Prove it!

[Deconi]

I guess we’re not bringing this discussion to a close. That’s okay with me.​

Those are wonderful verses and I’ve mentioned these verses before. I agree celebacy is not required in the Bible and celebacy is a good thing for serving God (I wish I could have done it).​

Here’s my problem: the CC requires celebacy for its leaders which, as you have pointed out, is against the teaching of the Bible.

Man! You guys (protestants) just rip snippets out of Scriptures at will.!!

The core of Paul’s epistle is… LIKE HIM!..celibate, to devote a life in serving the Lord!

He acknowledges that those who are married and those who are too weak to abstain from ‘the flesh’ also have a place in God’s household and not be fearful of being married! But he clearly refers to himself as the epitome of being a servant of God ONLY, …and not a wife as well…because he is celibate. The priests are called to be like him, according to Paul.

Re-read “Timothy” and ‘see’ the Bishop’s wife as being The Church…and you will see the passages works perfectly with the CC teachings. Th Bishops, including the Pope, emulate The Master by being married to The Church.

Several pages of this thread are littered with blasphemous thoughts and wanton ignorance that is sacrilegious! St. Joseph is a SAINT of The Catholic Church. To suggest that he was weak as a ‘protestant mind’ would have him and he MUST have caved to the needs of the flesh is…well…protestant!

The man didn’t want a bride that’s inexplicably pregnant!..and not BY him!

Yet, his own obedience, after God sends His messanger to him, is dimminished only by his wife’s. He understood what it meant to accept the Angel’s message and TAKE Mary as his wife, included no sex, ridicule for taking an already pregnant girl as a wife, under Jewish custom?!!..BUT HE DID IT IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD!!

…not because he thought he could defile what God’s Ark afterwards!?!
WOULD YOU? WOULD ANYONE?!!

It appears if a protestant, you would?! Fortunately, not all protestants even consider the thought.

Then there’s the suggestion that God only used Mary as a vessel, and then gave her over to Joseph as a normal wife. What does that mean? Is God a RAPIST of another man’s wife? Is He a pimp? Perhaps He just uses women who say ‘Yes!’ BLASPHEMOUS!!

MAAAAN! Stupidity was overtaken and left way back there in page 1!



Anyone can claim to be ‘Catholic.’ When they clearly profess views, understanding, beliefs and misconceptions of what ACTUAL Catholicism is, there is no other term for it;… it’s FRAUD!

 

[Dokimas]

FSC: That should answer your question about celibacy I think. It is not a requirement, but a GOOD thing.

[SIGN]Doki: Here’s my problem: the CC requires celebacy for its leaders which, as you have pointed out, is against the teaching of the Bible. [/SIGN]​

FSC: It is absolutely not against the Bible.

1st quote: FSC said celebacy was not a requirement.

2nd quote: Doki said his problem was the CC requires celebacy for its leaders which FSC agreed was not according to Scriptures.

3rd quote: FSC: it’s (in context the teaching of the CC to require celebasy for it leaders) not against the Bible.​

So is celebacy are Biblical requirement for church leaders or not? If yes, then was Paul incorrect when he said church leaders should be husbands of one wife …? If no, then why does the CC require it against the teaching of the Bible?

 

[Dokimas]

You encourage us to be honest, why don’t you be honest with us here? I pointed out earlier how protestant denominations have numerous qualifications for their pastors that are not found in scripture. Why do you persist to attack Catholic teaching while ignoring your own churches qualifications that are not found in the Bible?

Okay, make your list again and we’ll discuss it. Remember, we are speaking of requirements that, not only are they not found in the Bible, but are against the instructions in the Bible.​

If part of your list is education, you’ll have to prove that having an education requirement is against the Bible to compare a’pples with apples’.​

BTW, there’s a point you seem to be missing. Before I make the point I want to say again I have no desire to bash anyone especially the CC. Here’s the point: Over and over again those of you who are devoted to the CC tell me and others that we are NOT under the correct authority therefore, at best, we only have part of the truth. My posts have been to show you why the CC, for me, could not be the authority I follow. That’s my reasoning for answering those of you who are trying to convert me. I enjoy the challenge to my beliefs. I love to check out with the Bible if I’m correct or incorrect (and I pray the Holy Spirit is the One directing me or I’d be self deluded.)

 

[izoid]

[SIGN]Doki: Here’s my problem: the CC requires celebacy for its leaders which, as you have pointed out, is against the teaching of the Bible. [/SIGN]​

1st quote: FSC said celebacy was not a requirement.

2nd quote: Doki said his problem was the CC requires celebacy for its leaders which FSC agreed was not according to Scriptures.

3rd quote: FSC: it’s (in context the teaching of the CC to require celebasy for it leaders) not against the Bible.​

So is celebacy are Biblical requirement for church leaders or not? If yes, then was Paul incorrect when he said church leaders should be husbands of one wife …? If no, then why does the CC require it against the teaching of the Bible?

Paul gave two differing paths. One of those paths is superior to the other, celibacy. The Catholic Church chooses to adhere to the superior way, as defined by Paul.

Why do most protestants require their pastors to have a master degree or at least a bachelors degree? Is that a Biblical requirement? Why do some protestant churches require their pastors to have 2,3,4,5 or more years of preaching experience? Are these Biblical requirements?

YOu have chosen to argue a point that is hypocritical and you fail to acknowledge it. Why don’t you answer my questions?

 

[izoid]

Okay, make your list again and we’ll discuss it. Remember, we are speaking of requirements that, not only are they not found in the Bible, but are against the instructions in the Bible.​

If part of your list is education, you’ll have to prove that having an education requirement is against the Bible to compare a’pples with apples’.

Hogwash! You argue whatever you choose but put restrictions on what and how we present our argument. You have not proven that celibacy is AGAINST Biblical teaching yet you continue to argue it.

BTW…Catholics are not restricted to scripture only so your premise is false.

 

[Dokimas]

i;6090799]Man! You guys (protestants) just rip snippets out of Scriptures at will.!!

The core of Paul’s epistle is… LIKE HIM!..celibate, to devote a life in serving the Lord!

He acknowledges that those who are married and those who are too weak to abstain from ‘the flesh’ also have a place in God’s household and not be fearful of being married! But he clearly refers to himself as the epitome of being a servant of God ONLY, …and not a wife as well…because he is celibate. The priests are called to be like him, according to Paul.

Re-read “Timothy” and ‘see’ the Bishop’s wife as being The Church…and you will see the passages works perfectly with the CC teachings. Th Bishops, including the Pope, emulate The Master by being married to The Church.

QUOTE]​

Teach me. Show me the context you are speaking about that reveals the bishop’s wife is the church. Then help me in my confusion. Didn’t Paul say he tried to marry us to the Lord? Isn’t the church married to the Lord? How can the church also be married to the bishop? How many husbands does the church have?​

1 Timothy 3:
1 ¶ This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

verse 2 we see a bishop having 1 wife.
verse 4 the bishop needs to be able to rule his household
verse 5 if the bishop can’t rule his household, how can he take care of the church

Please explain.

 

[izoid]

BTW, there’s a point you seem to be missing. Before I make the point I want to say again I have no desire to bash anyone especially the CC. Here’s the point: Over and over again those of you who are devoted to the CC tell me and others that we are NOT under the correct authority therefore, at best, we only have part of the truth. My posts have been to show you why the CC, for me, could not be the authority I follow. That’s my reasoning for answering those of you who are trying to convert me. I enjoy the challenge to my beliefs. I love to check out with the Bible if I’m correct or incorrect (and I pray the Holy Spirit is the One directing me or I’d be self deluded.)

I can speak for myself; I am not trying to convert you. You are the one pointing out how Catholic teaching is wrong. I am simply defending the Church that Jesus established as the pillar and foundation of truth.

YOu need to rely on more than jut the idea that the Holy Spirit is guiding you. Throughout history, men have adhered to that and look where it has gotten us. God established His Church to guide us. The Church is guided by Jesus Himself. The Holy SPirit plays a large part but I find it very curious that He, the Holy Spirit, has lead many men throughout time into conflicting truths.

 

[Dokimas]

Paul gave two differing paths. One of those paths is superior to the other, celibacy. The Catholic Church chooses to adhere to the superior way, as defined by Paul.

Why do most protestants require their pastors to have a master degree or at least a bachelors degree? Is that a Biblical requirement? Why do some protestant churches require their pastors to have 2,3,4,5 or more years of preaching experience? Are these Biblical requirements?

YOu have chosen to argue a point that is hypocritical and you fail to acknowledge it. Why don’t you answer my questions?

You are correct the Bible does not require degrees; the Bible does tell us church leaders should study and not be novice. The NT does not require a church leader NOT to get an education.​

Maybe experience preaching is an answer to the NT teaching a church leader should not be a novice. However, does the NT forbid church leaders to have preaching experience?​

Does the Bible require church leaders to be celebate?

 

[Dokimas]

Hogwash! You argue whatever you choose but put restrictions on what and how we present our argument. You have not proven that celibacy is AGAINST Biblical teaching yet you continue to argue it.

BTW…Catholics are not restricted to scripture only so your premise is false.

I don’t have any power over what you choose to bring to the table to convince others that the CC has the right to require its leaders to be celebate when it is clear there is NO requirement in the NT (or OT, for that matter). I understand you highly reguard the teaching of the CC. I understand you fear questioning any of those teachings.

 

[Dokimas]

I can speak for myself; I am not trying to convert you. You are the one pointing out how Catholic teaching is wrong. I am simply defending the Church that Jesus established as the pillar and foundation of truth.

YOu need to rely on more than jut the idea that the Holy Spirit is guiding you. Throughout history, men have adhered to that and look where it has gotten us. God established His Church to guide us. The Church is guided by Jesus Himself. The Holy SPirit plays a large part but I find it very curious that He, the Holy Spirit, has lead many men throughout time into conflicting truths.

I would say that the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead against the Word of God, and that include the CC.

 

[izoid]

You are correct the Bible does not require degrees; the Bible does tell us church leaders should study and not be novice. The NT does not require a church leader NOT to get an education.​

Maybe experience preaching is an answer to the NT teaching a church leader should not be a novice. However, does the NT forbid church leaders to have preaching experience?​

Does the Bible require church leaders to be celebate?

Let’s use your logic even though I find it lacking.

Does the Bible require leaders to NOT be celibate.

If that is the best you can do I can understand why you want to discontinue this thread.

 

[izoid]

I would say that the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead against the Word of God, and that include the CC.

I agree 100%. So tell me why, many men, you and I included, claim to be Spirit lead but have different conclusions? Why do baptists disagree with Methodist, Pentecostals with non-denom’s, and so on and on and on, all claiming to be lead by the Spirit have these differences? Who is it that was tasked to preserve the truth?

 

[fbl9]

Dokimos your “favorite” verses do not ever state the the bishop must be a married man.Rather married but once key word is one,not a man who has been married several times or has more than one wife.

Just from personal experience i have yet to met a child of a pastor that would considered a good example of their father’s preaching.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Man! You guys (protestants) just rip snippets out of Scriptures at will.!!

Then there’s the suggestion that God only used Mary as a vessel, and then gave her over to Joseph as a normal wife. What does that mean? Is God a RAPIST of another man’s wife? Is He a pimp? Perhaps He just uses women who say ‘Yes!’ BLASPHEMOUS!!

MAAAAN! Stupidity was overtaken and left way back there in page 1!

I said I wouldn’t post for a few days - I’ve been reading through some threads and I gotta tell you that after reading the above statements - I stopped dead in my tracks - my stomach turned.

I am going to contact the moderator of this forum and ask to have my name removed. I do not want my good name or good intentions to be part of a forum or thread that tears people apart and would even slightly suggest that any Christian here would even slightly suggest or imply that any one of us thinks God is a rapist, pimp, or uses woman. Seriously, there are tears in my eyes at reading these words. You have gone too far. Stooped to a level that is below decency.

My God forgive me for being a part of this foolishness.

 

[fbl9]

St.Matthew 24:23 In these verses Christ tells us not to go after those that say :here is the Christ,or there He is…Just my opinion here
we have Dokimos and tweetymom , Lesli Polly saying they are lead directly by Jesus, personally, so in order for that to be; Christ must be there in front of them. So they come here saying no no Christ is over here and there,but we(the catholics) are saying to you all how can that be He has always and will be here.

 

[onenow1]

Have a Very Blessed and Joyful Christmass All.

 

[Dokimas]

Let’s use your logic even though I find it lacking.

Does the Bible require leaders to NOT be celibate.

If that is the best you can do I can understand why you want to discontinue this thread.

The Bible requires churches NOT to require celebacy.​

You must remember you are dealing with a mental migit when you deal with me, so maybe you are correct about why I was hoping the thread was ending.

 

[Dokimas]

St.Matthew 24:23 In these verses Christ tells us not to go after those that say :here is the Christ,or there He is…Just my opinion here
we have Dokimos and tweetymom , Lesli Polly saying they are lead directly by Jesus, personally, so in order for that to be; Christ must be there in front of them. So they come here saying no no Christ is over here and there,but we(the catholics) are saying to you all how can that be He has always and will be here.

It’s fun to be on the side that is demonized.​

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, **whom the Father will send **in My name, He will teach you all things, and **bring to your remembrance **all things **that I said **to you.

 

[Dokimas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokimas​

I would say that the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead against the Word of God, and that include the CC.

[SIGN]I agree 100%. So tell me why, many men, you and I included, claim to be Spirit lead but have different conclusions? Why do baptists disagree with Methodist, Pentecostals with non-denom’s, and so on and on and on, all claiming to be lead by the Spirit have these differences? Who is it that was tasked to preserve the truth? [/SIGN]​

Let me clarify: the areas/teachings/understandings that aren’t Biblical, and we all have those areas INCLUDING the CC, are areas not lead by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimos your “favorite” verses do not ever state the the bishop must be a married man.Rather married but once key word is one,not a man who has been married several times or has more than one wife.

Just from personal experience i have yet to met a child of a pastor that would considered a good example of their father’s preaching.

I never said the Bible says he MUST be a married man. The CC says they CANNOT be married which is obviously different than the teaching in the Bible.​

Maybe you haven’t meet too many, then. How about Billy Graham’s son Frank. Look how he turned out even after straying quite far from God. God is faithful.