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faithalone1
Guest
yep i believe i can lose my salvation too.I’m NOT a calvinist. Free will, i agree.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
You keep talking about faith and how the so called Catholic monopoly kept people from knowing salvation but you haven’t told us how anyone is supposed to get faith under such a monopoly.those priests and monks upheld a monopoly. the CC has been as much a political force as religious. i just dont think the CC has the keys to the kingdom. Salvation is by faith in ones heart, not by a church with a supreme pontiff. thats my view
You can’t answer this question.
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faithalone1
Guest
Gods grace through faith.yep. faith without works IS dead thats not faith. Saved to obey. we do good BECAUSE we’re saved. it is gift, and cant be earned. it is the gift of God, not of works.yep“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” - Ephesians 2:8-9
We are not saved by faith, nor are we saved by works. We are saved by God’s grace, through our faith, and that faith is expressed/matured/maintained by the works we do. Works without faith mean nothing, and faith without works is dead.
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stewstew03
Guest
This notion that Europe suddenly became literate and their eyes were opened to “the truth” is just ridiculous. Most Europeans were still illiterate up until the mid 18th-century, long after the Reformation. To Luther’s credit, with the Reformation came propaganda and “cartoon” portrayals of Lutheran dogma. And given that most people were either illiterate or too poor to afford their own bibles, Luther’s political cartoons were well-received.if I’m illiterate and you teach me the word thats all i have to go by. But once people could see for themselves, the rest is history.
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Marie_Gregg
Guest
I don’t think that anyone, Catholic or otherwise, is disagreeing with you.Gods grace through faith.yep. faith without works IS dead thats not faith. Saved to obey. we do good BECAUSE we’re saved. it is gift, and cant be earned. it is the gift of God, not of works.yep
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faithalone1
Guest
if the priests are teaching people to have faith in JC as Lord and Savior then beyond that they would be inservitude to the church IMO. saying Faith and Works is dangerous to me because you end up focusing on the works and forgetting the faith. Saved to obey. but no church can provide salvation.You keep talking about faith and how the so called Catholic monopoly kept people from knowing salvation but you haven’t told us how anyone is supposed to get faith under such a monopoly.
You can’t answer this question.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
How?Gods grace through faith.yep. faith without works IS dead thats not faith. Saved to obey. we do good BECAUSE we’re saved. it is gift, and cant be earned. it is the gift of God, not of works.yep
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Cat_Herder
Guest
Well, were they doing that? If so then what was the point of the Reformation?if the priests are teaching people to have faith in JC as Lord and Savior .
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Nicea325
Guest
You still did not answer: Where does the Bible clearly declare it is the ONLY infallible authority?well i believe GOD is infallible and i believe the bible to be the word of god. passed on, protected for centuries,cannonized and made into the book of our civilization. 40 authors, 3 languages,1600 years to write by bronze age sheepherders. No other source can equal that for me. studying bible history shows how amazing it really is.
No one is saying the Bible does not contain the Word of God because the CC declared it long before any Protestant existed. Yes God is infallible and in order to canonize the Word of God,then God had His infallible CHURCH do the task. It is not a question of WHAT God can do (canonize the Bible);moreover,it is HOW God did it. Through His Holy Catholic Apostolic Church through its bishops,thus your argument the Bible is the only infallible authority is false. Jesus founded His Church…He did not give us the Bible.
Apparently you are kicking a lot of facts to the curb.
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Nicea325
Guest
Wrong! False dichotomy. Did St. Paul or any Apostle teach: either focus on faith or works,but you cannot have both. St. James Letter is at odds with you.No church can provide salvation? Jesus would beg to differ. Ephesians 1:22-23:if the priests are teaching people to have faith in JC as Lord and Savior then beyond that they would be inservitude to the church IMO. saying Faith and Works is dangerous to me because you end up focusing on the works and forgetting the faith. Saved to obey. but no church can provide salvation.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
So how is it…Jesus mystical Body, the church, not be capable of saving?
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faithalone1
Guest
if people were told that Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose 3 days later and believed they were saved.Answer the question…
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faithalone1
Guest
If i go to a catholic church I’m saved. 1.5 billion people do that. I’m sorry but no church can provide salvation. jesus also said the Kingdom of heaven is within you. To me the idea of a supreme pontiff or head bishop is unbiblical. Peter didnt “outrank” John, matthew or even Paul.Wrong! False dichotomy. Did St. Paul or any Apostle teach: either focus on faith or works,but you cannot have both. No church can provide salvation? Jesus would beg to differ. Ephesians 1:22-23:
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
So how is it…Jesus mystical Body, the church, not be capable of saving?
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Marie_Gregg
Guest
Okay.if people were told that Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose 3 days later and believed they were saved.
However…
In John 14:15, Jesus says, “If you love Me, You will obey what I command/keep my commandments.” That, to me, says that what we do with the grace and the faith we have been given (and I do believe that both come from God) matters.
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faithalone1
Guest
Ok, I’ll play. where did the bible declare that the Bishop of Rome is supreme? The word of god has been and will always be infallible. for centuries it was Oral and written. Now we have it in written form everywhere. the bible trumps rome. thats what it comes down to here.You still did not answer: Where does the Bible clearly declare it is the ONLY infallible authority?
No one is saying the Bible does not contain the Word of God because the CC declared it long before any Protestant existed. Yes God is infallible and in order to canonize the Word of God,then God had His infallible CHURCH do the task. It is not a question of WHAT God can do (canonize the Bible);moreover,it is HOW God did it. Through His Holy Catholic Apostolic Church through its bishops,thus your argument the Bible is the only infallible authority is false. Jesus founded His Church…He did not give us the Bible.
Apparently you are kicking a lot of facts to the curb.
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faithalone1
Guest
But Rome (catholics) wrote the bible you say! True and God made sure his word was recorded accurately. Thank you.Ok, I’ll play. where did the bible declare that the Bishop of Rome is supreme? The word of god has been and will always be infallible. for centuries it was Oral and written. Now we have it in written form everywhere. the bible trumps rome. thats what it comes down to here.
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Nicea325
Guest
Here…try again:If i go to a catholic church I’m saved. 1.5 billion people do that. I’m sorry but no church can provide salvation. jesus also said the Kingdom of heaven is within you. To me the idea of a supreme pontiff or head bishop is unbiblical. Peter didnt “outrank” John, matthew or even Paul.
And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Explain how you separate salvation from Christ Body…the church? Well your idea of no bishop not being the head is unbiblical too. Rank? Do angels have rank? Was Christ ranked higher than any of the 12? Was Jesus ranked above the angels? So what makes you think God is not capable of placing one human above another?
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faithalone1
Guest
God is Perfect, when he calls you obey his word to glorify him. Saved to Obey. I’m not a OSAS Protestant. We do good(try to do good) Because we’re saved.Okay.
However…
In John 14:15, Jesus says, “If you love Me, You will obey what I command/keep my commandments.” That, to me, says that what we do with the grace and the faith we have been given (and I do believe that both come from God) matters.
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Bballer32
Guest
If you look at the way at how most Catholic Churches are built, you can see that they are built in the same form as the 12 tribes tent of the Ark.A big change in the church occured starting about 100 AD , the change was that the leadership of the church switched from jewish to gentile . the new gentile leaders of the church were not grounded in the jewish roots of the christian faith.
Also after 412 AD when Christianity became the religion of the roman empire , many of the old pagan reliigious preist were absorbed into the church . In this many of the pagan practices came with them.
Another thing; the Catholic Church began before the New Testament was even put together. The roots of the Church are from both old and new testament. So, don’t go saying that we lost our Jewish roots. Our entire faith is Dependent upon the Old Testament!!
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Nicea325
Guest
And where does it say: Bishop of Antioch? Bishop of Ephesus? Where does it say about owning a canonized Bible? Should I go on?Ok, I’ll play. where did the bible declare that the Bishop of Rome is supreme? The word of god has been and will always be infallible. for centuries it was Oral and written. Now we have it in written form everywhere. the bible trumps rome. thats what it comes down to here.
And where in the Bible does it state or teach it has to say everything explicitly?
Where in the bible does declare: a 27 NT canon?
Chapter and verse…please.
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faithalone1
Guest
His body is made up of all who have Faith in him. I agree. I just dont believe that the CC owns the copyright. The apostles spread out and preached the gospel. The Orthodox way of “governing”? chirstianity was used for a long time, but then Rome became supreme. interesting.Here…try again:
And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Explain how you separate salvation from Christ Body…the church? Well your idea of no bishop not being the head is unbiblical too. Rank? Do angels have rank? Was Christ ranked higher than any of the 12? Was Jesus ranked above the angels? So what makes you think God is not capable of placing one human above another?
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