Protestants: What is the oddest thing about Catholicism?

[mercygate]

I’m not Protestant, I am a religious Jew…but I wanted to put my 2 cents in here because I’m coming around to seeing the kind of frustration Protestants must feel when they debate Catholics, because I’ve been doing it for a little bit now.

I have never before seen people try so hard, doctrinally and historically, to fit square pegs into round holes before…I have debated Protestants before, and I never had to deal with this.

I don’t care what Catholics believe, but when they try to make me accept their religion as a Jew, and I show them why a knowledgeable Jew could never accept Catholicism because of all the obvious doctrinal and historical “holes” in it from a Jewish POV, I feel like I am banging my head against the wall because they will find some way, no matter how illogical it sounds, to make their doctrines “fit”. It would drive me nuts if I had to do that all day.

But I understand now why much of Catholicism is built upon visions apparitions and the like. And why Judaism and Protestantism are not.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is just mind-blowing to me.

NOTHING in Catholic teaching is built upon "visions apparitions and ‘the like’ – whatever that may be.

I repeat: NOTHING.

 

[HashemEchad]

NOTHING in Catholic teaching is built upon "visions apparitions and ‘the like’ – whatever that may be.

I repeat: NOTHING.

Many in Catholicism believe in visions, apparitions…and the Vatican has okayed many of them.

What I meant is that many Catholics lay great store by visions, apparitions…seemingly as a substitute for logic and reasoning.

I have read many conversion stories from converts to Catholicism who say they were converted by a ‘vision from Mary’ or whatnot. Even on this forum, when faced with reasonable arguments from what I know of Jewish teaching and customs, some will respond with, “It is a gift of faith” and then begin telling me of this or that person who was converted “by a vision”.

 

[mercygate]

Many in Catholicism believe in visions, apparitions…and the Vatican has okayed many of them.

What I meant is that many Catholics lay great store by visions, apparitions…seemingly as a substitute for logic and reasoning.

I have read many conversion stories from converts to Catholicism who say they were converted by a ‘vision from Mary’ or whatnot. Even on this forum, when faced with reasonable arguments from what I know of Jewish teaching and customs, some will respond with, “It is a gift of faith” and then begin telling me of this or that person who was converted “by a vision”.

Yes. I know they do, and it drives me bonkers. My “favorite” is when a gung-ho, and insensitive anti-Catholic Protestant assaults some teaching related to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and an equally gung-ho and insensitive Catholic barks back with "But Our Lady of [fill in the blank] SAID . . . .

 

[distracted]

Is it loving your neighbor if they come to Mass seeking & you do not even say hello? Is it loving your neighbor if you ignore them & refuse to study Gods word with them in a Bible study cause you were “focused on God” Sunday morning & didn’t bother to see that someone wanted to meet?
I’m sorry, but here I see its a picture of the early church, but it looks nothing like the Catholic parishes I attended. You cannot help people with their needs if you know nothing of them.

Fellowship is not about donuts, its about showing Gods love to others, thinking of someone besides yourself. The Church is a Body of People who come together. !

and besides… donuts are not good for you.

 

[distracted]

Maybe its the area I live, but the Parishes were all much smaller than the Protestant Churches I attended. An annual Fair sounds like fun, but is more socializing than deep fellowship.

i rather like being ignored at Church… so i can focus on Jesus & Jesus only.

Jesus is very “neglected”, you know…

 

[mercygate]

We’ve come up against a “culture block” between Catholic and Protestant customs. Takes getting used to either which way.

 

[distracted]

Actually at my Protestant Church we have Fellowship before and after Church and give God about 3 hours of our undivided attention in the middle.

yes, but to be totally frank… you don’t give Jesus the kind of attention He desires because you don’t have His Real Presence in the Protestant churches…

I know you are going to “have a cow” about this… but before you answer, it would be good to spend time with Jesus in a Catholic Church for about an hour or so… Then maybe you will understand better what i say…
God bless…

 

[distracted]

How many people are hurting for Christin relationships in these parishes and you shake their hand and offer them peace but nothing else?

.

I gave up on human relationships. I learned the hard way that people don’t give a damn about you when you need them the most… It seems you have to be perfect to be loved by human beings…

so call me a cynic… I’ve been called worse…

 

[carjack]

yes, but to be totally frank… you don’t give Jesus the kind of attention He desires because you don’t have His Real Presence in the Protestant churches…

I know you are going to “have a cow” about this… but before you answer, it would be good to spend time with Jesus in a Catholic Church for about an hour or so… Then maybe you will understand better what i say…
God bless…

That is real odd considering that the Holy Spirit has been know to be around Christians outside of the Catholic Church. How do you know his presence isn’t there?

 

[chewchoo]

That is real odd considering that the Holy Spirit has been know to be around Christians outside of the Catholic Church. How do you know his presence isn’t there?

they were talking about his REAL presence, not just the spiritual presence.
jesus in the eucharist is present, body, blood soul and divinity.
yes, he is with us always in spirit, but in the church in the tabernacle he is really, truly there.

 

[mercygate]

That is real odd considering that the Holy Spirit has been know to be around Christians outside of the Catholic Church. How do you know his presence isn’t there?

Nobody could EVER deny that the Holy Spirit is busy, busy, busy and won’t stay in the house, or that Protestants are often gifted in ways that put us to shame.

But the particular WAY in which the Holy Spirit works in the Sacraments is specific.

The point is not “how do we know Christ is NOT present” sacramentally in Protestant ‘sacraments’ or ordinances. The point is that because Our Lord gave us His way of doing business in His Church, on His terms, we can know he is present only when we do what He has asked us to do.

 

[distracted]

The authority of tradition.

Also the stuff about Mary, and Purgatory.

Not attacking or anything, just answering the question frankly.

Tradition has been necessary ever since the beginning of Chrsitianity… In the beginning, preaching was the only way to spread the Gospel because for 40+ yrs after Jesus ascended to Heaven, there was no New Testament and even when there was a NT, it wasn’t in popular circulation until about the 1500s since the printing press wasn’t invented til 1440… so Christianity had to be spread through tradition… meaning practices and beliefs of the Church… (not written)…

Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant… a living ark. She is compared to the Ark in Scripture (tho no bible handy)… You know about the Ark being where God would “appear” to speak to his people??

Purgatory… I don’t have a lot of time right now, but the bible speaks of a place of cleansing… 1 Cor. 3:13… forgiveness in the next age: St. Matthew 12:32, being tormented “until the debt is paid” St. Matthew 18:23… being perfect as your father in heaven (if one is not "perfect " @ death, God, in his mercy, may give him time to finish “working out his salvation with fear and trmebling” (Purgatory)… if he is repentant.

I have to go, but if you have any questions or comments, feel free… I should be back in a couple hours…
God bless.

 

[RockyMtnGirl]

So should Protestants be turned away at the door?

I’ve been to 3 Masses in my life…2 of them were absolutely beautiful and I felt very welcome. I didn’t not participate in the Eucharist, out of respect for Catholic beliefs, but I sat in a pew and worshipped and prayed with the congregation, and it was wonderful. Should I not have been allowed to do so?

All are welcome and I am so happy that your experiences were positive … and thank you so much for respecting our tradition. Did you read the explanation (inside most missalettes) about why?

 

[jeanannemarie]

In response to the idea of unfriendliness in the Catholic Church, I can say that I too noticed that. Week after week, no recognition. I decided to be the bigger person and so I went out of my way to smile, nod, greet and so on to each person week after week. This started in about 1994. It took literally years for some of the people to come around and some even took ten years… I told myself it is not personal and even tho I believe people should be friendly, they aren’t so I did it myself. My experiment was worth while. And I didn’t have to try to find a friendlier place (not possible here,anyway.) It was a kind of “light a candle, don’t curse the darkness” thing.

 

[HashemEchad]

Yes. I know they do, and it drives me bonkers. My “favorite” is when a gung-ho, and insensitive anti-Catholic Protestant assaults some teaching related to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and an equally gung-ho and insensitive Catholic barks back with "But Our Lady of [fill in the blank] SAID . . . .

My personal favorite is the Bayside apparition (alleged)…the Veronica Leuken thingie, the ladies with the blue berets…they distribute that stuff all over my neighborhood, because this area is heavily Catholic as well as heavily Orthodox Jewish.

I dunno why but reading that Bayside stuff gives me the same creepy feeling I get when I read about things like the eucharistic Lanciano thingie, and incorrupt saint bodies. :bigyikes:

 

[Eden]

My personal favorite is the Bayside apparition (alleged)…the Veronica Leuken thingie, the ladies with the blue berets…they distribute that stuff all over my neighborhood, because this area is heavily Catholic as well as heavily Orthodox Jewish.

I dunno why but reading that Bayside stuff gives me the same creepy feeling I get when I read about things like the eucharistic Lanciano thingie, and incorrupt saint bodies. :bigyikes:

You are aware that this apparition has been rejected by the Catholic Church, right? So, why are you mentioning an apparition that is not approved by the Church? It is my understanding that we are not allowed to discuss unapproved apparitions at CA.

Bishop Francis Mugavero%between%, then Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn stated in 1986 that “a thorough investigation revealed that the alleged visions of Bayside completely lacked authenticity” and that “the messages and other related propaganda contain statements which, among other things, are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Now for an approved apparition captured on film at Zeitun, Egypt:

youtube.com/watch?v=6W9T-XQpb6Q

And Assiut, Egypt, look on the right side of the dome:

youtube.com/watch?v=fBXBaH0mNUs

What is your explanation for that?

Secondly, you may feel creepy about the Eucharistic Miracle in Lanciano and the incorruptibles but can you or an actual scientist* explain it*?

In 1973, the Higher Council of the World Health Organization (WHO) appointed a scientific commission to verify the Italian doctor’s conclusions. The work was carried out over 15 months with a total of 500 examinations. The conclusions of all the researches confirmed what had been stated and published in Italy.

The extract of the scientific research of WHO’s medical commission was published in New York and Geneva in 1976, confirming science’s inability to explain the phenomenon.

zenit.org/article-12933?l=english

Perhaps you will say this is “magic”, too.

And what about the details not discovered in the Blessed Virgin’s eyes on Juan Diego’s tilma until the 20th century, when we had the technology to study it at a microscopic level? How do you explain this one:

The scientist began his study in 1979. He magnified the iris of the Virgin’s eyes 2,500 times and, through mathematical and optical procedures, was able to identify all the people imprinted in the eyes.

The eyes reflect the witnesses of the Guadalupan miracle, the moment Juan Diego unfurled his tilma before the bishop, according to Tonsmann. In other words, the Virgin’s eyes have the reflection that would have been imprinted in the eyes of any person in her position.

In the eyes, Tonsmann believes, it is possible to discern a seated Indian, who is looking up to the heavens; the profile of a balding, elderly man with a white beard, much like the portrait of Bishop Zumárraga, painted by Miguel Cabrera, to depict the miracle; and a younger man, in all probability interpreter Juan González.

zeitun-eg.org/zenit01011420.htm

 

[Hilde89]

Tradition has been necessary ever since the beginning of Chrsitianity… In the beginning, preaching was the only way to spread the Gospel because for 40+ yrs after Jesus ascended to Heaven, there was no New Testament and even when there was a NT, it wasn’t in popular circulation until about the 1500s since the printing press wasn’t invented til 1440… so Christianity had to be spread through tradition… meaning practices and beliefs of the Church… (not written)…

Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant… a living ark. She is compared to the Ark in Scripture (tho no bible handy)… You know about the Ark being where God would “appear” to speak to his people??

Purgatory… I don’t have a lot of time right now, but the bible speaks of a place of cleansing… 1 Cor. 3:13… forgiveness in the next age: St. Matthew 12:32, being tormented “until the debt is paid” St. Matthew 18:23… being perfect as your father in heaven (if one is not "perfect " @ death, God, in his mercy, may give him time to finish “working out his salvation with fear and trmebling” (Purgatory)… if he is repentant.

I have to go, but if you have any questions or comments, feel free… I should be back in a couple hours…
God bless.

Hi, thank you for the answer:wave:

I’m having more problems with adhering to the doctrines and interpretations from the magisterium and the pope. It’s difficult to know which authority to trust, and I’m not sure I would trust myself either. But it’s a hard hurdle to come across, the feeling that if you’re going to be Catholic you have to accept everything the church teaches. In a way that’s easier because you can start off with accepting everything, and later delve into the subject and then understanding why it’s true and why you agree. But for me, that’s difficult. Both positions are difficult really.

About Mary…I believe that she has a big role, but I’m having trouble with things such as the assumption, immaculate conception and her perpetual virginity.

And the cleansing, I’m having trouble understanding it…

I’m Lutheran-Evangelical by the way - not that Protestant…if that makes any sense

 

[mercygate]

My personal favorite is the Bayside apparition (alleged)…the Veronica Leuken thingie, the ladies with the blue berets…they distribute that stuff all over my neighborhood, because this area is heavily Catholic as well as heavily Orthodox Jewish.

I dunno why but reading that Bayside stuff gives me the same creepy feeling I get when I read about things like the eucharistic Lanciano thingie, and incorrupt saint bodies. :bigyikes:

I moderate another forum where a “suspicious” Old Believer “priest” started posting. We sensed something “funny” about him and later learned that he was involved with promoting the Bayside Apparitions . . . I can’t remember if he was a Catholic priest or posing as one . . . but his career seemed to topple from one deception to another, from one Church to another . . . He was a TOTAL fraud. I spent 3 days on the phone with the Attorney General’s office in North Dakota, which was building a case against him for delinquency on various bills and tax fraud . . . .

 

[HashemEchad]

I moderate another forum where a “suspicious” Old Believer “priest” started posting. We sensed something “funny” about him and later learned that he was involved with promoting the Bayside Apparitions . . . I can’t remember if he was a Catholic priest or posing as one . . . but his career seemed to topple from one deception to another, from one Church to another . . . He was a TOTAL fraud. I spent 3 days on the phone with the Attorney General’s office in North Dakota, which was building a case against him for delinquency on various bills and tax fraud . . . .

When you say “Old Believer”, do you mean the Russian Orthodox “Old Believers”, or a Traditionalist Roman Catholic? Because I can’t see why a Russian Orthodox “Old Believer” would do anything to promote a RC shrine.

 

[mercygate]

When you say “Old Believer”, do you mean the Russian Orthodox “Old Believers”, or a Traditionalist Roman Catholic? Because I can’t see why a Russian Orthodox “Old Believer” would do anything to promote a RC shrine.

I mean “Old Believer” Old Believer. They guy mutated from Catholic to Old Believer. Now, this thread is about the “oddest thing about Catholicism” but if you want “odd” – take a look at the Old Believers!