Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

[AFskater]

Hello,

I’m a fallen away catholic. My main reasons why I dislike the church, and all organized religion is that they close the mind to other ideas. I fell away from the church after discovering conflicts between my beliefs and the dogma of catholicism.

 

[DD2007]

Hello,

I’m a fallen away catholic. My main reasons why I dislike the church, and all organized religion is that they close the mind to other ideas. I fell away from the church after discovering conflicts between my beliefs and the dogma of catholicism.

John 3:16-21 ESV
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

 

[estesbob]

Read the Scripture and beg God for understanding; that would be a great start. You can always tell when a person cannot refute something when they provide zero substance to their post on serious issues that strike at the heart of your theology. This is a pretty typical response from a Catholic.
**Read the Scripture and beg God for understanding; that would be a great start. You can always tell when a person cannot refute something when they provide zero substance to their post on serious issues that strike at the heart of your theology. **

I have read the Scripture-I disagree with the way you interpret that. how do we resolve that?

**

There is but one truth when God speaks through Scripture; some truths can have more than one application and often does. I wouldn’t take any ones interpretation of Scripture; I would and am like the Bereans to see if these things are true; another good suggestion for you.

**

If there is only one truth why are their thousands of different Protestant denominations offering differernet , often contradictory version of the truth?

**

If you need to ask such a question; further evidence you do not understand what provisions God has given to each “true disciple”. Moreover it also shows that you do not believe God because you are not even willing to see for yourself what He has to say; how can you, you lean on someone else’s understanding. Isn’t that why you and others put more emphasis on the “Church” than on Scripture?

**

Why should I trust you interpretation of Scripture?

Irenaeus and Tertullian held to sola Scriptura

No they didnt:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, **that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” Iraneus **(Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

T]the Church has the power of forgiving sins. This I acknowledge and adjudge" (ibid., 21).

“The Great Pontiff—that is, the bishop of bishops *—issues an edict: ‘I remit, to such as have discharged penance, the sins both of adultery and of fornication” (Modesty 1 [A.D. 220]).

TERTULLIAN

**

Cyril of Jerusalem held to sola Scriptura

**

No he didnt:

If ever thou art staying in any city, ask not simply where the Lord’s house is - for the sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord - not merely where the church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the special name of the holy body the mother of us all." Writing of the Creed he tells us, “Now it [the Church] is called Catholic because it is throughout the world, from one end of the earth to the other.”

**

Gregory of Nyssa held to sola Scriptura

**

No he didnt :

This same power of the word also makes the priest venerable and honorable, separated from the generality of men by the new blessing bestowed upon him. Yesterday he was but one of the multitude, one of the people; suddenly he is made a guide, a president, a teacher of piety, an instructor in hidden mysteries" (Sermon on the Day of Lights [A.D. 383]).

The Early Church operated on basis of sola Scriptura

You have offered no proof of this

 

[Dee123]

This life that I have found in Christ meets the needs of my soul. Catholism does not “speak to my condition”…“There is One, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition” is the testimony George Fox relayed…and those of us who put that to the test have found it to be so…we know God “experimentally”…“experientially”.

That any “sacrament” could confer grace upon me through the hands of another is a foreign concept to me…life is holy sacrament already.

Read some church Fathers, especially Polycarp who learned at the feet of John the Apostle…read what he has to say about the Eucharist-eating the flesh and blood of Christ—about the bishop of Rome—about confessions…
Read St. Augustine and see what he has to say about these things…
Read St. Iraneus and St. Jerome.
Read Cyril of Jerusalem and see what they say…maybe the truth will set you free…

 

[Dee123]

Hello,

I’m a fallen away catholic. My main reasons why I dislike the church, and all organized religion is that they close the mind to other ideas. I fell away from the church after discovering conflicts between my beliefs and the dogma of catholicism.

So what you’re saying, is that your interpretation of scripture, your interpretation of what’s right and wrong is the position to be held; it’s the position that is correct; only your position is correct…of course a 2000 yr old tradition that started with Jesus Christ MUST be incorrect!

 

[Publisher]

Read some church Fathers, especially Polycarp who learned at the feet of John the Apostle…read what he has to say about the Eucharist-eating the flesh and blood of Christ—about the bishop of Rome—about confessions…
Read St. Augustine and see what he has to say about these things…
Read St. Iraneus and St. Jerome.
Read Cyril of Jerusalem and see what they say…maybe the truth will set you free…

I have read some of “Polycarp”, it is very interesting…but as a Friend I’d say…“Thee tells me what Polycarp says…thee tells me what Augustine says…what can thee say?”

My faith is not dependant on the experience of another. I may find their experience faith affirming, but for me I’d rather trust my own counsel and experience with the Eternal, than claim someone else’s experience as my own.

The Truth has set me free.

 

[distracted]

My question to a Baptist Christian would be–Is it true that what my Baptist friend replied to me, ”She couldn’t have been saved in the first place”, is Baptist doctrine.? Catholics, if that is so, isn’t Baptist teaching in error?:shrug:Carlan

hope i am not repeating… (?)

been saved???

that is so protestnat… one is not saved as a one-time event… it is a process… “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”… (Phil 2:12)… and etc…

she was never very intimate with christ or she wouldn’t be living in sin…

she probably belives as many do… that if you love someone, it is OK to live with him/her …

the consequences will bite her in the ***… (as well as the one who is living w/ her of course)

it’s kinda easy to see how wrong somehting is… when it not only fails to work out but causes massive misery & heartache in the end… not to mention causing distance from Christ, the worst thing of all…

 

[Dee123]

Deny youself and follow Jesus, not man, not the Pope. Peter was not that rock when Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my church” Jesus is plainly the Rock.

God’s true church is not the Catholic Church exclusively…His church consists of all those who are called by His name and their names are written the Lambs book of life and follow Him. The will come from all faiths and walks of life.

When our Lord Jesus comes back to this earth (very soon) He will not ask us were you a Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, or any denomination. It will depend on your heart’s condition and have you been born again.

Some of the Catholic writings say you can’t be saved or have eternal life apart from the Catholic Church…not so.

Actually, Jesus spoke Aramaic…and he said something like Kepha, upon this Kepha I will build my church…(not an exact quote, obviously)…By the way, who told you that Peter is not the rock upon which Christ was to build His Church? Just wondering who’s word you believed…

Born again = baptism…We as Catholics believe that we are born again by water and the Holy Spirit upon baptism…I guess that’s why we’ve always believed infants must be baptized; so they can live in glory with the Father in case they die as a child/baby; before they have the chance to decide for themselves whether or not they’ll accept or deny Christ. Of course, if a baptized infant later on in life turns away from God and lives a life of sin and has no desire for prayer, etc. then the baptism in infancy does not guarantee his/her salvation!

Re: not being saved apart from the Catholic Church…this is a very deep and complex concept. You must actually really try to understand it by reading alot about it to understand what this means…For starters, we believe that Christ’s body (being physical) is the church. There cannot be an invisible church, for his body was not invisible. So, there must be a physical church He left with us. For He started the Church. He instituted it. Now, scripture does not say he established churchES. It says he established a church.
Which one, then, is His church on earth?

 

[Tanner9188]

JL: [Hb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and have TASTED of THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, 5 And have TASTED the good WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, 6 IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN unto repentance; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY to themselves THE SON of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.]

Paul is addressing a Christian community of those who have been ENLIGHTENED. They are not on the brink of being enlightened they are ENLIGHTENED and HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, They have the indwelling Holy Ghost.

Paul warns believers, with the indwelling Holy Spirit , of the danger of apostasy, alluding to those once Christian Hebrews, who left the Christian community and returned to Judaism. Having rejected Christ’s sacrifice, returning and placing their faith in animal sacrifice, which can never renew them again to repentance taking away sin. It is impossible for them to repent and be renewed, apart from Christ and the Christian Community. As long as they remain hostile to the Gospel, it is impossible to renew them unto repentance. They are separated from Christ and his people, by choice and crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh.

Why warn believing Christians against falling away if it can’t happen? How can non-believers, fall away from something they don’t have? Could non-believers be RESTORED to something they haven’t first possessed? The point is when a believer falls away from Christ, they will not find salvation in anyone other than Christ, it is impossible, as there is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved.

2Pt2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through [the full, personal] knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they again become entangled in them and are overcome, their last condition is worse [for them] than the first. 21 For never to have obtained a [full, personal] knowledge of the way of righteousness would have been better for them than, having obtained [such knowledge], to turn back from the holy commandment which was [verbally] delivered to them. 22 There has befallen them the thing spoken of in the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and, The sow is washed only to wallow again in the mire. [Amplified Bible]

Sources: RSV, Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, Commentary and Notes by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch. Douay-Rheims Bible, footnotes, Loreto Publications. NAB, The Catholic Answer Bible footnotes, Our Sunday Visitor Publishing Division. And a Protestant source, David Guzik’s Commentaries on the Bible, on line @ studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=heb&chapter=006

Mk 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. The sin against the Holy Spirit is resisting his prompting to repent, it is the only sin than cannot be forgiven in this or the next age.

You posted in another line this link, forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5525045&postcount=836
your fourth paragraph down, “I have often wondered … there is no correlation to the two unless you were one of those who walked away in unbelief, became an apostate and started your own cannibal christian church”. I my reply to that in post 925 I said I thought you believed in OSAS, yet here you admit believers can fall away, I will remember to remind you of your admission when you say OSAS.

No one can snatch one from God, but we can remove ourself by sin, as you even show by your above statement. One can’t be an apostate without first being a Christian.

**OR; the commentary is incorrect; you’ll notice two things 1) "versus quoted need to be in correct context:
Hebrews 6:1-8 "1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and {then} have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. "

The word “impossible” is used in the same context as Hebrews 6:18 “so that by two unchangeable things in which it is* impossible* for God to lie,” Do you agree?

Second, you stated “Why warn believing Christians against falling away if it can’t happen?” that is a good question. Why would you warn Christians against falling away? Only three possibilities as to who he is addressing…do you agree? A) he is speaking to non-believers or 2) He is talking to believers C) speaking corporately to both believers & non-believers

Lets move away for a minute; to the parable of the sower. Are the first three; those that have the indwelling, then “fall away”? Do you see there is a correlation to Hebrews?

Here is Jesus explanation: "Hear then the parable of the sower. "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil {one} comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no {firm} root in himself, but is {only} temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit

Before you answer you must ask the question; who can understand the Word; the person with the Holy Spirit - do you agree?

After you have had time to think about these and respond; we can move further onto the point I will make, but we must first establish some basic understandings.**

 

[estesbob]

The Truth has set me free.

Especially when everyone gets to come up with their own version of the truth…

 

[Dee123]

I have read some of “Polycarp”, it is very interesting…but as a Friend I’d say…“Thee tells me what Polycarp says…thee tells me what Augustine says…what can thee say?”

My faith is not dependant on the experience of another. I may find their experience faith affirming, but for me I’d rather trust my own counsel and experience with the Eternal, than claim someone else’s experience as my own.

The Truth has set me free.

Are you so proud as to actually state that yeah, what Polycarp taught and believed is all well and good for him, but not for me…Do you realize that he learned EVERYTHING from John the Apostle who learned from Jesus, himself? How can you not believe that everything Polycarp says is the truth?

Pray for humility…we all need it…Do not harden your heart. Ask for faith, please.

Scripture can be compared, so to speak with the Constitution of any country…It has been written. Who interprets it? Anybody and everybody for themselves? No, you have governing bodies in every country and legal systems which carry out the law…

Of course, Scripture can’t be equated with any body’s Constitution for it is Sacred and Holy and inspired by the Holy Spirit…it is the Word of God which we all must adhere to.

 

[Tanner9188]

Actually, Jesus spoke Aramaic…and he said something like Kepha, upon this Kepha I will build my church…(not an exact quote, obviously)…By the way, who told you that Peter is not the rock upon which Christ was to build His Church? Just wondering who’s word you believed…

Born again = baptism…We as Catholics believe that we are born again by water and the Holy Spirit upon baptism…I guess that’s why we’ve always believed infants must be baptized; so they can live in glory with the Father in case they die as a child/baby; before they have the chance to decide for themselves whether or not they’ll accept or deny Christ. Of course, if a baptized infant later on in life turns away from God and lives a life of sin and has no desire for prayer, etc. then the baptism in infancy does not guarantee his/her salvation!

Re: not being saved apart from the Catholic Church…this is a very deep and complex concept. You must actually really try to understand it by reading alot about it to understand what this means…For starters, we believe that Christ’s body (being physical) is the church. There cannot be an invisible church, for his body was not invisible. So, there must be a physical church He left with us. For He started the Church. He instituted it. Now, scripture does not say he established churchES. It says he established a church.
Which one, then, is His church on earth?

One more thing; I said “there is no correlation to the two unless you were one of those who walked away in unbelief; became an apostate and started your own cannibal christian church” ; does someone who does not belief or walks away in unbelief, describe a Christian? No Christian walks away from God for two reasons 1) they can’t and 2) they wouldn’t want to

 

[Dee123]

So you can question the authenticity of Protestantism but if we questioned the auhenticity of Catholicism we would be banned. How couragous of you.
Do you have any idea how far Catholicism has deviated from first century Christianity?

So, how do you explain that there is only one Catholic church and over 33,0000 protestant denominations?

Which protestant denomination does one choose? How do you decide that?

 

[Dee123]

(shucks, nobody responded to my post!)

Hi.
I like Catholics, I love the music, the buildings, the history/tradition, etc.

However, the reason I’m not Catholic is that a ‘a tree is judged by its fruit’.
In my research of every form of Christianity, I find that Quakerism is the closest there is to being non-hypocritical or contradictory. They were the first abolitionists, always against war/pacifist, always kind to the native Americans and did not betray them like others, never had an inquisition, etc.

To me, that means a lot. Catholic history is marred by some real atrocities, including WWII, treatment of Jews, the inquisition, etc. Protestantism in general has some real discriminatory practices as well, especially Martin Luther was a real anti-semite. But so far I’ve found nothing disagreeable even in the earliest history of Quakerism.

Wayne

Isn’t it amazing that even though some individuals in the Catholic Church committed some atrocities and that even though we’ve had some bad popes and leaders, that the church is still thriving and alive 2000 years later?
Think: If the Catholic Church was a man-made institution, wouldn’t it have fallen hundreds or even a thousand years ago?

When did Quakerism start? How many years of history does it have?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Really?

Baptists beleive in salavtion by Faith alone and OSAS, SDAs beleive you have to fully immersed when baptized and have to worship on Satuday, Calvinists believe in pre-destination,Mormons believe you have to be baptized in their church and beleive joseph Smith was a prophet, Lutherans believe obedience to God & faith are necessary for salvation, Methodists believe that the truth is found in tradition and the Scriptures . One thing they do have in common is no resemblance whatsoever to what was beleived for the first 1500 years of Christianity

And the founfer of the church will all say he?she was lead by the Holy Spirit

 

[NotTooSmart]

Protestants, what ever your denomination is, please tell me why you will not be Catholic!?

xxx jennifer xxx

Oh I suppose the answer would be (1) the group of people that shared Jesus Christ with me were not Catholic (2) I am happy where I am at (3) God has not led me to change churches, particularly to one that seems quite different to what I was converted to Christ to.

BTW, I don’t really consider myself “Protestant”, but I can understand from your point of view why you might call me “Protestant” so I’ll go with it.

 

[Carlan]

Deny youself and follow Jesus, not man, not the Pope. Peter was not that rock when Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my church” Jesus is plainly the Rock.

God’s true church is not the Catholic Church exclusively…His church consists of all those who are called by His name and their names are written the Lambs book of life and follow Him. The will come from all faiths and walks of life.

When our Lord Jesus comes back to this earth (very soon) He will not ask us were you a Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, or any denomination. It will depend on your heart’s condition and have you been born again.

Some of the Catholic writings say you can’t be saved or have eternal life apart from the Catholic Church…not so.

(Quote from Ben)

Some of the Catholic writings say you can’t be saved or have eternal life apart from the Catholic Church…not so.

No don’t think so Ben. Since Christ died for all’ and since all man are infact called to one and the same destiny,which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church , but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his unerstanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
Carlan

 

[Dee123]

Hello,
I am new here. Please answer my question the best you can.

I have heard that if you are not a Catholic then you are not a Christian. Is this the teaching of rhe Catholic Church?

Thank you so much for your answer.

Benn

Don’t know where you heard that but you will find it in NONE of Catholic writings by Popes, nor will you find it in the Catechism…

It’s incorrect.

 

[estesbob]

Hello,
I am new here. Please answer my question the best you can.

I have heard that if you are not a Catholic then you are not a Christian. Is this the teaching of rhe Catholic Church?

Thank you so much for your answer.

Benn

The answer is no. Catholics do not beleive you have to be a catholic to be a Christian nor has the Church ever taught that one need to physically be a member of the Catholkc Church to be saved.

 

[DD2007]

The answer is no. Catholics do not beleive you have to be a catholic to be a Christian nor has the Church ever taught that one need to physically be a member of the Catholkc Church to be saved.

You guys will say anything these days to try to get people to take you seriously.

The Roman Church has stated over and over again.Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus…see the quote below:

"The Catholic Church has solemnly defined three times by infallible declarations that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. The most explicit and forceful of the three came from Pope Eugene IV, in the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, who proclaimed ex cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

From this Link: olrl.org/doctrine/eens2.shtml

That is actually one of your tracts that you give people to scare them into converting. :tsktsk: