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Bill_Pick
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O MY you are going to have more luck proing the Pope is not Cathloic,say a whole lot of prays
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benidict
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alright david mark. thanks, found the post. lol! appreciate it.
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benidict
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im sure the abraham moses and the rest of the prophets are glad to hear that. also clement ignatius, origen and augustine. none of which were baptist. lol! but thank you.
love in Christ
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Bill_Pick
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Thank God it only your opinion and we all know about opinion we all have one
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guanophore
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Well, everything you have said here applies to the Catholic Church! that is why we see it that way. However, Peter did not start the Catholic Church, Jesus did. “Upon this Rock, i will build my Church”. Peter is a Rock, made Rocky by being grafted into Christ, the Rock of Ages. His confession is also a “rocky” statement, a firm foundation of faith. They are not separated.
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guanophore
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One might think that from a human point of view, but God sees the heart. He renamed Simon “Rock” because He intended to make Him rocky! All of the objects of the reference are accurate. Christ is The Rock, the statement is also, as is Peter, because Jesus says He is (not because he was acting like it all the time). God never renames a person without great import. He did not rename Simon into Cephas (Rock) just to hear Himself talk.
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Selene
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Hello Dizzy_dave,
Wow! This is a hard one! In my opinion, I think I would say that the Catholic Church is the true church that Jesus Christ founded because we fulfilled the prophecy of St. Peter, which is similar to the prophecy Moses made to a group of Hebrew slaves.
God has always chosen the poor, the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen one. He never choose the strong or the wealthest person. God always chooses the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen ones and through them, His power is shown. Abraham was chosen because he was very old and his wife was barren. God’s power made Abraham the father of many nations. David was also chosen, and he was only a shepherd boy, but it was this shepherd boy who had no military skills that defeated Goliath. This shepherd boy also became a king because only God had the power to turn a shepherd boy into a king. St. Paul was a grea sinner as he murdered Christians, but he was God’s chosen. The Hebrew people were chosen because they were slaves, and slaves are the poorest of the poor. However, this chosen race became a nation (Ex. 19:6). Moses told this group of people that they are God’s chosen people, his priesthood, and a consecrated nation. St. Peter made a similar speech to the Christians. St. Peter told the Christians that they are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and a consecrated nation (1 Peter 2:9). Of all the Christian denomination, ony the Catholic Church became a nation with the Pope as “Head of State.” God’s chosen people became a nation in time. God’s chosen church also became a nation. History shows that the Catholic Church was not perfect. But, history also shows that God’s chosen people (the Hebrews) were also not perfect, but out Israel came our Savior Jesus Christ. And out of God’s chosen church came many saints.
Peace be with you,
Selene
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Dokimas
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Depends upon what you mean. If you mean your’s is no better than mine, nor the opinion of your church, I’d agree. If you mean the only opinion that counts is God’s and it is our priviledge to conform our opinions to His, again I agree.
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DavidMark
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Christ also stood on the authority of His word, He being the Word, which is the Water of Life. Peter tried to stand on this authority too, like a child learning to walk, and had a stumble or two. A similar thing happened when the Queen of Sheba visited Solomon, and thought his polished court was water…she lifted her hem so that it would not get wet.Christ is The Rock, the statement is also, as is Peter, because Jesus says He is (not because he was acting like it all the time). God never renames a person without great import. He did not rename Simon into Cephas (Rock) just to hear Himself talk.
**
Drink with healthy relish, O people of Bahá. Ye are indeed they with whom it shall be well. This is what they who have near access to God have attained. This is the flowing water ye were promised in the Qur’án, and later in the Bayan, as a recompense from your Lord, the God of Mercy. Blessed are they that quaff it.
O My servant that hath turned thy face towards Me! Render thanks unto God for having sent down unto thee this Tablet in this Prison, that thou mayest remind the people of the days of thy Lord, the All-Glorious, the All-Knowing. Thus have We established for thee, through the waters of Our wisdom and utterance, the foundations of thy belief.
This, verily, is the water whereon the Throne of thy Lord hath been raised. “His Throne had stood upon the waters.” Ponder this in thine heart, that thou mayest comprehend its meaning. Say: Praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds.** (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 46)
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Hisalone
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How can you prove the unprovable?
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Bill_Pick
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I,m very sorry what part of this did you not understand, I said nothing about a church,I was talking about your opinion,and your opinion ,and no one else
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Dokimas
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Care to comment about your most recent statement in light of your earlier highlighted comment?
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rev_kevin
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Yes most does apply to the Catholic church so really there is not much difference in beliefs on some issues. Although we agree on some issues we still worship differently and have some different beliefs. However, I disagree with the statement that Jesus started the Catholic church. Jesus started Christianity which is backed up in the Bible. I see no proof or evidence that he started the Catholic church. So now I’m confused on your beliefs because here on the Catholic Answers I have been told several times and I beleive by you also, but I could be wrong, that Peter started the Catholic church, so which is it Jesus or Peter???
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Randy_Carson
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Jesus founded a visible Church
Adapted from “The Necessity of Being Catholic”
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm
The Church Jesus Christ founded is a visible communion. This is proven in Matthew 16:17-19, the passage in which Christ promised the gates of hell would never prevail against his Church (meaning that it would always exist). Several factors in the text show he was talking about a visible communion.
First, Jesus made Peter head of this Church (Matt. 16:18), yet Jesus was certainly not making Peter the head of an invisible Church. It is Christ’s own prerogative to be head of the invisible communion of Christians stretching from heaven to earth (Eph. 5:23). Therefore, he must have made Peter the head of a visible, earthly church. (We will not argue here that Jesus made Peter the head; even if one disagrees, the remaining arguments prove our case.)
Second, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 16:19), which are for use in Church government (compare Isa. 22:22 – the only Old Testament parallel to this verse). But one cannot govern an invisible communion of believers, only a visible one.
Third, Jesus gave Peter the power of binding and loosing (Matt. 16:19), which Matthew 18:17-18 indicates is used in Church discipline. But one cannot exercise Church discipline over an invisible body. Indeed, Matt. 18:17-18 refers it to public excommunication, in which an individual is treated by the church as “a gentile or a tax collector” (that is, as an unbeliever).
Fourth, Jesus explicitly stated that Peter would exercise the power of binding and loosing on earth. This shows his authority is an earthly one, over an earthly Church.
Fifth, Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church (Matt. 16:18), meaning that it would never perish. But it would be ridiculous to promise that an invisible Church would not pass out of existence since some of the Church’s members are in heaven and Christ’s heavenly Church cannot pass away by its very nature. Only a visible, earthly communion needs a promise that it will never perish.
There are thus abundant reasons to conclude that the Church Jesus was discussing in Matthew 16:17-19 was a visible communion of believers, and, since only the Catholic Church goes back that far, only it can be the one Christ founded.
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rev_kevin
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Ok I see what you are trying to say. Now lets start from Matthew 16:13-20 This is when Peter says Jesus is the Messiah. This can also be found in Mark 8:27-30 and Luke 9:18-20.
V.13-17>The disciples answered Jesus’ question with the common view, that Jesus was one of the great prophets come back to life. Peter confessed Jesus as divine and as the promised and long-awaited Messiah.
V.18>The rock on which Jesus would build his church has been identified as
- Jesus himself {his work of salvation by dying for us on the cross}
- Peter {the first great leader in the church at Jeerusalem}
- The confession of faith that Peter gave and that all subsequent true beleivers would give. It seems most likely that the rock refers to Peter as the leader of the church {for his function, not necessarily his character.
Later Peter reminds Christians that they are the church built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ as the corner stone All believers are joined into his church by faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, the same faith that Peter expressed.
A church is a group of people. Jesus lives in us and showes himself to a watching world through us.
V.19>The meaning of this verse has been a subject of debate for centuries. Some say the keys represent the authority to carry out church discipline, legislation, and administration
{Matthew 18:15-18} while others say the keys give the authority to announce the forgiveness of sins {John 20:23}. Still others say the keys may abe the opportunity to bring people to the Kingdom of Heaven by presenting them with the message of salvation found in God’s word {Acts 15:7-9} The religious leaders thought they held the keys of the Kingdom, and they tried to shut some people out. To all who believe in Christ and obeys his words, the Kingdom doors are swung wide open.
V.20>Jesus warned the disciples not to publicize Peter’s confession because they did not your fully understand the kind of Messiah he had come to be. They needed to come to a full understanding of Jesus and their mission as disciples before they could proclaim it to others in a way that would not cause a revellion. They woild have a difficult time understanding what Jesus came to do until his earthly mission was complete.
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Dokimas
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Still looking forward to a real explanation why the contradiction.
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Bill_Pick
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I do not understand any thing you are talking aboutif you enjoy talking to me that much PLEASE give me a post # and then I,l know what you are trying to say And what contracdiction are you talking about me saying a pray for you…Help me are stop posting to me I know you get confused easy…Be Good
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Dokimas
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Are you deliberately not reading my total posts and them making wrong comments about what you think I’m referring to? You seem to me to be either dishonest with yourself or with your readers.
Maybe you’re trying to waste my time with your silliness. If so, I should wise up and ignore you. I’m not sure I’m able to wise up with regards to this, to my personal disappointment.
Just to continue playing your game look at post 73 as I indicated already.
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Bill_Pick
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