Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

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I was just asking a question that was not at all directed at you. I never had any contact to someone who was a Quaker and even the term was just something I did see somewhere in a book. Asking is free of charge.
Thanks.

By the way, I may get an answer or I may not and that still doesn’t have to be a problem of yours.
Oh, so when YOU want an explanation, you get to ask for one, but when someone else wants an explanation FROM you, you get the priviledge of not giving one, am I correct in that? It seems so.

It may not have been directed at me, but it was posted to a public forum. If you wanted an answer simply from the individual with out the “butting in” of someone else, might I suggest a private message? It works, AND it’s free of charge too! 👍

BTW, it’s not a problem of mine. I was making an observation and pointing it out. Is that a problem of yours?
 
Oh, so when YOU want an explanation, you get to ask for one, but when someone else wants an explanation FROM you, you get the priviledge of not giving one, am I correct in that? It seems so.
Our friend has as much of a possibility to not answer my question as I have concerning yours. I just asked and that’s it.
 
The truth can sometimes be painful and we are standing up for it with Biblical proof and knowledge of Catholic teaching.
Here is my point: I’d rather have everybody hate me because I tell a truth they do not like than having everybody love me because I am oh so tolerant and not doing anything about people literally going to hell. It is heartbreaking and I will debate and preach as long as my breath lasts, because the Catholic church does not. Hell has long since been vanished from the pulpits and true salvation is not preached anymore…
Who silenced the warnings about hell and introduced a universal salvation and universalism?
On HELL from the Catechism, still taught
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self- exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”
1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”
Code:
Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:
Unfortunately, like a personal interpretation of the Bible, a personal willful rejection of the truth is in ones interpretation of reality. This is the result of sin and we need the Church, the “Rule of Faith” to remind us of our duty of submitting to Christ. It has done so through the sinful vessels that make up the Church, and humanity as well. Universalism is refuted in “No Salvation Outside the Church”
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Code:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
If this isn’t what one want’s salvation to be, one must check their heart for desire not to submit to the teachings of Christ through the Church.
 
C’on Janice, as a fallen away Catholic I can not believe you wrote all that and actually believe it Catholics only worship the TRinity Father Son and Holy Spirit. Sounds like you have been brained washed good and proper. Heresy., The mother of our Lord Jesus Christ? Your mind is closed to the whole truth Carlan
Hi Carlan;

To the outsider looking in at the Catholic Church and seeing what is a technical term “venerate” as opposed to worship. The outsider will always see this as worship; which will always cause a stumbling block to a believer or potential believer, which Paul warned against. Therefore; in my opinion; there should be no visible evidence of this “veneration” because the perceived action is louder than the word.

Again; just my opinion that I believe is supported Biblically as Paul spoke to people speaking in tongues or when a new believers conscience says not to eat something that God says is okay; the mature believer is not to force the new one against his/her conscience.

Tanner
 
The main reason is that the Eucharist is not offered to those who are baptized and believe in the Real Presence. And yes, I know all the reasons why. And no, I do not and cannot agree with them.
The main reason why people believe that there is saving value in communion is because they are misunderstanding that anything added to faith then becomes a work man does trying to save himself. That will never work. Eph 2:1-10 please this passage very carefully.
 
hello DK, what good do polemics achieve? (Quote from Janet)God does give us a new heart and makes us capable to follow Him and to please Him. He will put a new heart within us and we will be clean.
That is being born again.
I do not see much evidence of that in this forum from the protesters,:confused:Carlan
1: Please check my signature (although I can’t take credit for coming up with it) for the meaning of “protestant”.

2: Please remove the log from your own (the plural “you”, not the singular as in you personally) eyes before you think yourself qualified to remove the splinter in your brother’s eye. When harassed enough, people tend to bite back. I see even less “evidence of that” from the RCs in this thread.
 
A text passage somewhere in a book that is not known to everybody does not change the fact that is has vanished from the pulpits.
Perhaps from the Southern Baptist pulpits but not frm the Pulpits of the catholic Churches I attend-. but then I know you can like commnets about the Church and not explain yourself-its easier that way.
 
A text passage somewhere in a book that is not known to everybody does not change the fact that is has vanished from the pulpits.
The Church has the same doctine on hell it has for the last 2,000 years,. Nothing has changed. its very difficult to hold discussion with a person that rejects the clear teachings of the church and who’s only explanation is “I know better”.
 
You are incorrect that baptism is needed for salvation In John 3:5 baptism here refers to our natural birth. The in 3 :15-18 Jesus tells us how to be saved and baptism is never mentioned. Jesus did say that faith saves us and not believing condemns us. Jesus never said water baptism saves us. If He did were did He?
This passage is referring to baptism. The Apostles did not separate the water from the HS, so we do not. No where is natural birth equated with ‘water’. Natural birth in scripture is always related to blood. Otherwise, why would Mary have needed a sacrifice for purification after the birth of Jesus? She did not offer two turtledoves for “water” uncleanness!
Can you show me one verse that says if we are not baptized we are lost?
Jeuse teaches that the one who believes and is baptized will be saved. That does not equate to what you have stated here. God can save whoever He wants, however He likes.
 
And why aren’t you Lutheran? 😉

God bless
Let’s see what the answer should be. Well, first lets see who the Churches were started by. The Lutheran Church was started by Martin Luther. The Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ. I will say no more 🙂

God Bless
 
The Church has the same doctine on hell it has for the last 2,000 years,. Nothing has changed. its very difficult to hold discussion with a person that rejects the clear teachings of the church and who’s only explanation is “I know better”.
Then tell me, when did you ever hear the word “hell” in a sermon?
Did you know that Matthew 7:13-14 is not part of the liturgical year?
Matthew 6:24-35 is the reading for the 8th Sunday in year A
Matthew 7:21-27 is the reading for the 9th Sunday in year A
(that was last year… this year is year B and both Sundays are in the time after Easter anyways… 7th Sunday of Easter and Pentecost)
Strange, huh?
Many Protestant churches have a free choice what to pick out of Scripture and still hell is not mentioned. I listened to some really good and powerful preachers in a military chapel in Germany and even in one of their greatest sermons the word “hell” was not mentioned (even though one came close to thinking about it listening to the sermon).
Preachers do not want to preach about it anymore… some for fear they might scare parishoners away or draw their dislike upon themselves, some maybe because they don’t want to be known as hellfire preachers and others maybe even because they think that all of their listeners are saved, so why bother? Where are the ones that were not scared of telling people the truth even though it might be uncomfortable? The true Gospel is scandalous! It was for the longest time and it still is… The worst thing that can happen to a preacher is that they are getting civilized. Preachers need to be dangerous about truth! They need to proclaim it, not caring about the reaction of the people. Why is it that the greatest preachers of all times would not be welcome in most modern churches if they were showing up? Most of today’s sermons amount to little more than “Positive Mental Attitude,” feel-good drivel: “How to think better about yourself,” “How to squander more money on yourself,” “How to ‘find yourself,’” “How to pamper yourself,” ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
For example, can you imagine how the average church in America today would react to the decisions of Daniel and the three Hebrew children? All four of them were unashamed and unhesitant to practice civil disobedience. All four of them were charged with capital crimes by their government and sentenced to death. In Daniel’s case, all he had to do was not pray out loud to God for thirty days. Thirty days! I can just hear today’s Christian pragmatists screaming, “It’s only for thirty days. You can still pray in your heart. We must obey the government.” Can you imagine Daniel being asked to preach a message on “How And When To Defy Your Government” to the vast majority of churches in America today? Forget it!
It wasn’t much better for the Apostles and disciples in the New Testament. John the Baptist was beheaded for “meddling in politics.” The Apostles were beaten, stoned, and jailed. The Apostle Paul was especially hated. He was hated by Jews; he was hated by Romans; he was hated by businessmen; he was hated by politicians; he was even hated by fellow ministers.
Can you imagine the Apostle Paul preaching a message on “Conquering Low Self-Esteem”? Get real! Give Paul an opportunity today to preach to a church of one thousand members one Sunday morning, and by Sunday night (if they even had a Sunday night service), there might be fifty people back to hear him.
No wonder our people today have become self-centered, sensitive, and shallow. They seldom, if ever, hear honest, straight-forward, fearless preaching.
 
Im sorry but ancedotal evidence proves nothing. There is nothing in the Rubrics about a Priest bwoing when he mentions the name Mary. Rather than let everyone here dedcide can you post a link to where the Church has now or ever has taught we should worship Mary?
I’m simply asking - in the church I grew up in where this took place, was that worship of Mary going on? Sometimes what is done speaks louder than what is on paper. I mean, the upper left corner of this web site doesn’t help the case! Walking into my old church, it is clear who was the focal point (in that church) and it wasn’t Jesus.

I’ve been questioned why I am in this forum - this is an example. I was raised Catholic with a heavy focus on Mary (not looking to get into the praying to Mary conversation at this point). It seems most non-Catholics somehow have a notion that Catholics worship Mary. Are that many people mistaken? I’m not trying to be difficult, just looking for honest answers - why does the church I was raised in have an enormous painting of Mary on the ceiling?
 
I’m simply asking - in the church I grew up in where this took place, was that worship of Mary going on? Sometimes what is done speaks louder than what is on paper. I mean, the upper left corner of this web site doesn’t help the case! Walking into my old church, it is clear who was the focal point (in that church) and it wasn’t Jesus.

I’ve been questioned why I am in this forum - this is an example. I was raised Catholic with a heavy focus on Mary (not looking to get into the praying to Mary conversation at this point). It seems most non-Catholics somehow have a notion that Catholics worship Mary. Are that many people mistaken? I’m not trying to be difficult, just looking for honest answers - why does the church I was raised in have an enormous painting of Mary on the ceiling?
**From a previous post on previous page:
To the outsider looking in at the Catholic Church and seeing what is a technical term “venerate” as opposed to worship. The outsider will always see this as worship; which will always cause a stumbling block to a believer or potential believer, which Paul warned against. Therefore; in my opinion; there should be no visible evidence of this “veneration” because the perceived action is louder than the word.

Again; just my opinion that I believe is supported Biblically as Paul spoke to people speaking in tongues or when a new believers conscience says not to eat something that God says is okay; the mature believer is not to force the new one against his/her conscience.

My guess is that God will not so partiality to semantics; do you?**

Tanner
 
Not too long ago being born of water meant simply being born… any anyone who has ever witnessed the water breaking with a pregnant woman can attest to the fact that this is truly being born of water…
I am not sure what you mean by “not too long ago”, but in Biblical times, human birth is always a matter of blood. Otherwise, there would be no need of purification. No one is required to be purfied from water! Why did Mary offer two turtledoves after Jesus was born? Hint : it had nothing to do with water!
On top of that Christian baptism isn’t even instituted until Acts, chapter 2 so it can’t be that…
No, Janet. Jesus taught the disciples how to baptize while he was preaching and teaching at the Jordan. He sanctifed the waters of baptism when He entered them. He commissioned the Apostles to baptize before His resurrection.
The problem is that we can’t interpret an Americanism into something back then… They didn’t have that colloquial expression for that fluid [that] we have, calling it “water.”
It seems like that is exactly what you are doing, inserting the modern notion of amniotic fluid into birth.
I think the solution is directly in the context. Jesus is talking a ruler of the Jews. And those who ruled over the Jews were in religious authority, not political or military authority. Nicodemus would not have understood it as Christian baptism or just being born, but he would have looked at it in the light of scripture as he was a religious authority of himself. Jesus knew who he was talking to and as much as he simplified His teachings for the woman at the well, He made sure that the ruler to the Jews understood His meaning.
I agree. He explained that baptism is being born again of water and Spirit. 👍
What Ezekiel is writing there is, that the day is going to come when the Lord will wash your heart, He will wash your life; He will wash your inner man. He will put a new heart within you and He will put his Spirit in you.
Nicodemus knows immediately that he is saying, “I am come to bring the fulfillment of the promised new covenant, promised to and through Ezekiel.” His is a Jewish Old Testament context, and so it would be actually what the apostle Paul calls, “The washing of regeneration.” The washing, the internal washing of regeneration, and the renewing that comes by the Holy Spirit, that’s Titus 3:5 where you have both the water and the Spirit.
That is our regeneration when God does give us a new heart and makes us capable to follow Him and to please Him. He will put a new heart within us and we will be clean.
That is being born again.
Yes, I think so! I think Nicodemus was able to put this together, maybe not right away, but eventually.
 
A text passage somewhere in a book that is not known to everybody does not change the fact that is has vanished from the pulpits.
The Catholic faith is an assent to the truth, the Truth of Jesus, not just experiential. I wonder how one knows what is going on at all the ambos of the Catholic world. The Holy Spirit was promised to the Church and the manifestation of this is in the authoritative teaching, no matter the level of people’s cooperation with this truth. The Pharisees denied Jesus by not looking deeper, same thing today with His “Body” and the Spirit leading us to all truth, not by actions or we are all doomed, as it is said “The righteous man sins 7 times a day”. There is one Truth, Jesus, and the Church brings it to us, no matter how hard it is to find it today amidst all the opinions and untruth of the “Lier” in this world. The Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth of Jesus.
 
Didn’t Nicodemus ask the same question?

While as a Friend I have never been baptized with water…I have been born naturally and from above through the Spirit. Not all Christians have your belefs but they still are Christians.
The Apostles taught that those who were not baptized were not members of the Body, and had not yet been born again.
 
Friend, I know that you believe that you do not need to be baptised …It is however an outward sign for everybody to see…
This is a concept found nowhere in scripture, or in the teaching of the Apostles. Furthermore, it reveals a lack of knowledge about the history of the christian church. The Church was persecuted for 300 years, and all such activities were conducted secretly, and privately. Baptism was never for “everybody to see”. On the contrary, such blatant and flagrant atheism earned one the death penalty.
 
I do not need to explain myself when I reject a church that teaches heresies… I simply reject it.
This certainly seems to be a statement made out of an inability to explain oneself. What you did was reject it based upon your experience, then demonstrated that you were unable to show where the Church actually teaches what you thought it teaches. Your credibility is quickly dissolving :eek:
 
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