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adamhovey1988
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Does she have any denominational links?
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Miguel25
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as a former protestant for many years and I got into seminary I never seen any protestant who dare to question if she is in heaven. I agree 100% with you.
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steve-b
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quick answer, No
Her son’s Church, the only one He established on Peter and those in union with him, is not a denomination.
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Spyridon
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She was ordained as a minister/“Evangelist” in the “Full Gospel church of God” in Taylor, Michigan in 1983.
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Luke6_37
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You could try a scientific argument & some logic. 1) By definition, a Christian is a person who believes in the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity. Anyone who belives Jesus is Michael the Archangel (Jehovah Witnesses) or the brother of Lucifer (Mormons) or just a prophet (Muslims) is NOT a Christian. 2) Incarnation means that Jesus was a man fully in the flesh. Paul emphasises this by saying he was " born of a woman". Mary is that woman. She is Jesus’s birth mother in every aspect of what it means to be a birth mother. 3) Get rid of the outdated and erroneous notion that a birth mother is a vessel. She is not. That is like saying the earth is flat & at the center of the solar system. In ancient times, it was believed that the father was the source of life (sperm = seeds) and women were vessels who provided nourishment. Hence the Creator God is called Father.
Not true folks! God is not male and Mary passed on her human life and her human DNA to her son Jesus OR SHE ISN’T REALLY HIS MOTHER. Jesus is a man made from a woman’s flesh. He is male Mary clone. The material used to form the New Adam had to be as pure as the clay of Eden used to create the first Adam. Hence the necessity of the Immaculate Conception.
Mothers also share living cells with their children and in turn receive living cells from them. These cells continue to live in her body for all her life. That is a scientific fact - Google it. 4) On the 8th day of Creation (Easter Sunday), the Creator God created a new form of humanity by raising Jesus from the dead and transforming ALL of his cells into those of a new type that is corporeal but is no longer subject to space & time. So what happened to Jesus’ cells that were still alive on Mary? They must also have been transformed. That is why at the moment of her death Mary was Assumed into heaven. That is why she can now appear all over the world as a young woman with a body. This is not by her own merits or grace, but by the Merits & Grace of her son.
There is a deep physical connection between Mary & Jesus that needs to be acknowledged and further explored theologically. The nice thing is that modern science offers a far better explanation of WHY Mary is unique among all of humanity. No doubt sexism & traditionalism have obscured the dogmatic pronouncements the Church has made on this topic, but they could NOT obscure what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us about Mary’s special status as the Mother of God.
Not true folks! God is not male and Mary passed on her human life and her human DNA to her son Jesus OR SHE ISN’T REALLY HIS MOTHER. Jesus is a man made from a woman’s flesh. He is male Mary clone. The material used to form the New Adam had to be as pure as the clay of Eden used to create the first Adam. Hence the necessity of the Immaculate Conception.
Mothers also share living cells with their children and in turn receive living cells from them. These cells continue to live in her body for all her life. That is a scientific fact - Google it. 4) On the 8th day of Creation (Easter Sunday), the Creator God created a new form of humanity by raising Jesus from the dead and transforming ALL of his cells into those of a new type that is corporeal but is no longer subject to space & time. So what happened to Jesus’ cells that were still alive on Mary? They must also have been transformed. That is why at the moment of her death Mary was Assumed into heaven. That is why she can now appear all over the world as a young woman with a body. This is not by her own merits or grace, but by the Merits & Grace of her son.
There is a deep physical connection between Mary & Jesus that needs to be acknowledged and further explored theologically. The nice thing is that modern science offers a far better explanation of WHY Mary is unique among all of humanity. No doubt sexism & traditionalism have obscured the dogmatic pronouncements the Church has made on this topic, but they could NOT obscure what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us about Mary’s special status as the Mother of God.
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stuartbrianhenlis
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HUH?! WHAT??? Jesus is a “Mary clone”??? That’s a new one on me, and I’m not a theologian!
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Luke6_37
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OK - Not quite a clone, because Jesus is male after all. However, it you only have one human parent then all your genes come from that parent. It doesn’t take a theologian to figure that out. My point is that if you take the doctrine of the Virgin birth seriously and consider it’s implications in light of modern science, it actually better illuminates all the Marian doctrines. Mary was made special in both body & soul by the grace of her son.
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stuartbrianhenlis
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Hi Luke,
I don’t know if one can correspond a religious dogma with science. Don’t you think that this is a matter of faith instead?
Stuart
I don’t know if one can correspond a religious dogma with science. Don’t you think that this is a matter of faith instead?
Stuart
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Luke6_37
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Hi Stuart,
Faith is wonderful, but science is too. Science is just reasoning with facts about the natural world. The world was created by God and therefore reveals something of God’s character. One of the best things about the RCC is that you never need to chose between faith and science. As Bishop Barron puts it, this the both/and of Catholicism.
“Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth- in a word, to know himself- so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves.”
― John Paul II, Fides et Ratio: On the Relationship Between Faith and Reason
Faith is wonderful, but science is too. Science is just reasoning with facts about the natural world. The world was created by God and therefore reveals something of God’s character. One of the best things about the RCC is that you never need to chose between faith and science. As Bishop Barron puts it, this the both/and of Catholicism.
“Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth- in a word, to know himself- so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves.”
― John Paul II, Fides et Ratio: On the Relationship Between Faith and Reason
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stuartbrianhenlis
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Hi Luke!
You’re right about this, Faith and Reason are compatible! If the Church had stated otherwise, I wouldn’t have converted to the Faith. I sit corrected!
You’re right about this, Faith and Reason are compatible! If the Church had stated otherwise, I wouldn’t have converted to the Faith. I sit corrected!
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De_Maria
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How about this? Mary is the Queen of Heaven
That sounds blasphemous to our Protestant brethren. They look at Scripture and see this verse:
Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
So, then, why do we call the Virgin Mary the Queen of Heaven, if God, according to Scripture, is angered by that title?
Because, its not that God is angered by the title. Its that God is angered by men usurping His right to assign who sits at His right or at His left. Remember what Jesus said to the Apostles?
Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
God had already reserved the title, Queen of Heaven, for the Virgin Mary from the beginning of time.
And it is revealed in the Sacred Scriptures.
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
That Woman is obviously, the Virgin Mary. If we go through the entire chapter, it is clear that the Woman is the Mother of the Messiah. The Messiah is Jesus Christ and His Mother is Mary. This is absolutely clear.
The vision fits Mary, the Woman, the Mother of Jesus Christ, perfectly.
The Woman is Mary
- The Woman of Rev 12 gave birth to the Messiah. Who can deny that?
- This man child is the Messiah. Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Who can deny that?
- Mary is the mother of Christ. Who can deny that?
Does that sound like an ordinary woman to you?
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Teek
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The people who challenge this are always stunned at how deeply Biblical it is. Sometimes they haven’t even heard those parts of the Bible. They look at you incredulously, and then look it up and their whole world shifts on them. It is remarkable how well they know the Bible, and yet how many passages their particular upbringing avoided, intentionally or no.
Remember you are on the side of truth. They have much more to answer to than you do.
How could she NOT be? She spent the most time with Jesus out of all other human beings. Have them explain how she could have known him so well, known love himself, and yet he wasn’t convincing enough to even lead her on the right path. It doesn’t make sense.
Remember you are on the side of truth. They have much more to answer to than you do.
How could she NOT be? She spent the most time with Jesus out of all other human beings. Have them explain how she could have known him so well, known love himself, and yet he wasn’t convincing enough to even lead her on the right path. It doesn’t make sense.
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I think you really need a source for this obnoxious claim. A link, where someone specifically claims the Blessed Virgin a harlot.
If you find one, I’ll join you in condemning them. If you can’t, I’d suggest a retraction of such a vile statement.
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Spyridon
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@JonNC
Apparently you havent spent too much time around hardcore Jack Chick type Protestants.
I’ll do you one better - here’s a Protestant who claims Mary was a literal prostitute.
Was the Virgin Mary really a prostitute? Author Chester Brown thinks so - NOW Magazine
I could find you dozens more examples if you need me to.
Apparently you havent spent too much time around hardcore Jack Chick type Protestants.
I’ll do you one better - here’s a Protestant who claims Mary was a literal prostitute.
Was the Virgin Mary really a prostitute? Author Chester Brown thinks so - NOW Magazine
I could find you dozens more examples if you need me to.
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Teek
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I have had that very same accusation made to me on four different occasions spanning 23 years. These people did not know one another. Twice they said she was more of a harlot than a queen. The other two said that she wasn’t special, God could have used anyone, and once she had done her part in conceiving and giving birth he discarded her (but they said this without using the word “harlot.”). One said that after that she was nothing but a wet nurse.
They did not have a source for that obnoxious claim, so I can’t give you one.
I can’t give you a link to the conversations I have had. Nevertheless, they happened. It is the truth.
Join us. It is a position that deserves to be condemned.
The people themselves—all four needed to hear what the Church teaches about Our Lady, and the more strongly they despised her for the lies they believed, the more deeply they fell in love with her in the truth when they let themselves see.
The people don’t need to be condemned. They need Truth.
But that depiction of Our Lady should most emphatically be condemned, not just because it is degrading to Our Lady. Even worse, it is a false accusation against Our Father in Heaven. God does not use even the lowliest of his people. He loves us all.
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Miguel25
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Bro im catholic but same catholic schoolars recognize that the woman in revelation fits betters with israel. Which is called a woman, and if u want i can reply in academical way but know i have stomachache bro
I looked for religious affiliation for Chester Brown. Here’s what I found:
Brown was brought up in a strictly Christian Baptist[1] household.[3] Over his career, he has gone back and forth between belief and non-belief in Christianity.[4][5]
en.m.wikipedia.org
But as I said, I join you in condemning an odious position such as his
Brown was brought up in a strictly Christian Baptist[1] household.[3] Over his career, he has gone back and forth between belief and non-belief in Christianity.[4][5]
Chester Brown's Gospel adaptations - Wikipedia
But as I said, I join you in condemning an odious position such as his
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OsculeturMeOsculo
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The mother of the king was also the queen of the kingdom. This can be seen with Basheba and Solomon.
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Spyridon
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@JonNC I don’t know if you quoted an older version of his wiki or if you just left off the full quote, but it says:
“Subsequently, Brown has shifted between belief and non-belief in Christianity, and currently identifies as a Christian.”
Currently identifies as a Christian - and he aint Catholic or Orthodox - meaning he’s Protestant.
As odious, obnoxious, blasphemous, and irksome to Catholic ears as his views are, believe it or not they’re not even the worst.
I have personally witnessed the most disgusting attacks upon Mary imaginable. There are many examples in history even up to modern times too of certain groups of Protestants desecrating holy Icons and statuary of the Blessed Virgin. Vile, blasphemous attacks aimed against Mary are not a new phenomena!
Granted, this is not stuff you’d ever hear from an Episcopal or Presbyterian pulpit (literally millions of high Church Anglicans and Lutherans actually venerate Mary quite a bit - not a few Anglicans and Lutherans even routinely pray the Rosary, one of the most thoroughly Marian devotions out there) and they are NOT representative of mainstream Protestant thought… but they do, unfortunately, exist out there in the huge spectrum that is Protestant Christianity.
“Subsequently, Brown has shifted between belief and non-belief in Christianity, and currently identifies as a Christian.”
Currently identifies as a Christian - and he aint Catholic or Orthodox - meaning he’s Protestant.
As odious, obnoxious, blasphemous, and irksome to Catholic ears as his views are, believe it or not they’re not even the worst.
I have personally witnessed the most disgusting attacks upon Mary imaginable. There are many examples in history even up to modern times too of certain groups of Protestants desecrating holy Icons and statuary of the Blessed Virgin. Vile, blasphemous attacks aimed against Mary are not a new phenomena!
Granted, this is not stuff you’d ever hear from an Episcopal or Presbyterian pulpit (literally millions of high Church Anglicans and Lutherans actually venerate Mary quite a bit - not a few Anglicans and Lutherans even routinely pray the Rosary, one of the most thoroughly Marian devotions out there) and they are NOT representative of mainstream Protestant thought… but they do, unfortunately, exist out there in the huge spectrum that is Protestant Christianity.
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And this is precisely why the term Protestant should not be used in this way.
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