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tweetymom
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Click on my name and it will say send a pm
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FidesSpesCarita
Guest
My goodness, it was a joke!!! Intended for humorous effect. (At least I hope it was… if not, then for shame)
And I know that you dont want to hear it Tweetymom, but if you persistently hold and espouse beliefs that are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church and its Magisterium, you are no longer Catholic regardless of your feelings. That may be hard to accept, but it is true. There is no wiggle room there, no matter what “father says”. And if your priest is telling you ABC is OK in the Church, then he is wrong as well (that would be good for you, but bad for him (James 3:1 and others) since teachers are judged more strictly than others).
I am sorry, but its true.
And all of this is off topic, since it was how to prove the truth of the CC. I believe that Irenaeus said it best in Against Heresies: Book 3: Chapter 3
“2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.”
If you feel that you know the truth better than Irenaeus, one of the fathers of ALL Christian thought, then be my guest. My pride is not so great as to assume my knowledge to be greater than that of Irenaeus.
Pax,
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tweetymom
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Thank you, but it wasn’t a joke, He has said this to me and also asked ie I had a dementia problem etc. and etc. I believe in the Bible period I don’t neeed Irenaeus to tell me how to worship.
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onenow1
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HI, Quickest and easiest:nope: but here are some snippets from the letters of Ignatius. Probably new some Apostles.
Ignatius of Antioch (35-107 A.D.), an Apostolic Father of the Church, and the Bishop of Antioch, wrote the following letter as he was being taken in chains to Rome to be martyred. It is believed that in this letter, the words Catholic Church, were used for the first time.
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church of God the Father and the beloved Jesus Christ; a church mercifully endowed with every gift; overflowing with faith and love; lacking in no gift; radiant with God’s splendor, and fruitful mother of saints. To the Church at Smyrna in Asia I send best wishes for irreproachableness of sentiment and loyalty to the word of God.
I extol Jesus Christ, the God who has granted you such wisdom. For I have observed that you are thoroughly trained in unshaken faith, being nailed, as it were, to the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ both in body and in soul, and that you are well established in love through the Blood of Christ and firmly believe in Our Lord: He is really of the line of David according to the flesh, and the Son of God by the will and power of God; was really born of a virgin, and baptized by John in order to comply with every ordinance. Under Pontius Pilate and the tetrarch Herod He was really nailed to the cross in the flesh for our sake–of whose fruit we are, in virtue of His most blessed Passion. And thus, through the Resurrection, He raised a banner for all times for His saints and faithful followers, whether among the Jews or the Gentiles, that they might be united in a single body, that is, His Church.
All these sufferings, assuredly, He underwent for our sake, that we might be saved. And He suffered really, as He also really raised Himself from the dead. It is not as some unbelievers say, who maintain that His suffering was a make-believe. In reality, it is they that are make- believes: and, as their notion, so their end: they will be bodiless and ghostlike shapes!
. For myself, I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the Resurrection. And when He came to Peter and Peter’s companions, He said to them: “Here; feel me and see that I am not a bodiless ghost.” Immediately they touched Him and, through this contact with His Flesh and Spirit, believed.gth.
Let no one be deceived! Even the heavenly powers and the angels in their splendor and the principalities, both visible and invisible, must either believe in the Blood of Christ, or else face damnation. Let him grasp it who can. Let no rank puff up anyone; for faith and love are paramount–the greatest blessings in the world. Observe those who hold erroneous opinions concerning the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how they run counter to the mind of God! They concern themselves with neither works of charity, nor widows, nor orphans, nor the distressed, nor those in prison or out of it, nor the hungry or thirsty.
You must all follow the lead of the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed that of the Father; follow the presbytery as you would the Apostles; reverence the deacons as you would God’s commandment.
It is consonant with reason, therefore, that we should come to our senses, while we still have time to change our ways and turn to God. It is well to revere God and bishop. He who honors a bishop is honored by God.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1
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tweetymom
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What then do they hold ?HI, Quickest and easiest:nope: but here are some snippets from the letters of Ignatius. Probably new some Apostles.
Ignatius of Antioch (35-107 A.D.), an Apostolic Father of the Church, and the Bishop of Antioch, wrote the following letter as he was being taken in chains to Rome to be martyred. It is believed that in this letter, the words Catholic Church, were used for the first time.
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church of God the Father and the beloved Jesus Christ; a church mercifully endowed with every gift; overflowing with faith and love; lacking in no gift; radiant with God’s splendor, and fruitful mother of saints. To the Church at Smyrna in Asia I send best wishes for irreproachableness of sentiment and loyalty to the word of God.
I extol Jesus Christ, the God who has granted you such wisdom. For I have observed that you are thoroughly trained in unshaken faith, being nailed, as it were, to the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ both in body and in soul, and that you are well established in love through the Blood of Christ and firmly believe in Our Lord: He is really of the line of David according to the flesh, and the Son of God by the will and power of God; was really born of a virgin, and baptized by John in order to comply with every ordinance. Under Pontius Pilate and the tetrarch Herod He was really nailed to the cross in the flesh for our sake–of whose fruit we are, in virtue of His most blessed Passion. And thus, through the Resurrection, He raised a banner for all times for His saints and faithful followers, whether among the Jews or the Gentiles, that they might be united in a single body, that is, His Church.
All these sufferings, assuredly, He underwent for our sake, that we might be saved. And He suffered really, as He also really raised Himself from the dead. It is not as some unbelievers say, who maintain that His suffering was a make-believe. In reality, it is they that are make- believes: and, as their notion, so their end: they will be bodiless and ghostlike shapes!
. For myself, I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the Resurrection. And when He came to Peter and Peter’s companions, He said to them: “Here; feel me and see that I am not a bodiless ghost.” Immediately they touched Him and, through this contact with His Flesh and Spirit, believed.gth.
Let no one be deceived! Even the heavenly powers and the angels in their splendor and the principalities, both visible and invisible, must either believe in the Blood of Christ, or else face damnation. Let him grasp it who can. Let no rank puff up anyone; for faith and love are paramount–the greatest blessings in the world. Observe those who hold erroneous opinions concerning the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how they run counter to the mind of God! They concern themselves with neither works of charity, nor widows, nor orphans, nor the distressed, nor those in prison or out of it, nor the hungry or thirsty.
You must all follow the lead of the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed that of the Father; follow the presbytery as you would the Apostles; reverence the deacons as you would God’s commandment.
It is consonant with reason, therefore, that we should come to our senses, while we still have time to change our ways and turn to God. It is well to revere God and bishop. He who honors a bishop is honored by God.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1
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FidesSpesCarita
Guest
To ignore those who are wiser than yourself is to hold yourself above others, to hold your judgment above that of others who made it their life to know these things. Would you tell a Judge that you know the law better than he does? Would you tell a doctor “Well, I read a book on cancer so I dont need you”? Yet you do this with your faith?
I trust those who came before. I trust those wiser and more learned than I. I trust many people, and because of my trust and my OWN discernment and reason, I cannot ignore the fundamental truths of the Catholic Church. None other is correct. None other follows the bible, since they all choose to ignore or downplay things. The Catholic Church does NOT ignore anything in the Bible. Heck, we put it together. Our members wrote it, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. How do you argue with that other than to say “I dont believe…”?
If I dont believe that Barak Obama is president, that does not change the truth of the matter. If you do not believe in the authority of the Catholic Church, that does not change the inherent truth of the Church.
I am sorry if this seems rude, but I am not good at talking around a point or sugar coating things.
A fallacy is a fallacy even when it becomes a fad.
Dominus vobsicum,
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Dokimas
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Sacred Tradition is the Word of God according to who, the CC? If so, that’s like the Mormons saying the Book of Mormon is the Word of God or me saying I’m brilliant, tall, dark and handsome (well one out of 4 ain’t bad - and even that’s a little gray).Sacred Tradition is the Word of God, and therefore, inerrant.
What you are saying is that, if the Truth that the Apostles committed to the Church is not consistent with how you understand the Scripture, then the Teaching of theApostles is wrong.
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PRmerger
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Dokimas, I think you would agree that the Holy Spirit spoke through the early church to determine the canon of Scripture.
Catholics just give this a name: Sacred Tradition.
And, we believe that the Holy Spirit did not just speak to his church once, to determine the canon of Scripture, but continues to speak through the Magisterium.
I really think that if you can accept that the HS guided the early church then, infallibly, to determine the canon of Scripture, it’s not such a stretch to believe that the HS could also continue to infallibly guide the church today.
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Dokimas
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Are you saying Sacred Tradition is the Bible (39 books of the OT and 27 books of the NT)? Or are you including other writings and declarations of the CC leaders over the years?
I agree the Holy Spirit was involved in the canon of Scripture. He used sinners (fallible men). The outcome of what He did is infallible. Not everything we do is infallible, no matter if the Holy Spirit uses us. Paul had to correct Peter. Paul made a mistake with John Mark.
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PRmerger
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No, Sacred Tradition is NOT the Bible. ST is the HS’s voice in the Church. It is the transmission of the Divine Word "orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit” CCC 76
Here’s a great example of Sacred Tradition at work:
[BIBLEDRB]Acts 20:35.[/BIBLEDRB]
Paul gives a teaching of Christ–never mentioned in the Gospel– which has been clearly handed down orally. There is no recording at all of Jesus ever saying “it is better to give than receive”, but that “tradition” or teaching of Christ was obviously preserved ORALLY, so that Paul heard it. It was not written down anywhere that Jesus said it…yet we know he did. That’s Sacred Tradition.
Also, I’m really eager to talk to you about your thoughts on this question I asked earlier:
Post #375
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onenow1
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Leslie_Polley
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I think we can all agree that God knew what He was doing when made the human body, and I think that He knew that the act of making love between and man and a woman would be pleasueable. And I think He knew that most people, perhaps not you, but most people love it. You are stretching so far to prove that a condom on a man is against Gods law you can wrap it around you twice and still scratch your back. Horses are mated with a donkey to have a mule. Your right mules cannot have offspring…thank you for your biology lesson. As for me, a healthy sex life with your husband or wife is a wonderful thing, and God says not to withhold unless you both agree, and that is why He made it pleasureable…
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Leslie_Polley
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My dear Carmelian…FYI I was repremanded for that, and that was fine…I did however try to change the word moron…before I was repremanded. I did not call “people” a moron, just one person. Please get things straight. I will not do that again. Now God has forgiven me, I did my “penence” and YOU my dearest sweet judgemental person still bring it up. Well thats fine…I forgive you
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Leslie_Polley
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Heck, if you people (as you refer) put it together, ( the Bible), then why don’t you pay attention to what it says. You forgot to put the stuff in about praying to Mary or the Saints, is that why you put it in the Catechizm instead, because it sure isn’t in the Bible. And that part about Jesus being our intersesor…you don’t use that either and that is in the Bible , but you should know that, you put it together. Thats just one of my questions…No it does not sound rude at all, it sound pompus and your right, a fallicy is a fallicy, and most of what you said is just that… Et cum spiri tu tu oh…spelling is a mess, been away a long time
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Leslie_Polley
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AMEN
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izoid
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You just keep making yourself look worse and worse with each post you make.
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Dokimas
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If you think Mr McCain is president, no amout of believing will make him president. This is a shoe that fit both feet, if you know what I mean.
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Dokimas
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Are you Amening I’m 1 out of 4 and not even a complete 1?
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izoid
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Can you prove from Scripture that the Catholic Church is not the true Church?
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