Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

[Benn]

These are all areas that Catholics share in common with non-Catholic Christians, so why would that be an issue?

No, this is not the teaching of the Church. The Church recognizes that there are many Christians who have not ever been exposed to the fullness of the Apostolic Teaching retained in the Catholic Church. They go on the portion of revelation which they have received, primarily in the Holy Scriptures, and are very devoted in their faith, even though it their access to God’s revelation is incomplete.

Protestants are like Apollos to a large extent, very fervent, but uninformed.

Thank you guanophore,
It’s an issue because of the division in the body.

You say it’s not the teaching of the church but I think that the Catholic Church has catorigized protestants as walking behind light and of course I disagree.

First we are in Christ, then we are Catholic or Protestant…Thank you anyway.

I am not anti-Catholic I just had this question.

Helps me understand a litttle.

God Bless

Ben
“Perhaps Today”

 

[Carlan]

This is my answer to your question… As this is my personal view there is no room for discussion. I have the following reasons… Whether others have the same or view them as heretical is not a problem of mine.
Out of respect for the beginner of this thread I will not elaborate my views any further as this would lead off topic.

1. 
   *]I do not accept the authority of the pope.
   *]I will not agree to pray to saints.
   *]I will surely not agree to pray to Mary.
   *]I do not believe that “sacraments” play an essential role in salvation.
   *]I do not believe that there are Biblical grounds for a special priesthood and I disagree that leaders of local churches should have to be unmarried.
   *]I will not agree with infant baptism.
   *]I do not agree with transubstantiation.
   *]I do not believe in the Immaculate Conception.
   *]I do believe in the virgin birth, but I do not believe Mary stayed a virgin after giving birth to Jesus Christ.
   *]I do not believe that Mary is our spiritual mother.
   *]I do not believe in assumption of Mary’s body into heaven.
   *]I do not believe that indulgences have any effect.
   *]I do not believe that purgatory exists and therefore I do not believe that a mass can actually shorten the time there.
   *]I do not believe in the infallibility of the pope or the magisterium.
   *]I do believe in a separation of church and state.
   *]I do not accept the Syllabus. (In the Catholic Encyclopaedia Article it says in the section “Binding power” that “all Catholics, therefore, are bound to accept the Syllabus. Exteriorly they may neither in word nor in writing oppose its contents; they must also assent to it interiorly.”
   
   Those are my reasons and I am sure to stay Protestant…

1. 
   Ok Janet, but I believe your reasons say to me, disobedience,disobedience,disobedience. To the last sentence my comment is ‘FAMOUS LAST WORDS’! Most fallen away Catholics return to the faith on their death bed if not much sooner, which is my prayer for you.Carlan

 

[j2c99]

All the issues raised in this thread are talked about in this short 40 page , big-font booklet. Please get it for 5 dollars, its very good and can be a life-changer for some people out there.

amazon.com/Beginning-Apologetics-Explain-Defend-Catholic/dp/1930084005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248108854&sr=8-1

 

[j2c99]

I did not say (nor do I think) that Catholics are unsaved - Only God knows for sure.

Where did you get the idea that this is what I think? Is it because I said that my son is a born again Christian? He found his church community on his own in his late teens (with the help of the Holy Spirit, I’m sure!) and decided that he wanted to be baptised as an adult and be born-again.

Regarding Catholics being saved or not, you may be interested in this link which gives a biblical perspective on the question.

gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

Quite a vitriolic and vehemently anti-Catholic site. Please don’t post things like that.

You never see Catholic websites attacking other faiths , do you? You ever wonder why? Maybe its because we don’t need to actively defend our faith in words; our Church (the True Church) speaks volumes on its own with the actions of its members and intellectual defenses on morality and salvation (ala Saint Thomas Aquinas… he’s a SAINT, not just Thomas Aquinas).

I will continue to pray for our separated brothers in Christ and for all the sects and branches of Christianity to unified back to the One, True, Holy, Apostolic Church.

 

[j2c99]

To bring up a common issue many non-Catholic Christians attack the Church with… the people who are actual followers of the Catholic Church do so with the belief in mind that Jesus Christ founded the Church and thus its teachings. We don’t just blindly follow humans around who create arbitrary doctrines and laws and rules, etc… we believe in Jesus Christ’s Church and by thus doing so in prayerful and active manner, we foster and grow our relationship with Christ. We don’t develop a cold, black and white legal understanding of Christ, like many non-Catholic Christians would eagerly say. It may sound like a circular argument, based from this post, but this is entirely substantiated in apologetic treatises that are available for free all over the internet.

Another common one is “Go read your Bible, you Catholic… instead of listening to other people.” I do that already, thanks. I read it all the time when I’m at home in prayer, when I want to learn specific doctrines and meanings behind them… and ALSO at the Mass! The entire Mass is the Bible. Old Testament, New Testament, and the Gospel. Great book to check out… Scott Hahn’s “Lamb’s Supper”.

What is Truth? Ask yourself this, but take yourself out of Pontius Pilate’s relativist mindset, and have a honest yearning to seek truth , and I am assured that it will lead to the Catholic Church.

 

[estesbob]

This is my answer to your question… As this is my personal view there is no room for discussion. I have the following reasons… Whether others have the same or view them as heretical is not a problem of mine.
Out of respect for the beginner of this thread I will not elaborate my views any further as this would lead off topic.

1. 
   *]I do not accept the authority of the pope.
   *]I will not agree to pray to saints.
   *]I will surely not agree to pray to Mary.
   *]I do not believe that “sacraments” play an essential role in salvation.
   *]I do not believe that there are Biblical grounds for a special priesthood and I disagree that leaders of local churches should have to be unmarried.
   *]I will not agree with infant baptism.
   *]I do not agree with transubstantiation.
   *]I do not believe in the Immaculate Conception.
   *]I do believe in the virgin birth, but I do not believe Mary stayed a virgin after giving birth to Jesus Christ.
   *]I do not believe that Mary is our spiritual mother.
   *]I do not believe in assumption of Mary’s body into heaven.
   *]I do not believe that indulgences have any effect.
   *]I do not believe that purgatory exists and therefore I do not believe that a mass can actually shorten the time there.
   *]I do not believe in the infallibility of the pope or the magisterium.
   *]I do believe in a separation of church and state.
   *]I do not accept the Syllabus. (In the Catholic Encyclopaedia Article it says in the section “Binding power” that “all Catholics, therefore, are bound to accept the Syllabus. Exteriorly they may neither in word nor in writing oppose its contents; they must also assent to it interiorly.”
   
   Those are my reasons and I am sure to stay Protestant…

1. 
   Since all of the above was beleieved by nearly all Chrisitans for the first 1,500 years of Chrisitianity what special insight so you and others who disagree have that eleuded all who went before you?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Ok Janet, but I believe your reasons say to me, disobedience,disobedience,disobedience. To the last sentence my comment is ‘FAMOUS LAST WORDS’! Most fallen away Catholics return to the faith on their death bed if not much sooner, which is my prayer for you.Carlan

Let me jump here, I have one question #11 please tell me why you do not believe do you not have any faith,why do you limit Our Lord You are saying after the death of Mary Our Lord did not take Mary right to heaven He put here in a grave and put dirt on her,does that sound like your Lord, and BTW where is mary put in the ground the world has to know. He has to be a pleace people will run too dont you think it was a shrine for at lest CATHLOIC

 

[Bill_Pick]

Let me jump here, I have one question #11 please tell me why you do not believe do you not have any faith,why do you limit Our Lord You are saying after the death of Mary Our Lord did not take Mary right to heaven He put here in a grave and put dirt on her,does that sound like your Lord, and BTW where is mary put in the ground the world has to know. He has to be a pleace people will run too dont you think it was a shrine for at lest CATHLOIC

Thia is my post Bill Pick and it is WRONG and is not a Cathloic teaching and I,m Cathloic,I was think it was about Mary Assumption please please do not “crucifed” me my wife does that ,okay

 

[1edyson]

imjustme:

I did not say (nor do I think) that Catholics are unsaved - Only God knows for sure.

Where did you get the idea that this is what I think? Is it because I said that my son is a born again Christian? He found his church community on his own in his late teens (with the help of the Holy Spirit, I’m sure!) and decided that he wanted to be baptised as an adult and be born-again.

Regarding Catholics being saved or not, you may be interested in this link which gives a biblical perspective on the question.

gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

Since we’re throwing around links, here is one listen to a few of the talks, they’re ripe with scripture and let us know what you think.

Bible Christian Society. And to keep it on topic, see if some of the reasons why you choose to not be a Catholic still stand firm, which I’m sure they will, but at least if the talks shed any new light on what Catholics really believe.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you guanophore,
It’s an issue because of the division in the body.

My response about “not an issue” had to do with someone bringing up reasons not to be Catholic that don’t apply.

You say it's not the teaching of the church but I think that the Catholic Church has catorigized protestants as walking behind light and of course I disagree.

Historically, this is very true. However, the passages posted above on the catechism represent the official teaching of the Church. I think we can agree that there are at least as many Catholics “walking behind the light” as there are Protestants! Research has shown that most Catholics do not practice what they profess to believe, and that most of them have very little understanding of the faith they claim to espouse.

First we are in Christ, then we are Catholic or Protestant…Thank you anyway.

I am not anti-Catholic I just had this question.

Helps me understand a litttle.

God Bless

Ben
“Perhaps Today”

I did not consider the question, or the way you put it, “anti”. You make a good point that Catholics profess to have the “fullness of Truth” in the Church, and that all the other denominations have departed from that to a greater, or lesser extent. This can be seen as a rather arrogant perspective.

 

[estesbob]

You make a good point that Catholics profess to have the “fullness of Truth” in the Church, and that all the other denominations have departed from that to a greater, or lesser extent. This can be seen as a rather arrogant perspective.

Or it can be seen as what it is -the TRUTH. The fact that is stings those who have chosen to remain outside the fullness of truth changes nothing.

 

[guanophore]

Ok Janet, but I believe your reasons say to me, disobedience,disobedience,disobedience. To the last sentence my comment is ‘FAMOUS LAST WORDS’! Most fallen away Catholics return to the faith on their death bed if not much sooner, which is my prayer for you.Carlan

I was surprised to read this. When I read that list of reasons it seemed to me to be a pretty inclusive list of Fundamentalist objections to Apostolic Teaching. I guess I can see how it could be related to disobedience, but more, it seemed to me to be the statement of someone who has been well versed in anti-Catholicism.

 

[Carlan]

I was surprised to read this. When I read that list of reasons it seemed to me to be a pretty inclusive list of Fundamentalist objections to Apostolic Teaching. I guess I can see how it could be related to disobedience, but more, it seemed to me to be the statement of someone who has been well versed in anti-Catholicism.

Thank you ,guanophore, yes and that is what the list is, however, I first noted that she is a fallen away Catholic, and the basic reason for that is usually disobedience, and when it happens to a Catholic they can become very bitter and end up in a so called easy denomination.Carlan

 

[happilycatholic]

I was surprised to read this. When I read that list of reasons it seemed to me to be a pretty inclusive list of Fundamentalist objections to Apostolic Teaching. I guess I can see how it could be related to disobedience, but more, it seemed to me to be the statement of someone who has been well versed in anti-Catholicism.

Or an “ex-catholic” as it where.

 

[happilycatholic]

Thank you ,guanophore, yes and that is what the list is, however, I first noted that she is a fallen away Catholic, and the basic reason for that is usually disobedience, and when it happens to a Catholic they can become very bitter and end up in a so called easy denomination.Carlan

Oh, see. I think you can sort of spot those who are angry “ex-catholics”.

 

[guanophore]

I did not say (nor do I think) that Catholics are unsaved - Only God knows for sure.

Where did you get the idea that this is what I think? Is it because I said that my son is a born again Christian? He found his church community on his own in his late teens (with the help of the Holy Spirit, I’m sure!) and decided that he wanted to be baptised as an adult and be born-again.

I will tell you where I got that idea:

but how could the nuns and priests have read scripture and not realize that they were not the same as Catholic doctrine?

Because Catholics read the scripture in the light of Apostolic Teaching, so we perceive it’s meaning differently. Those who are separated from this Sacred Tradition are missing part of God’s revelation to the Church, so they understand the scripture differently.

My greatest regret is that I raised my children Catholic and I feel that I have somewhat failed as a parent for not researching sooner so that I could have set them on the right path from an early age.

This statement says to me that you have regret over your failure as a parent because you raised your children in “error”. You consider Catholicism to be the “wrong” path. this seems to indicate that you don’t believe they can be saved if they are Catholic.

As God would have it, my son is now a born-again Christian and very involved in a Baptist Church (wants to be a youth pastor - praise the Lord!)…I am still praying for my daughter to find the true path…I know it will happen when God wants.

Your words indicate that you do not believe “catholic” to be any part of the “true path”.

I wonder if you’ve ever read through the whole Bible and wondered about the inconsistencies.

When I joined a fundamentalist group after leaving my Catholic home I learned to read the bible for myself. I did wonder about what appeared to me to be “inconsistencies”. It took me a long time to work this out. However, I now realize that there are no “inconsistencies” between Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The entire NT is produced out of Sacred Tradition, and there can be no contradiction between them, as they come from the same Source.

Regarding Catholics being saved or not, you may be interested in this link which gives a biblical perspective on the question.

gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

Most of us have thoroughly researched this anti-Catholic site. We get this material around here a lot.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you ,guanophore, yes and that is what the list is, however, I first noted that she is a fallen away Catholic, and the basic reason for that is usually disobedience, and when it happens to a Catholic they can become very bitter and end up in a so called easy denomination.Carlan

I guess I just did not take it that way. To me, it seemed like she was just starving for the Word, and when she finally got into it, followed it hard. This was my experience as well. I wanted a deeper more authentic relationship with God, and found it when reading and trying to live the Holy Scripture. I learned how to do this from my separated brethren.

Actually, my life as a fundamentalist was much more pure and obedient than it ever was as a Catholic. I am not sure that it is fair to assume that such a departure is based in disobedience. For me, it was problems at home (so-called Catholics not living their faith), poor catechesis, and poor spiritual formation.

I do agree though, about the bitterness I was angry for a long time. I never did become a real “catholic basher” but I had no love lost on Catholicism for a long time.

 

[Carlan]

I guess I just did not take it that way. To me, it seemed like she was just starving for the Word, and when she finally got into it, followed it hard. This was my experience as well. I wanted a deeper more authentic relationship with God, and found it when reading and trying to live the Holy Scripture. I learned how to do this from my separated brethren.

Actually, my life as a fundamentalist was much more pure and obedient than it ever was as a Catholic. I am not sure that it is fair to assume that such a departure is based in disobedience. For me, it was problems at home (so-called Catholics not living their faith), poor catechesis, and poor spiritual formation.

I do agree though, about the bitterness I was angry for a long time. I never did become a real “catholic basher” but I had no love lost on Catholicism for a long time.

I am sorry for using such a broad brush, I do realize there are many,many reasons which can contribute to one leaving and searching in other directions.God bless you guanophore and I thank Him for your return home and for your witness.Carlan:thumbsup:

 

[Benn]

I love all people. I am not putting dow Catholics. So of my best friends (employees) are Catholic.

I could never bow to a statue, image of anykind, nor the Pope. I respect him but I could not confess my sins to him and expect them to be forgiven.

I will confess only to God. I will bow only to Him…Every kne shall bow someday.
When Jesus said, “it is finisihed” the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom allowing us access to Him directly.

No middle man except Jesus the mediator, not some some created being. I dont believe non-Cathoics will burn in hell.

Just my beliefs.

 

[estesbob]

I love all people. I am not putting dow Catholics. So of my best friends (employees) are Catholic.

I could never bow to a statue, image of anykind, nor the Pope. I respect him but I could not confess my sins to him and expect them to be forgiven.

I will confess only to God. I will bow only to Him…Every kne shall bow someday.
When Jesus said, “it is finisihed” the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom allowing us access to Him directly.

No middle man except Jesus the mediator, not some some created being. I dont believe non-Cathoics will burn in hell.

Just my beliefs.

And how did you come by your beleifs?