Protestants who accept OSAS: How do you explain these scriptures?

[Prodigal_Son1]

(1 Cor. 9:27) has the word “castaway” in it, which gives the wrong message.
The Greek word is “adokimos”, which means “not approved”.
There is a big difference in meaning here. “Not approved” would mean that the extra prize (rewards) of running the race well would be lost, but that does not necessarily mean that salvation would also be lost.
Salvation is a gift of God which is not earned or it would not be “by grace”.

Castaway or not approved, I think are the same in the context he uses it, why did St. Paul think he could possibly be either if he believed once saved always saved? You seem to be saying there are different states of grace but deny different states of sin to me?

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[brkn1]

Just as Peter spoke of our Lord’s death in the flesh but elivened in the spirit, when he preached to those spirits in prison, I believe 1 Peter 4:6 to be also speaking of spirits no longer in the flesh. I’ve added more verses in post 57 that I feel helps support the Catholic teaching of purgatory.

You didn’t address the other verses in the same post I had put 1 Peter 4:6. Do you agree with those or is there another reason you overlooked them?

I thought you were used to my “selective answers” by now.
I chose not to be forced to answer every question and I do not expect others to do so for me.
You would put me at quite a disadvantage if I was required to answer every question you posed, since I am in the minority.
Some questions posted are not worth answering as I see them, although I might not be referring to your questions. I may get back to some of yours later.

I have bolded and underlined part of your statement above. Doesn’t this statement go against your previous statement that once saved always saved, or those who sin were never really saved to begin with? Afterall, once saved a person sins no more is what I understood you to say. How could one in such a state of grace die with unforgiven sins?

Also in post 57 are verses that question once saved always saved.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

A saved person can still sin when his “old man” nature has its way. Those sins will mess up the saved person’s fellowship with God and man, if they are not confessed and repented of. Those sins have already been forgiven by God once a person is born again. Those sins will have penalties on earth and later in heaven if they are not properly resolved once committed. They will not ruin a saved person’s salvation, which is permanent and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
The “new creature” nature that a born again person receives does not sin, since it is described as “incorruptible”. I would be interested in how you explain that an “incorruptible nature” gets lost or corrupted.

 

[brkn1]

Castaway or not approved, I think are the same in the context he uses it, why did St. Paul think he could possibly be either if he believed once saved always saved? You seem to be saying there are different states of grace but deny different states of sin to me?

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

Paul was talking about rewards, not salvation.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

(1 Cor. 9:27) has the word “castaway” in it, which gives the wrong message.
The Greek word is “adokimos”, which means “not approved”.
There is a big difference in meaning here. “Not approved” would mean that the extra prize (rewards) of running the race well would be lost, but that does not necessarily mean that salvation would also be lost.
Salvation is a gift of God which is not earned or it would not be “by grace”.

ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok’-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Thought I would provide the definition of adokimos so you could see, unapproved or castaway it’s still the same and respectfully I disagree with your interpretation of rewards unless you mean heaven as the reward. Being rejected from the reward of heaven is losing your salvation or having to go through a purgation prior to entering heaven.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[jfallaw]

There is a difference between being uncomfortable in the presence of God and being tortured.

I seem to be getting mixed messages from Catholics on purgatory, but that is another issue…and honestly one way down on the food chain for me. Anyway…

I don’t necessarily believe OSAS anyway…so I can’t answer the premise of this thread.

it was torture when i gave up smoking. i think jesus is using what is called an analogy- explaining an advanced subject in language the local idiots can understand. the problem is with people wanting to take the Bible literally in every single verse when it was just simply not written that way.

 

[Mannyfit75]

OSAS is a false doctrine. It is in fact it a new doctrine form out of the heresy of Protestantism.

 

[brkn1]

ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok’-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Thought I would provide the definition of adokimos so you could see, unapproved or castaway it’s still the same and respectfully I disagree with your interpretation of rewards unless you mean heaven as the reward. Being rejected from the reward of heaven is losing your salvation or having to go through a purgation prior to entering heaven.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

There are differences in reward for those that go to heaven.
“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so they persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

You folks are not sure about your salvation, but it is different for me. I know that I have been saved, since the Bible clearly points out that my faith in what Jesus did for me gives me eternal salvation, which is a gift of God not based on works.

My rewards will be even greater in heaven, since you and others are persecuting me for believing the truth.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

There are differences in reward for those that go to heaven.
“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so they persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

You folks are not sure about your salvation, but it is different for me. I know that I have been saved, since the Bible clearly points out that my faith in what Jesus did for me gives me eternal salvation, which is a gift of God not based on works.

My rewards will be even greater in heaven, since you and others are persecuting me for believing the truth.

Ironic to me that you see differences in rewards for those in heaven, yet can’t see the differences of sin on earth.

Actually, us “folks” admit we are sinners. I don’t think you could find a Catholic here that presumes themself to be as perfect as Christ.

I for one would never assume I have the mind of God and could pass judgement on others. Seems protestants have no problem with that though. Maybe one day a protestant will tell me their interpretation of Judge not lest ye be judged.

I know about your opinion of your private interpretation of the Bible being correct…over all others.

You are not being persecuted. You came here to persecute the one true Catholic Church, we are merely defending our faith here.

I’m glad you are assured salvation. It is a major feat according to scriptures.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

Rom 8:16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit that we are the sons of God.
Rom 8:17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

1Co 9:27 But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore, he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.

2Ti 2:11 A faithful saying: for if we be dead with him, we shall live also with him.
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins:
Heb 10:27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries.

**Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? **

Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Jas 2:26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead: so also faith without works is dead.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by Charity.

1Co 13:2 And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Joh 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

Mat 19:16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
Mat 19:17 Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?
Mat 19:17 Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

Rom 2:2 For we know that the judgment of God is, according to truth, against them that do such things.
Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them who do such things and dost the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and patience and longsuffering? Knowest thou not that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance?
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his works.
Rom 2:7 To them indeed who, according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But to them that are contentious and who obey not the truth but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation.

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by Charity.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.
Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
Php 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.

Jas 2:14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?
Jas 2:15 And if a brother or sister be naked and want daily food:
Jas 2:16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?
Jas 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
Jas 2:18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works. Shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou that faith did cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Seems scriptures indicates faith plus works, but then I don’t rely on my private interpretation.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[brkn1]

Ironic to me that you see differences in rewards for those in heaven, yet can’t see the differences of sin on earth.

Actually, us “folks” admit we are sinners. I don’t think you could find a Catholic here that presumes themself to be as perfect as Christ.

I for one would never assume I have the mind of God and could pass judgement on others. Seems protestants have no problem with that though. Maybe one day a protestant will tell me their interpretation of Judge not lest ye be judged.

I know about your opinion of your private interpretation of the Bible being correct…over all others.

You are not being persecuted. You came here to persecute the one true Catholic Church, we are merely defending our faith here.

I’m glad you are assured salvation. It is a major feat according to scriptures.

Seems scriptures indicates faith plus works, but then I don’t rely on my private interpretation.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

God only saves sinners. That is who He came to save. You are the ones saying that once we sin, we then lose the salvation that comes with being born again.
I already explained how a born again person has two natures.
There is the original sin nature that all have. It can do no good as far as God is concerned. A born again person still has that nature even after obtaining the new incorruptible nature from true faith in Jesus and the work He did to redeem us.
The old sin-nature does not disappear until the death of the physical body. An unsaved person does not have the new incorruptible divine nature at death to save him. He goes into eternity condemned at death.
A saved person can never lose that divine nature that is given by the Holy Spirit to all that come to Jesus in true saving faith as the Father calls them.
If you are not assured of your salvation, then you might not have true saving faith. Faith is complete trust in Jesus Christ and His one redeeming sacrifice for us.

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE (present tense) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” (1 John 5:11-13)

How much more clear does God have to make it for you?
You have to reject Scripture to reject what is clearly stated here.
You judge yourself by rejecting such a clear statement of present eternal salvation.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Paul was talking about rewards, not salvation.

is it not salvation our reward? enlight me please on this.

read what Jesus says on the last day, the day of judgement.
didnt He send some to eternal denmination and the others the reward of entering Heaven wiht Him?

Peace.

 

[SD_Catholic]

A saved person can still sin when his “old man” nature has its way. Those sins will mess up the saved person’s fellowship with God and man, if they are not confessed and repented of. Those sins have already been forgiven by God once a person is born again. Those sins will have penalties on earth and later in heaven if they are not properly resolved once committed. They will not ruin a saved person’s salvation, which is permanent and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
The “new creature” nature that a born again person receives does not sin, since it is described as “incorruptible”. I would be interested in how you explain that an “incorruptible nature” gets lost or corrupted.

Now we get penalized in heaven too? Why would a pure soul in the fullness of God’s grace be penalized and where do you get this?

SD

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE (present tense) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” (1 John 5:11-13)

How much more clear does God have to make it for you?
You have to reject Scripture to reject what is clearly stated here.
You judge yourself by rejecting such a clear statement of present eternal salvation.

Catholics don’t reject scripture, nor do we rely on one verse here and there. I have provided a lot of scriptures stating it takes faith and works and can provide lots more, but they seem of no consequence to a single verse you have produced. Clarity comes from the whole story, not a single line or two. In other words, we believe in the Son of God as stated in 1 John 5:11-13. We also believe in other scriptures, and traditions, that define the plan of God for our salvation.

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

2Th 2:15 (2:14) Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

2Th 3:6 And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.

The Apostles were taught many things by Christ, things that they passed down through the Church. We all know Christ did not write anything down, but passed His words through the Apostles He chose.

During the time of Christ and after, there were no scriptures for the masses to read. An example is in the belief that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible. Teachings were passed through oral tradition. When Christ taught from “scripture” in the synagogues, it was through oral tradition. When the Apostles went out to teach all nations, it was through oral traditon. Most letters in the Bible were written because the Apostles could not travel due to arrests.

Alot of the New Testament was written from oral tradition as St. Luke, St. Mark and St. Paul were not eyewitnesses of Christ. They wrote what they learned from oral tradition.

Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my word shall not pass away.

Christ knew His words would not pass away and told us so when He built His Church upon Peter.

Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

The Catholic Church has survived 2000 years and nothing has prevailed against it so far, not even the reformation of men who, through private interpretations, discarded traditions. Since protestants believe the Catholic Church to be false, I would like a clear explanation from a protestant explaining how they think Christ abandoned mankind for 1500 years before revealing himself through “private” interpretations.

You use your words to stir the emotions of Catholics yet you refuse to address specific scriptures provided. For example, look at your post number 67, it offers no scripture or other documentation but only your words of personal belief which you have stated comes from your own private interpretation. This appears to be discarding or rejecting scriptures, as you accuse us of doing, because they don’t endorse your interpretations.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[distracted]

If Jesus said, “Depart from me, I never knew you…”, then that person would qualified as not ever having been saved in the first place.

This doesn’t make sense… If a person is at a church service (non-Catholic… been to many…), goes forward and gives his heart to Jesus… and lives as a Christian for awhile, but then, say… gets tempted and fails to resist the temptation… HOw can you say he was never saved? Even “saved” people (myself included) fall from grace at times …because we are so frail… it is a person’s choice whether to get back up again or not… a person can be right with Christ one day and then because of sin, fall away from Him and not be right with him the next… I feel you OSAS people are trying to make the Bible say what you say it says … Martin Luther did that…

It would be hard for me to believe that the forgiven servant was “saved”, since a truly saved person would not immediately go out and demonstrate such an unforgiving spirit with others afterwards.

people do it all the time… In fact, i feel that 99% of Christians find it difficult to impossible to forgive at least one person in their lives… Jesus said that the way to eternal life is NARROW & that there are “few who find it”…

I can see where the idea of purgatory might be pointed to in these verses. If you consider that the wicked servant was delivered to the torturers until a ten thousand talent debt was paid, then it is obvious that the debt would never be paid.

How do you figure? Ten thousand talents is a finite number…

The wicked servant could never pay such a debt while being tortured.

says who??? Does it say that in the Bible?

Purgatory would be the equivalent of eternal hell in that case.

Purgatory, in its lower levels IS the equvalent of Hell… (just not eternal Hell).,

If you are saying that such a “sin debt” could be paid by our own suffering, then Jesus did not have to suffer in our place.

you don’t understand Purgatory… a person suffers because he is in Absolute Truth in Purgatory… It is the Truth that tortures him, the truth of his soul’s condition and how much it has to go through in order to be purified… Sin is waht makes the soul resistant to purification… (No unclean thing will enter Heaven - Rev 21:27).

Another reason it does not seem to be talking about “purgatory” is that the wicked servant was going to be required at first to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had on earth etc. We are going to be individually responsible at death, not jointly responsible with our offspring and relatives.

that is not the punishment the unjust servant got in the end (for not forgiving his fellow man)… but even so, the parable is possibly making use of the customs at that time… Parables are parables, not to be taken absolutely literally… or literally at all…

 

[distracted]

to this:

OSAS is a false doctrine. It is in fact it a new doctrine form out of the heresy of Protestantism.

 

[distracted]

If you die with any sin unforgiven, you have died in your sins and you will be eternally condemned.

this totally contradicts the OSAS position… and is extremely harsh… Any sin?? Even if i gossip about someone for a half a minute…? eternal Hell?? I thought a person was saved by grace?? are OSAS people trying to have it both ways??

A person who is born again is given by God a new nature that is incorruptible and unable to sin.

Oh, so now OSAS people who are really “saved” do not sin? Well, the Bible that you claim to believe in says that ALL have sinned (all humans)… and come short of the glory of God…

. All of the sins of that nature (our old man) are “crucified with Christ” once we have believed and been sealed permanently by the Holy Spirit into Jesus’ sacrifice as our substitute sin-bearer in our place.

you are speaking of baptism… but people fall from the grace of their baptisms… which is why the Church has the sacrament of confession…

(Galatians 2:20) "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:

Christ living in a person does not take away that person’s free will to sin… It is human nature to want both Jesus AND [fill in the blanks]…

The “old man” dies with the flesh for a born again person. It was already crucified with Christ as soon as the new birth occurred.

again, this is true, but it is not a once-only thing… meaning that we have to “re-covert” many, mnay times before death… we must renounce our sins every time we commit them… and ask forgiveness (preferably through confession to a priest).

0-a It does not go to “purgatory”. All sins of that “old man” are covered by Christ’s sacrifice,

So once someone accepts Christ… he doesn’t sin?? or if he does, it is no big deal?? This believe is far more confusing than i ever realized… It totally does not make sense…

but then why should anyone be surprised… it comes from the heretic Luther…

 

[Lilyflower]

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself:

I love and earnestly desire to love God with all my heart, all my soul all my strength and all my mind. Thus I am saved.

If I am called from this life this very day, I am most unworthy and unready to go into the Heavenly Kingdom. I judge myself totally unworthy of this priviledge. I ask God to let me go to make myself ready and may I in His mercy take as long as it takes I ask only that He will have mercy on my poor soul.

Blessings and peace

 

[brkn1]

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself:

I love and earnestly desire to love God with all my heart, all my soul all my strength and all my mind. Thus I am saved.

If I am called from this life this very day, I am most unworthy and unready to go into the Heavenly Kingdom. I judge myself totally unworthy of this priviledge. I ask God to let me go to make myself ready and may I in His mercy take as long as it takes I ask only that He will have mercy on my poor soul.

Blessings and peace

We all are most unworthy as you say.
Except for His great love and mercy, we would be lost forever.
God so loved us that He gave His only begotten Son to redeem us from our sin and make it possible for us to become the children of the Father in Christ our Lord.
The recognition that you explained about our unworthiness is one of the most important parts of what God looks for in those He redeems. Our resulting desire to gratefully and humbly respond to God’s love by loving, obeying, and praising God in return is what He looks for and enjoys.

 

[brkn1]

I have read the latest responses, but I would rather go into new territory if you would allow me.

I have given my understanding of what being born again means.
The RCC position seems to base the required born again experience on physical baptism, but they do not seem to be very clear about whether there is a resulting extra incorruptible divine nature that becomes part of a born-again person’s being.
I tried to be clear that there are two natures:

1. the original sin-nature that all men are born with.
2. a new permanent incorruptible and divine nature (new creature) that is planted by the Holy Spirit at the new birth.

The original sin nature can still cause us to sin if we do not resist it with our new nature. We grieve the Holy Spirit when we sin and the Father will chastise us as His children to stop such sinning.

The new divine nature does not sin and remains permanently a part of us forever. It can not be lost or corrupted. It can grow if we nurture it by obeying God. Lost people do not have it and are not children of God.

With this explanation on my part, I would be very interested in how the RCC position differs from my position.
OSAS is based on my position.

If you say that there is no such extra nature or that it can be lost after having been obtained, then we have a difference that can easily be described and understood.

My impression is that the RCC believes that the old nature just gets cleansed and that there is no new divine nature as the Bible points to.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have read the latest responses, but I would rather go into new territory if you would allow me.

I have given my understanding of what being born again means.
The RCC position seems to base the required born again experience on physical baptism, but they do not seem to be very clear about whether there is a resulting extra incorruptible divine nature that becomes part of a born-again person’s being.
I tried to be clear that there are two natures:

1. the original sin-nature that all men are born with.
2. a new permanent incorruptible and divine nature (new creature) that is planted by the Holy Spirit at the new birth.

The original sin nature can still cause us to sin if we do not resist it with our new nature. We grieve the Holy Spirit when we sin and the Father will chastise us as His children to stop such sinning.

The new divine nature does not sin and remains permanently a part of us forever. It can not be lost or corrupted. It can grow if we nurture it by obeying God. Lost people do not have it and are not children of God.

With this explanation on my part, I would be very interested in how the RCC position differs from my position.
OSAS is based on my position.

If you say that there is no such extra nature or that it can be lost after having been obtained, then we have a difference that can easily be described and understood.

My impression is that the RCC believes that the old nature just gets cleansed and that there is no new divine nature as the Bible points to.

So born again Christians don’t become angry, prideful, gluttonous, lie (for any reason), cheat (even on things like taxes), covet or any other of the multitude of sins?

We have provided many scriptures that state faith plus works are necessary for salvation, including working to maintain the commandments and avoiding sin. What else could it possibly mean when scriptures state, …faith without works is dead?

Catholics try to work according to scriptures. We don’t work scriptures to fit our lives.

To try and give you an example using scriptures, see the quotes below.

I am saved.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ (by whose grace you are saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath delivered us and called us by his holy calling, not according to our own works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the world:

Tit 3:5 Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.

I am being saved.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

I will be saved.

Mat 10:22 And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel shall save it.

Act 15:11 But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, in like manner as they also.

Rom 5:9 Christ died for us. Much more therefore, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son: much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the season, that it is now the hour for us to rise from sleep. For now our salvation is nearer than when we believed.

1Co 3:15 If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 9:28 So also Christ was offered once to exhaust the sins of many. The second time he shall appear without sin to them that expect him unto salvation.

It’s a lifelong process and not a once done finished event.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[brkn1]

So born again Christians don’t become angry, prideful, gluttonous, lie (for any reason), cheat (even on things like taxes), covet or any other of the multitude of sins?

We have provided many scriptures that state faith plus works are necessary for salvation, including working to maintain the commandments and avoiding sin. What else could it possibly mean when scriptures state, …faith without works is dead?

Catholics try to work according to scriptures. We don’t work scriptures to fit our lives.

To try and give you an example using scriptures, see the quotes below.

I am saved.

I am being saved.

I will be saved.

It’s a lifelong process and not a once done finished event.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

So… There is no new divine nature that is imparted to a believer according to you.
I already said that the old nature still exists in a believer along with the new nature.