oo, ouch. Not so hard… Didn’t you read the response when I said I’d research the reference that was given… Give me some credit. I do research and I do read those things that are give. As to my comment about the fire being persecution, it should have been obvious that this was a reference to Jesus’s statement that he made to the Disciples when he told them that as he was hated and persecuted that they too would be hated and persecuted. It is this persecution of which all Christians through the ages since Christs ascencion have been going through.
Sorry sabbath. I get a little impatient. So have you had a chance to read the reference that was given? What do you think now?
Yes this is obvious but the fact that Christians will be persecuted does not mean that temporal punishment or a “cleansing process” will not be required before entrance into heaven. Also, how do you respond to my question as to how you know that the persecution we might suffer has no purgatorial value? Revelations tells us that nothing unclean will enter heaven. How do you reconcile this verse with your belief that purgatory does not exist? OT believers prayed for the souls of their dead, as did the early Christians. Where were these souls, when they were in need of prayer, after bodily death?
The problem with this statement is the fact that Catholics do not merely rely on the implications presented in Scripture. We look to the Tradition which produced the written word and we look to the church, the teacher Christ left us, so that we can have clarification and an unbiased understanding of the truth. As long as you reject the teacher Christ provided you, you have only implication. Not a very strong foundation on which to base the salvation of your eternal soul.
You are telling God he is clue-less!!!