Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

[Carlan]

• There is a slight error on this page. “Homosexuality” should read “Homosexual acts”, because the Catholic Church dose not consider homosexuality to be a sin. It considers homosexual activity to be a sin. Homosexual tendecies are not sins but just crosses. And “Drinking Wine” should read “Drinking Wine & Drunkenness”, since the scriptural passages deal with not only the good of drinking wine but also the evil of drunkenness.
  While not a substitute for knowing your faith, this Bible Cheat Sheet is a useful tool for those of us not blessed with a photographic memory.

Verses marked with an asterisk (*) are objector verses that you should know. If you want to save space on your cheat sheet, you may want to delete them.

I got these from my Bible cheat sheet just to show the scriptural evidence for the Catholic teaching’s. I haven’t even read all of them myself so tell me what you think. They are not full quotes so if you want to find out more you will have to look them up.

Joe, Thank you very very much. I am new to Catholic answers and appreciate this help you have given. Carlan
God Bless!

 

[guanophore]

I’m simply asking - in the church I grew up in where this took place, was that worship of Mary going on? Sometimes what is done speaks louder than what is on paper. I mean, the upper left corner of this web site doesn’t help the case! Walking into my old church, it is clear who was the focal point (in that church) and it wasn’t Jesus.

I’ve been questioned why I am in this forum - this is an example. I was raised Catholic with a heavy focus on Mary (not looking to get into the praying to Mary conversation at this point). It seems most non-Catholics somehow have a notion that Catholics worship Mary. Are that many people mistaken? I’m not trying to be difficult, just looking for honest answers - why does the church I was raised in have an enormous painting of Mary on the ceiling?

It is probably a church dedicated to Our Lady. A church dedicated to Peter or Paul will have a likeness of them. Or one dedicated to St. Francis, etc. There is one near here with a gorgeous bronze of St. Bernadette. It doesn’t mean that the Catholic faith is centered on them.

I think it is shallow to judge people’s hearts when they are praying. If they are committing idolatry, then God knows their heart. It is impossible to worship someone without an act of the will, so they can’t do it by “accident”.

 

[guanophore]

Again; just my opinion that I believe is supported Biblically as Paul spoke to people speaking in tongues or when a new believers conscience says not to eat something that God says is okay; the mature believer is not to force the new one against his/her conscience.

My guess is that God will not so partiality to semantics; do you?

Tanner

Do you think that Catholics are trying to “force” something?

 

[guanophore]

Water baptism is the public testimony of the believer’s personal faith. A person is saved when he places faith in Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith.

This is a modern American Fundamentalist revision. This concept cannot be found anywhere in Scripture, or in the Teaching of the Apostles.

It also reveals an ignorance of the History of Christianity. The Church was persecuted for 300 years, and anyone who flaunted his baptism in public could count on a quick execution. Therefore, baptisms were done in private, with only the faithful in attendance.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Followers of Jesus were called Christians, not Roman Catholic!

The word catholic in the bible was a greek adjective that means “united” or “universal” and was used to describe the whole body of the followers of Jesus Christ (aka Christians)

The final books of the NT were not complete until around 100 AD and if there was some inkling of a Roman Catholic Church already existing, don’t you think one of the writers would have mentioned it?

The word CATHLOIC did not come in until about 103=06 ad

 

[guanophore]

No. I just am quite annoyed by the fact that people are quoting scripture out of context at me and changing topics constantly.

Yeah, it is hard to keep up on some of these fast moving threads.

However, the “context” of the NT is the Catholic Church. It was written by, for, and about Catholics. There is nothing in it htat is not Catholic. It is not possible to understand it correctly outside of it’s context, the Catholic Church.

First I say something about the Catholic church and then I am being told that I have a deficient knowledge about the Church.

Well, you did post the errors on a Catholic forum. What did you expect? Did you think we were all going to sit back and let you misrepresent the truth?

Then I quote the Catechism to support my claims and that is being ignored and scripture is quoted at me without any context.
I am sick and tired of re-acting while people jump around me.

Well, good. Maybe now we can get somewhere with this discussion.

Either we are talking about the Church or the Bible…

Actually, we are supposed to be talking about why you won’t be Catholic.

However, the Apostles never separated the Scriptures from the Church. Whenever people did this, the Apostles and their successors called them “heretics”.

if I seem to misunderstand something, ok… but when I then go ahead and quote the same authority that is being brought up before to deplete me as the authority I base my claims on I am being ignored.

You claim to base your authority on Scripture, but scripture cannot wield authority. Scripture, Holy as it is, does not have a will, conscience, and the ability to take responsibility. This is part of the requirement to be in authority.

I simply do the same. I will not respond to those who cannot seem to keep a topic. Once I get something right (with the knowledge of the Catechism it has to be) the topic is quickly dropped and not further discussed. Do you call that credible??

I have not found anything you posted so far credible, except for the perceptions of your childhood, which I have to accept on your testimony.

 

[guanophore]

Luke 11:27-28 - What did Jesus think of Marian worship?

No one was worshipping Mary.

"As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

“On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it”

This phrase is better translated “even more rather” instead of “contrary”. We know that Mary is blessed to give birth to the saviour, because Holy Scripture testifies to this, so it does not mean that her motherhood is not blessed also. He is saying “Blessed even more, rather, are those who…”

He is holding up His mother as a model of obedience and faith. She heard the word of God, and observed it, and this is an even greater blessing than her motherhood. She is twice blessed!

No worship, though.

 

[estesbob]

I bolded the words from the Catholic Doctrine, not my interpretation! Do you even read anything someone writes before replying?

and when she is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful to come to her son

I cant find this in any of the Vatican II docouments. The ONLY place I find it is on anti-catholic websites. ALL the Vatican II documents are on line so you should be able to provide us a link if it does indeed exist.

 

[guanophore]

Here is how I know I am right.
Acts 16:31 says that when a person believes in Christ he will be saved.

Q. Will a person be saved if he places his faith in Christ for salvation?

The answer to this question wil prove that your religion is a works oriented or not.

Anything added to faith alone for salvation then becomes a work man must do to be saved.

You are drawing a faulty conclusion from a faulty premise. The manner in which a person demonstrates his faith in Christ can be variable, so you cannot use it to draw only one conclusion.

Obedience to the faith is not “adding to faith”, and there is only one place in scripture where the words “faith alone” appear together. Do you know where?

Faith working through love is not “work a man must do to be saved”. It is acting in accordance with the works that God prepared before the foundation of the world that we should walk in them. Grace is the hand which animates the glove of good deeds.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t interpret. I read.

That’s silly Janet, we have to interpret every thing we read, hear, and sense. Such a statement shows that you know even less about human perception than you do about Catholicism!

Our perceptions of what we read are influence by our experiences and education (or lack of it).

And all I said was that the status of Mary comes close to worship… Even though it is called differently (hyperdulia)… where is the difference in the hearts of the people?

I submit that you have no clue what worship is.

As to the hearts of people, I think this is an excellent question! Who are you to judge the intentions of their hearts?

Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. What does that tell you? It tells me that she is “the cause of salvation”.

Well…what does that mean to you? Do you think that she would have contributed to teh salvation of the world more perfectly by disobedienc?

How will you tell me that someone who is not as educated as you and therefore does not know the difference will not worship Mary as she is the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.

It is wrong, no matter how low one’s intelligence, to worship a created being.

One cannot worship “accidently”. Inferring that one can do so demonstrates that you don’t know what worship really is. One has to will to worship, or it is not worship.

She is Queen over all things according to the Catechism. Now tell me where that was so wrong?

She is queen because her Son is God.

If I “interpret” the Catechism wrong, point it out and show me… if I just read it, why do you attack me?

Because you come across so dogmatic. You don’t say “it seems to me” you say “this is how it is”. It is not that way to us, so it comes across insulting and offensive.

“Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate.” -Pope John Paul II

What is the problem here? Don’t you know Who came through Mary?

 

[guanophore]

Dear wonderful people, read her post(from sterday can’t you see, she does not use the Catechism to find the truth she is a fallen away Catholic who has become anti catholic , she is a heretic. forgive me for my simple bluntness.Carlan

No, Carlan, she does not qualify for the status of heretic. A heretic, by defnition, must have willfully chosen to abandon the truth after knowing and embracing it. It is clear that she was poorly catechized, and never understood the Catholic faith. If she had, she never would have left. Even now, she cannot articulate Catholic beliefs well enough to adequately attack them!

Besides, it is not fruitful to use labels of this sort. It only engenders hostility and does not promote useful discussion. The most that can be said of her is that she has embraced heretical doctrines, but she clearly has done so in good faith, sincerely believing that she has found the truth.

 

[guanophore]

Where does it point back to Christ? Why is this not obvious in the so called veneration of the populace (every participated in a litany?)

There is no reason to honor anyone who is not a reflection of Christ. We honor those whoh have gone before us in the faith just as scripture states:

“There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.” Rom 2:9-11

“love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.” Rom 12:10

" Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due." Rom 13:7

“Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may be well with you and that you may live long on the earth.” Eph 6:1-3

" So receive him in the Lord with all joy; and **honor **such men, 30 for he nearly died for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete your service to me "
Phil 2:29-30

“**Honor **widows who are real widows.” 1 Tim 5:3

“Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;” 1 Tim 5:17-18

“Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.” Heb 13:7

Why is language used that normally describes God alone? Why can I substitute “God” or “Jesus” in the Salve Regina and then it is worship and does not look out of place?

Because you don’t understand the nature of worship, or the use of language.

Why does Pope Pius IX write in his encyclical:
“Her foot has crushed the head of Satan.”

Is there some reason he should not write this? He is just quoting from Genesis.

There are so many things that come together: Language in general, people bowing down before her statues, people praying to her, devotions to her and words that are only used in connection with God or Jesus Christ.

Apparently you are scandalized.

She gave birth to a child and she gave herself over to the will of God. That is respectable and great. She raised the Messiah, that is an honour. She is however a sinner like everybody else and depended upon salvation.

No, Janet. The Mother of God is not " a sinner like everybody else". She is full of grace. Where grace is full, there is no room for sin.

Jesus Christ is not being coerced by His mother in any way, form or fashion.

Well, why would He? He is quick to give her whatever she asks. No coercion is necessary! He is a good Jewish boy who loves His mother! Wonder how many flowers He brought her, or nice things He made for her out of His love.

Nowhere in scripture do we find that she is sitting right next to Him in heaven pleasing for the poor souls who are still on earth or have already departed.

Well, most of the NT was already written when she was assumed. Where we see reference to this is in Revelation, which is one of the few that was written that late.

All this is either practical living of Catholics and/or Catholic teaching. I am not making this up… My grandmother is very adamant about that. She loves Mary and there is no way I can get her from lighting a candle in front of her little statue she’s got there and to do it for my sake.

This is part of her private devotions. Why would you try to stop her?

She is very loving, but nobody would dare to stop her from doing it (except maybe for Grandpa who made her stop for several years because of the fire hazard… one of the little candles caught fire and nearly lit the curtain up…)
I’ve seen it and I’ve done it myself. I was at a nunnery! I lived Catholic piety and I did believe it myself.

Well, it sounds like you never understood what you claim to believe. If you really believe that Catholics worship Mary, or you were worshipping her, then you misunderstood.

Sorry, I guess I’m rambling… but I think it had to be said…

Yes, this is the place to get it out.

 

[guanophore]

(Apart form the fact that I don’t buy her resurrection story…)

What theory is that? I have never heard of a Marian “resurrection story” but it does not sound Catholic to me. I probably would not “buy it” either. Who is selling it?

 How how does this passage reflect back on Christ? Even if the power came from Christ and through her obedience, that does not change the title the Church is giving her.

Try reading this section very slowly. Then think of yourself as the “she” being referred to, instead of Mary.

“…so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.”

What title did the Church give Mary that bothers you?

We are all being conformed to the image of Christ. The Apostle Paul urges us, by the mercies of God, to present our bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is our spiritual service of worship. He tells us not to be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind.

Mary did this. That is why she is such a good role model!

Well if it wasn’t so, why ask her? I do not believe it myself, but the Church asks her. Why do so if she cannot make things happen?
2618 The Gospel reveals to us how Mary prays and intercedes in faith. At Cana, the mother of Jesus asks her son for the needs of a wedding feast; this is the sign of another feast - that of the wedding of the Lamb where he gives his body and blood at the request of the Church, his Bride. It is at the hour of the New Covenant, at the foot of the cross, that Mary is heard as the Woman, the new Eve, the true “Mother of all the living.”

Why do you suppose that John included this story in his gospel?

What is it about the servants bringing their problem to Mary, then Mary to Jesus, do you find coercive?

This is one occasion where she actually tells Him that there is a need and He reacts with His first miracle. On other occasions He is denying her…

No, Janet. You have misunderstood. Jesus never denies His mother. Her will is perfectly conformed to His, (like ours will one day be). She does not ask Him anything that is not in conformity to His will, so He is happy to grant her requests.

Why pick one out for private interpretation while there are other verses to interpret this scene with which are saying quite the opposite… That is not too credible…

The interpretation here is not a private one. This is what the Apostles delivered to the Church. That is what is meant by public revelation.

Apart from that… why ask her if she cannot do anything?

Why indeed?! Has it never occurred to you that the reason Mary is so venerated in the ?Church is that prayers directed to her yield so much fruit that word gets around?

I mean that does not make sense to me. If the regular Catholic is being told to ask Mary, he thinks that she will be able to change things…

Yes. SHe can do whatever God empowers her to do, just like you can.

Why isn’t there any clarification by the Church? Why is there even more complication?
2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus’ mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.

I am sorry that you find this confusing. I am not sure what is confusing about it.

Do you not believe that God uses figures to communicate to us?

Do you not believe that Mary adhered to the plan of the father?

Do you not believe the Father sent His Son to save all men

Do you not believe that you are one of the beloved disciples?

Do you reject the communion of saints?

BTW… Why is the improper use of the name of Mary Blasphemy?
2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of God’s name. Blasphemy is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints in an offensive way.

The saints who have gone on before us are united with Christ in His Resurrection. Insulting them insults Him. Jesus makes no distinction between Himself, and His Body, the Church.

 

[guanophore]

My post No. 220 was in reply to this request.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5476830&postcount=220

This is an unfortunate semantics problem. In Latin, there are three levels of honor/devotion, all unfortunately translated “worship”. The highest form of these is reserved only for God. However, it is impossible to tell, when reading the words in a context such as this, that this is not referring to worship given only to God.

Mary is never the center of Catholic worship. Worship, for Catholics, is the Mass.

 

[imjustme]

This is an unfortunate semantics problem. In Latin, there are three levels of honor/devotion, all unfortunately translated “worship”. The highest form of these is reserved only for God. However, it is impossible to tell, when reading the words in a context such as this, that this is not referring to worship given only to God.

Mary is never the center of Catholic worship. Worship, for Catholics, is the Mass.

Someone asked a non-Catholic to show where it says that Mary is to be worshipped in Catholic doctrine and I did…now you say it is “semantics”…I am getting the feeling that anything we (non-Catholics) say will be discarded as semantics or worse…

Here is something from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that says “we can pray with and to her”

2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (prayer), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus’ mother into our homes,39 for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. the prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.

From: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P9F.HTM

Please understand that I’m no trying to dismiss Mary as a blessed woman, but prayer to God must be only through Jesus. This is why this topic is upsetting to (some) other Christians.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

For example, I manage a company and am the gatekeeper for the owner. Someone wanting to sell us something needs to deal with me directly. They seem to always want to talk to the owner. If they talk to the bookkeeper, she will forward it to me…likewise if they talk to the owner, he will forward it to me…I am the one they need to talk to. Now if someone wants to sell us something and they try to go through the bookkeeper behind my back when I’ve told them to come to me, I’m not going to be happy and may even disregard their offer for trying to go around me or behind my back.

JESUS told us to go to him directly! Why is that so hard to obey? Where does it say “Ask Mary if you don’t want to ask me directly” ?? No where…and don’t refer me to Jesus asking John to take care of her or some far flung verse that has nothing at all to do with getting to God or heaven. Jesus is our Savior! He died on the cross for us! He said to go to Him…don’t we owe Him that little bit of honor and respect?

 

[aarontassin]

I pity those who believe that faith alone will guarantee your salvation. I pity those who live their lives according to one small piece of scripture. I have noticed that these poor lost souls pick the scripture that conveniences their sinfull nature. It’s almost as if they believe that once they are “saved” they have a free pass to do whatever they want and sin however they please and because they are saved they are guaranteed a ticked to heaven simply because they believe. Yes there are a few verses that lean that way and can easily be tailored to say whatever you want them to, as long as they make life easy. Right… I fear for your souls. Take this scripture you ignorant people that believe that faith alone will “save” you. It starts at Matthew 7:21… “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Do you know what an iniquity is? It is an unjust act. If I had a dollar for every protestant who told me they were “saved” and were guaranteed a place in heaven on the day of their death, then went home and committed what us “stupid catholics” consider a mortal sin, I would have a lot of dollars. A LOT. 1Co 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” I know a lot of “saved” protestants that practice a lot of these horrible lifestyles. I know a lot of catholics who do as well. I want to know what the heck people are thinking. How did it come to this? How did everyone become so deceived. Catholics have it tough but protestants apparantly are screwing themselves. Mat 16:18 “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Get an ALMANAC you ignorant protestants. Or an encycolpedia. You can literally trace the lineage of all the popes ALL THE WAY TO PETER! From the pope we have now all the way back to that guy Jesus said he would build HIS church. Not Martin Luthers… Not Bob the baptist. Not Methead the methodist. Peter the pope, the rock, the foundation for the ONE AND ONLY church that Jesus himself gave us in order to continue the apostolic ministry. It is an apostle’s job to minister to the saints. “Paul said that” Only the saints go STRAIGHT to heaven because to be a saint you have to do the will of God in it’s entirity. “Jesus said that” Everyone else has to wait until the last day or until all of your sins have been consumed by fire.
As for confessing to a priest… Jesus said to do it! Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." The catholic church is a continuance of the apostolic ministry. DUH! Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins. Obviously. Look at the gospel. How did you protestants miss that part? It’s in the same book as John 3:16… OH i forgot those apostles are all dead… my bad. Are you calling Jesus a fool? Don’t you think he had enough common sense to know that men will sin until the end of time? Yes he did, so why should the ministry of forgiveness of sins stop with the death of the last apostle? It shouldn’t! That’s why he created the catholic church! To continue that ministry. From Peter to Benedict we are the same church with the same ministry. To withstand the gates of hell. The catholic church will withstand the gates of hell. What does PROTESTant mean? You are protesting that very church! Good luck protestants. You apparantly need it. I will pray for you everyday hoping that Jesus will overlook your ignorance when he comes back to raise the dead. If you wanted to help yourselves out you could embrace his church rather than… PROTEST

 

[LutheranDK]

Who said this:

Knowing your style, you’re trying to set a trap. The answer is probably Martin Luther, and you know what?
I don’t really care all that much.

See, Luther was not infallible, although some RCs still claim that Lutherans say he was.
Secondly, you just underlined my point, and you’ll understand why, if you know a little about Luther’s background.

 

[LutheranDK]

Have you read this thread? Have you seen the multitude of posters who have said the spirit has guided them to know exactly what scripture means?

Did you read what I asked?

Have anyone claimed to be infallible? To be **unable **to err in matters of faith and morals?

 

[LutheranDK]

The pope is only infallible at certain times. I don’t remember the exact time and what it’s called. But he’s not always speaking infallibly.

And I don’t consider my submission to the Catholic church as being derogatory.

Also, without quoting a million different posts:

Just because YOU say that the Catholic Church is making a “claim,” it doesn’t make the claim by the Church false. You simply don’t believe it.

There ARE people, some of whom consider themselves Christian, who believe Christ had brothers and sisters. There are even some who believe he was married too. And since they believe he was married, they also believe he had children.

No, not all non-Catholic christians believe that, but some do.

I know what the RC teachings on the infallibility (typo?) of the Bishop of Rome is, but thank you for clarifying

Secondly, I didn’t mean it to be derogatory. It’s just that some over-sensitive people (or those wanting to change the subject) might have taken the word “submission” and used it to start off a rambling about how misunderstood they are, etc.

“Just because YOU say that the Catholic Church is making a “claim,” it doesn’t make the claim by the Church false. You simply don’t believe it.”

Agreed, but it doesn’t make it true, either.

“There ARE people, some of whom consider themselves Christian, who believe Christ had brothers and sisters. There are even some who believe he was married too. And since they believe he was married, they also believe he had children.”

True, but if you look at their teachings, they are not Christians. Not one of those people could subscribe, I would guess, to any one of the Ancient Symbols, be it Apostolicum, Nicaenum-Constantinopolitanum or Athanasium.
Therefore, they are not Christians.
To CALL yourself “Christian” is meaningless if you reject those basic Christian truths contained therein.

 

[LutheranDK]

I don’t think anyone believes in a ‘truth’ they don’t want to believe in.

Oh yes…
I don’t WANT to believe in hell. I would MUCH prefer it if hell didn’t exist (or rather: Will not come into existence).
That does not, however, change the fact that Scriptures talk about hell, and that it is described as a very real place, where some(most) people will go.

Okay, you are okay with Jesus being an only child as long as the Church doesn’t say so? Please clarify.

sigh
I’m THIS close to giving up…
No, what I’m saying is that whether or not Jesus was an only child is adiaphoron. But the RC teachings that neccesitate (yeah, probably typo…) this teaching is certainly NOT.

Awe, seriously. You think I’m arrogant? I’m the least arrogant person here. You’re just a little too used to abrasive folks.

You’re probably right. In the heat of battle, some people that don’t deserve it sometimes gets hit. I apologize.

I asked why do people want to humanize God and you call me arrogant oh, and accuse me of lying (notice I stopped short of saying you called me a lier because I’m not overly sensitive and in a bad mood like you are). I really enjoy your posts. I apologize for having hit a button.

Again, my apologies. Getting caught in the cross-fire can be an ugly business
That last comment was an extension of the “Jesus was married and had children”-controversy mentioned above.