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reneeville
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"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." The Gospel of John 21:25
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jmcrae
Guest
This is true. The Tradition came before the Scriptures. St. Peter was ordained Pope more than 20 years before the very first word of the New Testament was penned. The Apostles knew that Mary was ever-virgin while she was still alive. St. Luke painted a picture of her that shows her as Mother of God. (This painting currently resides at the cathedral church of Czestochowa in Poland, and goes under the name, “The Black Madonna,” due to the 2,000 years accumulation of soot on it, because of the candles and incense being used in its presence.)
The Word of God is the person of Jesus Christ - not a book. We discover the person of Jesus Christ in Scripture, Tradition, doctrine, and through prayer.
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truthnlight
Guest
I go to Church Tuesday for soul wining. I go Wensday for church.
I go Sat. for visitations. I go Sunday 9:45 for bible study Then at 11:00 am We have church then I go home and come back at 5:00 pm for prayer service,then 6:00 We have service again. I work in a ministry. I do not curse, I do not drink, smoke, gamble,I am clean cut, sharp dresser,I dont watch reg TV just sports.I was baptized. I am as obedient as I can be, Do I still sin.
yep! Not as much as I did thats is for sure.
DOES ANY OF THIS SAVE ME ? I am a Independent Fundamental Baptist 2nd I am a Christain 1st.Tim.3:16
I belive the bible is the inspired word of God. God -breathed thats my standard I live by. I hold everone that teaches me to it.Since I do all this should I go to Heaven
Not If I dont belive.I would do it all in vain.
Matthew 7:21, “Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 7:22, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Matthew 7:23, “And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (Romans 10:9).
I go Sat. for visitations. I go Sunday 9:45 for bible study Then at 11:00 am We have church then I go home and come back at 5:00 pm for prayer service,then 6:00 We have service again. I work in a ministry. I do not curse, I do not drink, smoke, gamble,I am clean cut, sharp dresser,I dont watch reg TV just sports.I was baptized. I am as obedient as I can be, Do I still sin.
yep! Not as much as I did thats is for sure.
DOES ANY OF THIS SAVE ME ? I am a Independent Fundamental Baptist 2nd I am a Christain 1st.Tim.3:16
I belive the bible is the inspired word of God. God -breathed thats my standard I live by. I hold everone that teaches me to it.Since I do all this should I go to Heaven
Not If I dont belive.I would do it all in vain.
Matthew 7:21, “Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 7:22, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Matthew 7:23, “And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (Romans 10:9).
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
I have already reported truthnlight once for the copy and paste and not revealing sources and anti-Catholic rabidness and post highjacking. It would help if others would also report them too.
Ravyn
Ravyn
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
And where are Tuesday soul winning, Wednesday Bible study, Saturday visitations, Sunday School, and evening services mandated in the Bible? Chapter and verse, please.
Amen! the RCC also teaches that the Bible, all 73 OT books 27 NT books are the inspired, written Word of God. Are you able to infallibly interpret everything that it is your Bible? Who do you ask when you can’t understand something? Can they infallibly interpret everything in the Bible?
So I guess babies and young children cannot be saved, and if they die they go to Hell since they can’t believe and confess the Lord Jesus? What a shame.
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NewPerspective
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This is a very loaded, yet easily explained argument amongst Catholics and Evangelicals. The thing is, although some tradition and ritual the Catholic church practices is founded by traditions of the Bible, they are primarily Old Testament tradition and law. The New Testament is the new covenant God made with His people. Our lives mean more to God than the ritual and tradition that goes on in the privacy of the “Church”. As a matter of fact, God hates religion and repetition (mentioned several times in Scripture). Attending church and going through repetitive and tedious motions is not what God wants from us. He wants us to live in His will as result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the guidance thereof. It’s not the motions we go through on Sunday, but our reverence to the Will of a God who is bigger than ritual and tradition, who is bigger than a man that is referred to as Father(which is contradictory to scripture), who is bigger than laws and regulations. His love is sufficient and His Spirit is what should be leading us through life not repetition. I truly believe repetition and routine is the COMPLETE opposite of what God wants. We serve a Living God with a Living word that should be real enough to us to be spontaneous and be lead by the Holy Spirit of a God that is relevant, relational, and ALIVE. God wants a personal and intimate relationship with you that will bring you past the tradition of a non-scriptural doctrine and past repetitive, sincerity-lacking Hail Marys. Thats what I believe. God Bless anyone who reads this and please dont take this as an attack, its just my heart.
God Bless
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God Bless
-NP-
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lak611
Guest
How do you know that people are “going through repetitive and tedious motions” in church? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit could be leading them to pray and worship this way? Do you consider the Psalms repetitive and tedious?
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Allweather
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Truthnlight, we’re not very far apart. You’ve got the fervor, and all the essential ideas of holiness and a strong reverence for Almighty God. You’d make a very excellent Catholic. I was once a fundamentalist, and when I wrote and talked, I sounded very much like you do now. The thing is, fundamentalism is a type of disease, similar to drug addiction, except the addict is addicted to religion. There are worse addictions, FOR SURE, but any addiction is damaging in the long run. You keep searching, friend. We’ll be here when you calm down.
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jmcrae
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Excuse me - what are you responding to?
They are? How so?
The Church is a public institution; its rituals are public rituals.
Where does it say that God hates religion? God hates “vain babbling”, but He Himself commands and even does all sorts of other kinds of repetition. (Imagine if God came up with a new kind of baby every time He made a baby. Thank God He just keeps repeating the same “boring old formula” over and over again - otherwise we’d go extinct in no time flat.)
If it’s tedious, it might be because you don’t know what’s going on.
God is coming down from Heaven on to the Altar of the Church to be with us - and you don’t want to be there? You think it’s boring? You don’t want it to happen over and over again?
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Pixie_Dust
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Can you cite chapter and verse where God says “I hate religion and repetition”? What about James 1:27 - Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one’s self unspotted from this world. I don’t think visiting orphans and widows and keeping one’s self free from sin is a bad thing.
So was Jesus in error when He prayed the same prayer 3 times in a row?
What about Paul, praying three times for relief from his thorn in the flesh? Did God not answer that prayer because Paul was being to repetitive? Jesus said not to use VAIN repetition. VAIN means EMPTY.You really should start a separate thread if you really want to discuss each of these issues. If you want to learn the Truth about what Catholics believe, instead of what you’ve been erroneously told Catholics believe, please visit this website. It’s written for people just like you.
May God richly bless you!
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NewPerspective
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You guys are whole-heartedly misunderstanding what I am saying. I attend church and am involved in one. Im not saying that church routine is wrong, Im saying that the majority of what the catholic church does and teaches is DEAD WRONG and 120% unscriptural, contradictory actually. It would be one thing if it was just some goofy fabricate doctrine like Mormonism, but it is an actual contradiction to the Word of God. Im also not saying the Psalms are tedious or the Old Testament is irrelevant, Im just saying that the laws and rituals of the Old Testament is not what provides salvation. The New Testament is a covenant of Love and redemption despite the falling short of His glory. The premise that a Catholic is arguing scripture with me is somewhat comical considering your doctrine is not according to scripture. Please dont attack me if you dont understand your doctrine yourself. Thanks
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Allweather
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I’ve taken the liberty of bolding what I see as the significant words in this snip of your recent post, NewPerspective. I realize you probably don’t perceive this… yet… but one of the insidious features of much Protestant thought is the notion that what YOU think is important in the overall scheme of things. I’m going to state here, that what YOU think is of no importance whatever, except maybe to YOU. And if you’re being led in religion by what YOU think, then you’re on mighty thin ice, m’ friend.
BTW, repetition and routine are how humans work best. Have you ever learned a musical instrument? Memorized Scripture? Did you use repetition and routine? Was it evil?
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zcharry
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I’m not saying that the Catholic Church would bend to ELCA views, However, I do think it is a fine line to let a Church, LWF, make an agreement in doctrine that they do not actually have belief in or teach. Most people our not informed enough to know all the facts about a church, and this might lead some to go to a church that is not preaching what is the truth.
I think dialog is great.
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NewPerspective
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Allweather, first and foremost, my beliefs and morals are not based on religion or a doctrine that pushes the premise that good works and charity is my ticket to salvation, mine are founded on my personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ and a whole-hearted faith in the infallible Word of God whose mercies are new everyday.
Thanks though young man for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Valid attempt. God Bless
Thanks though young man for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Valid attempt. God Bless
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Randy_Carson
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Stephen Ray recently responded to a similar question this way:
1.) Where do I find an infallible list of infallible Catholic traditions? (and prove to me the infallibility of the list)
Before I answer your question, let me show you how flawed your question is by your own standards. You can’t even provide such an answer concerning what you accept as infallible — the Bible. Provide me a list of infallible books in the infallible Bible and prove to me the infallibility of the list. And since the Bible is your only infallible authority, where does the Bible says that the individual writings contained within are infallible and inspired?
Answer this and I will give you an answer for Tradition.
Since your theology is that the Bible is the only infallible source of revelation from God binding on the Christian, then where do you find a list of which books are exclusively infallible and to be included in the canon of Scripture? And let’s take it one step farther– who has the authority to define that list or make that determination?
Remember even R. C. Sproul (Evangelical Theologian) says that Catholics have an infallible list of infallible books; Protestants have a fallible list of infallible books; liberals have a fallible list of fallible books. The books are infallible and inspired, not the Table of Contents. And remember, if you say it is “obvious” then why did it take four hundred years for the early Christians to come up with a final list and who put the authority to put that list together and declare it infallible and binding? And why is there differences in the collection of books in the Bible even today?
And where do we find in the Bible alone, that your list is infallible and binding for all time? Martin Luther sure didn’t think so. And, by the way, where do you find in the Bible that everything that is the word of God is contained only in the book when even the book refutes such a claim?
Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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Allweather
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NewPerspective, I speak only for myself now, I am not misunderstanding you in the least. I used to be just like you. There are quite a few others here besides me who used to be the type of Protestant that you are, and they also undoubtedly can see things exactly as you do now. You and we separated by the thinnest of partitions. Someday, you may be able to poke a hole in that partition that was erected by your teachers, and see the Bible from a New(for you)Perspective. Since that is your chosen username at CA, and since you’re here, we can hope that you’re open to emerging from the partial blindness that afflicts your spiritual vision. Just turn off your Protestant teachers for a little while, and learn. If you can do that, you’ll have a chance to see the wisdom and beauty of the Catholic Church.
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NewPerspective
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Allweather, You have to understand that what I believe is not a result of indoctrination of a religion like catholicism that half of the people that follow dont have the slightest understanding of what they profess, but rather a result of my surrender to The God of Wonders and my asking Him into my life through His Son Jesus Christ. I understand where you are coming from to an extent, but i dont appreciate you looking at me like i’ll soon come to the false revelation that catholicism or religion in general will be what I live my life according to. Religion is not what its about man. Its about a relationship that ignites a passion in you to read The Word of Our Father and to live your life according to His will that you might reach others by leading your life in faith and the fruits of the Spirit. I am not protestant. Im a Born-Again, non-denominational, Spirit filled follower of the ONLY mediator between God and Men. Thanks
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Allweather
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LOL, gosh, at my age to be thought of as “young.” You’ve made my day!
Stop right there. Are you claiming that the Catholic Church “pushes the premise that good works and charity (are) my ticket to salvation”??? Where do you get that? Can you show me from the Catechism of the Catholic Church where this is taught?
As far as whole-hearted faith in the infallible Word of God, I join you in this. I read the Word of God, I worship Him, I eat His body and drink His blood at Mass, I “work” to conform myself to Him in every respect possible, to have the mind of Christ, to be part of the Body of Christ. How do you and I differ in this regard?
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NewPerspective
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How about your praying to Mary, and bizarre acknowledgment of her as more than just a vessel used by God and a follower of Christ. She is not a mediator between you and God. Thats BLATANT scripture. There is an instance in the Gospel of Luke chapter 11 verse 27 where a woman cried out "Blessed is the womb that bare thee…"and Jesus rebuked her and replied “Blessed is those who hear The Word and keep it”. Mary is in paradise with Jesus, yes, im not arguing the fact that she was a devout follower of Jesus, but she is not a mediator between us and God nor is she any more “Holy” than us as your doctrine teaches and as scripture does not. Yes she is special, but so are you and me. And when you guys do your Rosary thing, are like only 3 beads dedicated to our Heavenly Father and the rest of them Hail Marys? You can do what you want but I would rather hail Jesus Christ the Son of God who bore our sin and died for me at Calvary. Thanks
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Allweather
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We’re not that far apart! By what you write you reveal certain misconceptions about Catholicism. Your statement: “a religion like Catholicism that half the people that follow don’t have the slightest understanding of what they profess” is indicative, and worth examination. How do you know that “half” of Catholics don’t know what they profess? I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I’m wanting to know how you know such a thing.
And, if someone professes something, isn’t it likely that they know what they’re professing?
How do you know that we Catholics don’t surrender to “The God of Wonders” by asking Him into our lives “through His Son, Jesus Christ”?
Are you certain that more than half the people who follow YOUR religion have the slightest understanding of what they’re professing? If so, how do you know?
Now, the larger question: Why are you concerned with what others are thinking? Isn’t it enough trouble for you to worry about what NewPerspective is thinking?
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