Prove Transubtantiation and I will convert

[po18guy]

Gravity cant be seen, but it can be measured, explained, and recreated. Gravity isnt supernatural, its not magic.

Try to rotate a globe of any density you care to like, at any velocity you choose. Notice that objects on its surface tend to fly off on a tangent, not be drawn to it. This occurs no matter the effect of the larger earth’s gravitational pull, or the orientation of your globe. You should be able to re-create gravity, even on a micro level, right? Can this be done?

 

[paarsurrey]

.
I’m happy to accept the scribes who wrote the bible conjouring up such stories as warnings not to anger God. What religion ever succeded without a stick to go with the carrot? But in these days do we need to adhere to the letter of the bible instead of the spirit?
I have no doubt that Jesus may have said “This bread is me body”, but is there not just a slight chance he was really saying " Look, im dead soon, and i dont want to be forgotton, so evrytime you eat, think of me and spread the messages i’ve given…but hey, just to make things totally clear, 2000 years from now , dont be thinking something crazy like theres bits of my actual body mixed in with the bread or something similar

Hi

That is why I am of the opinion that it was only a superstition of the faithful . I agree that Jesus message should be spread to the corners of the world.

Thanks

 

[po18guy]

HBut specifically in this case, the OP was challenging the catholics here to prove Transub,

Such posts are made disingenuously, since this must be taken on faith, and is a spiritual matter. The originator of the challenge had, and has, absolutely no intention of converting. Such ideas are generated in a mind so clouded with misinformation that truth is obscured. It is a non-sequitur.

 

[po18guy]

This post was taken off another thread where it was off topic.

Further proof that some will reject even Christ, if he happens to be found in the Catholic Church. Lord, have mercy.

 

[pete_29]

Ronald.
I’m happy that you have found such peace and love in your faith, and indeed your right. Untill the heart is opened to beleif then a person cannot be persuaded.
It’s like looking at a table and someone trying to convince you its a chair. It is not my intention to try and convert you or anyone from your faith, because thats not going to happen.Nor would i want it to.

Im just facinated why, intelligent thinking educated people, often with degrees and doctorates can accept something like Transubstantiation that , in the face of cold hard reality, breaks down immediatly it is challenged.

I have no doubt that in 300 AD it was easy to swallow, if you’ll pardon the pun, but in those days the world was flat and witches were burned and Noah was thought to have really physically built a big boat.
I’m happy to accept the scribes who wrote the bible conjouring up such stories as warnings not to anger God. What religion ever succeded without a stick to go with the carrot? But in these days do we need to adhere to the letter of the bible instead of the spirit?
I have no doubt that Jesus may have said “This bread is me body”, but is there not just a slight chance he was really saying " Look, im dead soon, and i dont want to be forgotton, so evrytime you eat, think of me and spread the messages i’ve given…but hey, just to make things totally clear, 2000 years from now , dont be thinking something crazy like theres bits of my actual body mixed in with the bread or something similar

Then why didn’t he just say that?

 

[ncgolf]

Hi

That is why I am of the opinion that it was only a superstition of the faithful . I agree that Jesus message should be spread to the corners of the world.

Thanks

I have to disagree with you on the superstition. Superstition is magic … Christianity is not magic. Do you believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the power of a four leaf clover, your lucky number. No, I doubt it, because those are myth, legend or superstition. Adults can tell myth or tale from reality, even if that reality stretches what one may consider reasonable.

Dont speak out of both sides of your mouth … on the one Jesus is superstition and the other it is a good message. Wow, how nice of you to say to us … at least this superstitous person Jesus has something nice to say and at least the message is good. You make feel good all over.

So when you say superstition … that is one thing it is not. Ask any adult here and I can be almost 99.99 percent know the tooth fairy, Santa, Paul Bunyan, you name it are fables and once believable as kids is not as an adult.

 

[Ronald_E]

It is Friday morning and this is fun. There is very little time to discuss my faith and my love for it. All I know is I was not in any faith at 57 when this light told me I was loved and led me home. There was no way to measure the light put in my heart at that moment. I wish I could be in face to face discussions like this where I live. God Bless you. A thought came to me just now. For me to love my faith as much as I do now I had to be a really strong agnostic with an advanced degree in psychology in order to understand reason and lack of reason and its impact on belief. Well, everything fits now.

 

[Mickey]

Hi

That is why I am of the opinion that it was only a superstition of the faithful .

This is the third time you have posted that the Holy Eucharist is a superstition. The Holy Eucharist is the focus of the Catholic and Orthodox faith and your comments are gravely insulting. Perhaps you are ignorant to Apostolic Christian belief. I suggest you cease and desist your insults. You do not show respect. :nope:

 

[mangy_dog]

Christ died once on the cross in payment for the sin of the world. In the mass, when he is viewed literally in the wafer and the wine as being literally there…its like he is having to be sacrificed again and again. I will say this repeatedly…I am not a catholic basher…I have MANY dear and precious friends of that religious institution…but please…the mass is not Biblical…neither is transubstantiation. I know that in days past…you were damned basically if you did not believe that…according to the Canon laws, which states…If any one shall deny that the body and blood, together, with the sould and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ are truly, really and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy eucharist, and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, let him be accursed. I will state that I quoted this from a book by Jack Chick. Ok…I know…he is not popular among the Catholic institution…but he truly is trying to state Biblical truth.I know my post probably isnt popular…but please, I do not mean to be ugly or disrespectful…just sharing what I know.

Whether its Sola Scriptura or Chick publications…it’s incomplete.
If you are a “Sola Scriptura” christian - your belief is incomplete. Chick publications as zealously well intentioned as they may be…are incomplete.
The Eucharist is the un-bloody sacrifice we conmemorate each time the words of consecration are pronounced by the priest. Lest we forget that - we are the ones that crucified Him and continue to crucify Him every time we sin.
Protestants are in denial of the bloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross, preferring the empty cross to the crucifix. They don’t want to think of Christ being cricified again and again but, its ok to sin again and again…“and its ok, because *, automatically! no need for the sacrament of penance! ? Pleease!
Why did Jesus let so many disciples walk away without explanation when He told them that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood??? Why did He let them think that it was real? Why didn’t He run after them and tell 'em…” hey wait a minute guys, what I meant was a symbol of my flesh and blood".
If you don’t believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, then you are calling Jesus a liar and a deciever - favoring some disciple while rejecting others with false images.
My friend,…read that passage and meditate before you let the spirit of this world get the better of you.

Gospa Mir!!*

 

[Ronald_E]

Dear Mickey, I think it is very important for Paar to continue to freely express his beliefs. When I was told to shut up as a child I realized that nobody was interested in what I had to say but only in themselves. At that point I went into hiding and the hatred began to grow for self and others. I think we all want to know if we speak our truth no matter how foreign or disturbing it may be will you still love me.
Now to Paar and Tommi. What we see as matter in any form is actually the appearance of trapped light held together by gravity. That matter which we see operates on measureable principles. The molecules that compose what we see operate on principles which are different from those of the object we observe as matter. We are just beginning to understand that there is a contradiction between what we observe as matter and what composes that matter.

 

[mangy_dog]

It is Friday morning and this is fun. There is very little time to discuss my faith and my love for it. All I know is I was not in any faith at 57 when this light told me I was loved and led me home. There was no way to measure the light put in my heart at that moment. I wish I could be in face to face discussions like this where I live. God Bless you. A thought came to me just now. For me to love my faith as much as I do now I had to be a really strong agnostic with an advanced degree in psychology in order to understand reason and lack of reason and its impact on belief. Well, everything fits now.

I am happy for you and I thank God for revealling Himself to you.
I pray for His Blessing upon you, today and all the days of your life.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Ronald_E]

Another thought. When Jesus breathed on his apostles it was after His resurrection and He told them that all power is given to them in heaven and on earth. When He breathed on them with His risen body He gave them something unseen that changed them internally and gave them powers that they had not had before. Nothing about them changed in appearance but they were changed and were able to do what Jesus wanted them to do. Without His breath are they changed? Matter and energy will never disappear it only changes. We see observable changes in matter but we do not see what is beyond the senses. When I was an agnostic I read a lot of Krishnamurti’s work. He said when there is no division between the observer and the observed then you will know truth. He also asked if it was possible to have a new mind. He stated that nobody can give another person that answer because we would just believe or disbelieve based on our history of beliefs and our relationship to that particular person. My new mind came in a flash of light. Thank God!

 

[Mickey]

Dear Mickey, I think it is very important for Paar to continue to freely express his beliefs. When I was told to shut up as a child I realized that nobody was interested in what I had to say but only in themselves. At that point I went into hiding and the hatred began to grow for self and others. I think we all want to know if we speak our truth no matter how foreign or disturbing it may be will you still love me.

Dear Ronald,

Slava Isusu Christu!

He posted his opinion on superstition three times. He continually attacks the Holy Eucharist and I will defend my Lord.

Three times is enough.

I have seen people suspended for less.

 

[Ronald_E]

Dear Mickey, I hope I am not offensive. Our Lord never defended Himself. He has asked us to be a light to the world and to pray and love those who oppose us. I cannot be offended in my relationship with Jesus. The light of Christ is luminous and the bringer of light that is created by friction and causes heat is lucifer. When we defend Christ I experience friction in that defense. I pray that the light I express in luminous.

 

[peary]

John 6:66 That concludes the ‘proof’ according to Christ.

 

[Mickey]

Dear Mickey, I hope I am not offensive. Our Lord never defended Himself. He has asked us to be a light to the world and to pray and love those who oppose us. I cannot be offended in my relationship with Jesus. The light of Christ is luminous and the bringer of light that is created by friction and causes heat is lucifer. When we defend Christ I experience friction in that defense. I pray that the light I express in luminous.

I hear ya.

I will defend my Lord and Saviour.

It does not mean that I do not love my neighbor, or pray for them, or share the Gospel. Sometimes we are called to be a bit firm. Do you remember our Lord showing displeasure by turning over the tables of the money changers in the temple?

Of course none of us are perfect as Jesus Christ was perfect. We are fallen. And I am the worst of all sinners.

Peace.
Mickey

 

[mangy_dog]

John 6:66 That concludes the ‘proof’ according to Christ.

Yes!!
As a matter of fact, John 6: 1 thru 66 states it clearly and in full context.
These were good disciples that walked away. And not only that,…Jesus didn’t clarify anything to His apostles because there was no clarification to be made, He was talking about His flesh and blood - truly! Not a symbol!!

Gospa Mir.

 

[peary]

Yes!!
As a matter of fact, John 6: 1 thru 66 states it clearly and in full context.
These were good disciples that walked away. And not only that,…Jesus didn’t clarify anything to His apostles because there was no clarification to be made, He was talking about His flesh and blood - truly! Not a symbol!!

Gospa Mir.

 

[East_and_West]

Hi

In my opinion it is not a gift of grace, it is only a mark of superstition and superstition does not reflect one’s steadfastness on relgion but a weakness of that.

I respect your religion.

Thanks

You do not respect our religion if you believe that it is a superstious one. That being said, why is it superstion to believe the words of the Creator of the universe himself, who became incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ? You know what is superstisious? To believe the words of a religiously confused man named muhamed, who claimed to have visions that cannot be verified and basically adopted aspects of other religions to create a brand new one.

 

[East_and_West]

Hi

That is why I am of the opinion that it was only a superstition of the faithful . I agree that Jesus message should be spread to the corners of the world.

Thanks

Then why don’t you? Your prophet basically stole Jesus form our religion and recreated Jesus to be what mohamed wanted to Jesus to be. Not a very honest thing to do. To believe in such nonsense is extremely superstitious.