Protestants: What would Christianity look like if the Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow?

[guanophore]

Depends on which side you are on. A progressive would say that the Vatican has gone astray so if the Church gets back to the original teachings of Christ that would be progress but not really anything new.

This statement does not make any sense to me. Why do you think a progressive (liberal?) would say that the Vatican has gone astray? It seems to me that the misunderstandings and rampant exploitation by progressives of Vat. 2 is part of what has caused the massive falling away from the faith over the course of the last 40 years!

Also, the church has never left the original teachings of Christ, before or after Vat2, so there is nothing to "get back to " in that regard. I cannot understand your point?

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

This statement does not make any sense to me. Why do you think a progressive (liberal?) would say that the Vatican has gone astray? It seems to me that the misunderstandings and rampant exploitation by progressives of Vat. 2 is part of what has caused the massive falling away from the faith over the course of the last 40 years!

Also, the church has never left the original teachings of Christ, before or after Vat2, so there is nothing to "get back to " in that regard. I cannot understand your point?

Progressives see the gospel message as being primarily about liberating the poor and oppressed, ie. Liberation Theology. They would say that the Vatican is primarily about hierarchy, inequality, wealth and power.

Though we cannot know for sure what Jesus taught, the most likely scenario is that Jesus was an Apocalyptic Prophet who believed that the world was going to end in the near future. His teachings were directed by that view, like sell all you own and give it to the poor.

From this perspective Jesus was wrong but if you still want to follow his gospel then you will need to challenge and question power structures that exploit the weak.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Protestants: What would Christianity look like if the Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow?

What is the point of this thread, other than to bait and insult Protestants when they answer?

If I were a Catholic apologist, I would say that this is a pretty stupid thread, since the Church is of God and cannot fail nor be in error.

I mean, give us all a break.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Would it be powerful or insignificant?

Do you believe in the secret rapture…LOL! Are you saying the Protesants will be Left Behind?

 

[Nominefili]

Well I think it would depend on what happened to all the Catholics. Would they go to the Eastern Orthodox church or perhaps more traditional Protestant churches?

Either way it would be a shame, because the Catholic church does great work in the world for charity and promoting Christian morals. They have the resources to get things done.

 

[JustaServant]

Well I think it would depend on what happened to all the Catholics. Would they go to the Eastern Orthodox church or perhaps more traditional Protestant churches?

Either way it would be a shame, because the Catholic church does great work in the world for charity and promoting Christian morals. They have the resources to get things done.

Exactly the point I am trying to make with the thread, Does the non-Catholic world have the resources? Would they have the influence?
This is not a thread to attack Protestants. I am however trying to get some here to see the forest from a bird’s eye view, instead of the trees of our pet theologies.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by Nominefili
Well I think it would depend on what happened to all the Catholics. Would they go to the Eastern Orthodox church or perhaps more traditional Protestant churches?

Either way it would be a shame, because the Catholic church does great work in the world for charity and promoting Christian morals. They have the resources to get things done.

Exactly the point I am trying to make with the thread, Does the non-Catholic world have the resources? Would they have the influence?
This is not a thread to attack Protestants. I am however trying to get some here to see the forest from a bird’s eye view, instead of the trees of our pet theologies.

Charity and Christian morals are important, but it’s not the gospel that rescue sinners from their condemned condition. Unbelievers can have greater acts of charity than Christians. And atheists can also have good morals.

 

[Nominefili]

Charity and Christian morals are important, but it’s not the gospel that rescue sinners from their condemned condition.

I agree 100%.

Unbelievers can have greater acts of charity than Christians. And atheists can also have good morals.

Once again I agree with you. However, as it stands now, the Catholic church is doing good things in the world and spreading the Gospel at the same time, so it would be a shame to see that suddenly disappear. That’s all I was trying to say.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I think it is healthy when Catholics question official Church teaching. When I read posts of people agonizing over things like birth control, confession, is this or that a sin, I feel bad for them because I know how official Catholicism can keep people in an infantile state where they are scared to think for themselves.

Scared to think for themselves?

Really?

What about all of us who were Protestant at some point and our thinking for ourselves led us to become Catholic based upon the bible, history and logic?

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by JRKH
In part I understand what you are saying here, but in actuality it is the people themselves who are keeping themselves in the “infantile state” and not the Church. The Church keeps trying to help and to clarify things.

Frankly - No this has never struck me as strange. The Priest, no matter his age, bears this title - father.
And no I have never found it strange to go into a room and confess to the Priest. Difficult perhaps but not strange at all.

When the Church tries to clarify it often sounds like they are desperately trying to make sense out of things that don’t make sense, the teachings on birth control are a good example. The Church came very close to changing this teaching but did not because they would have to admit they made a mistake and are not infalliable.

Perhaps this is because you are reading into these explanations some sense of desparation simply because they do not agree with your preconceived notions. I’m not saying this is so, but it certainly is possible.
As far as dealing with any specific teachings such as birth control, since I have only been back for about three years I guess I missed the discussions on this matter. Of course it does not matter since Christ, through His Church has given settled the matter.

Also I love it when someone quotes only a portion of one of my posts. Making no comment on the true subtance which in this case is was teh propensity for humans to try to “What if” their way out of something being a sin.
In fact I would say you provide and example of this above by reading into Church teachings what you think it “Sounds like…”. Such attitudes provide one with an way to reject the teachings without actually having to consider the matter fully.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Scared to think for themselves?

Really?

What about all of us who were Protestant at some point and our thinking for ourselves led us to become Catholic based upon the bible, history and logic?

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Scared to think for themselves?

Really?

What about all of us who were Protestant at some point and our thinking for ourselves led us to become Catholic based upon the bible, history and logic?

I too was a Protestant who converted to the Catholicism. Religion is not logical and the more you think about what you believe, the more you will realize it does not make any sense at all. God? Spirit? There is no definition for these words that even makes sense.

 

[PRmerger]

I too was a Protestant who converted to the Catholicism. Religion is not logical and the more you think about what you believe, the more you will realize it does not make any sense at all. God? Spirit? There is no definition for these words that even makes sense.

In one sense, yes, you are correct. To paraphrase St. Augustine: if you can understand Him, this is not God.

On the other hand, what have the thousands of theologians been discussing over the centuries that have filled catechisms, encyclicals, theology books–has it just been fluff? Just nonsense that people–sometimes even erudite and intelligent–have bought?

And, what about the grandmother with an 8th grade education who can articulate, from her mind and heart’s understanding, theological concepts so profound it would make Aquinas’ draw drop? Is she just talking gibberish?

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

In one sense, yes, you are correct. To paraphrase St. Augustine: if you can understand Him, this is not God.

On the other hand, what have the thousands of theologians been discussing over the centuries that have filled catechisms, encyclicals, theology books–has it just been fluff? Just nonsense that people–sometimes even erudite and intelligent–have bought?

And, what about the grandmother with an 8th grade education who can articulate, from her mind and heart’s understanding, theological concepts so profound it would make Aquinas’ draw drop? Is she just talking gibberish?

Theology - An effort to explain the unknowable by putting it into terms of the not worth knowing. - H.L. Mencken

Anyone can make up a theological concept. Today I was considering that maybe God did not exist until Jesus was born. Catholics believe that Jesus is God and that Mary is the Mother of God, maybe the stories in the OT were just prophetic dreams that became a reality in the Godman Jesus. The only definition of god that we can understand is a superhuman, the stories about Jesus sure sound like those of a superhuman. Theology is easy because anything goes.

 

[PRmerger]

Theology - An effort to explain the unknowable by putting it into terms of the not worth knowing. - H.L. Mencken

Anyone can make up a theological concept. Today I was considering that maybe God did not exist until Jesus was born. Catholics believe that Jesus is God and that Mary is the Mother of God, maybe the stories in the OT were just prophetic dreams that became a reality in the Godman Jesus. The only definition of god that we can understand is a superhuman, the stories about Jesus sure sound like those of a superhuman. Theology is easy because anything goes.

Theology is important because Truth is important. And because Jesus Christ is the Truth.

Ironically, what you have explained above is Theology. Some of it wrong theology, but theology nonetheless. Any time you’re trying to discuss God and one’s understanding of it, you’re professing your theology. Nothing wrong with that on these forums!

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Theology is important because Truth is important. And because Jesus Christ is the Truth.

Ironically, what you have explained above is Theology. Some of it wrong theology, but theology nonetheless. Any time you’re trying to discuss God and one’s understanding of it, you’re professing your theology. Nothing wrong with that on these forums!

Well theology is interesting. I know my proposed theory would be considered heretical but I wonder if anyone else has promoted it in history.

 

[PRmerger]

Well theology is interesting. I know my proposed theory would be considered heretical but I wonder if anyone else has promoted it in history.

No doubt it’s not a new heresy. There’s nothing new under the sun, is there, when it comes to discussing theology?

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

No doubt it’s not a new heresy. There’s nothing new under the sun, is there, when it comes to discussing theology?

What I’m saying is that God never existed until Jesus was born. There were a lot of stories about gods in Pagan and Hebrew mythology but they were never historically true yet maybe the supernatural stories about Jesus were.

Of course this means that God did not create the world, God came out of the world. I have never heard this idea before in relation to Jesus. I guess this is how new religions start.

 

[PRmerger]

What I’m saying is that God never existed until Jesus was born. There were a lot of stories about gods in Pagan and Hebrew mythology but they were never historically true yet maybe the supernatural stories about Jesus were.

Of course this means that God did not create the world, God came out of the world. I have never heard this idea before in relation to Jesus. I guess this is how new religions start.

Yes, I get what you’re saying. And I’m saying that there’s nothing new under the sun. I’m guessing that you’re not the first to come up with this idea.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Yes, I get what you’re saying. And I’m saying that there’s nothing new under the sun. I’m guessing that you’re not the first to come up with this idea.

Yes you are probably right, someone else has thought of it too yet it has never become popular. Not a bad theory though, at least you could believe in a God that you can understand (a superhuman being, not an invisible spirit) and also you do not have to believe he created a world filled with suffering.