Purgatory: a place of torment or not?

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I’ve encounter both sayings, including from saints.

Example: “Purgatory is not a place of misery and unwanted torment; even though it is a place of suffering. Purgatory is a place of love, hope and peace. It was created by love—the love which God has for His beloved children. Purgatory was a necessity born out of love because only the purest of souls can enter Heaven; and if Purgatory did not exist, most souls would never be allowed in God’s Heaven of pure love.”

What’s the official description?
 
Try to go a whole day without sinning, or a week or a month. See if you feel tormented. I know I would.

We are made perfect in purgatory, and apparently there is more involved than just God snapping his fingers. Becoming perfect is HARD. Facing up to all the evil we have caused, truly knowing the consequences of it, is HARD.
 
That’s a quote from whom? Most of what I have read depicts Purgatory as a place of great suffering. That’s why we call it the Church Suffering! It seems to have fire. I would imagine there would be peace, though, too, because you know you are finally expiating those sins you couldn’t shed on earth.
 
According to Catholic Answers Tract about Purgatory,

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

In the section of Nothing Unclean,

Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean, but actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life. After all, if a guilty soul is merely “covered,” if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul. It is still unclean.

Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that “nothing unclean shall enter heaven.” From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if “covered,” remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven. It needs to be cleansed or “purged” of its remaining imperfections. The cleansing occurs in purgatory. Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which declares that God chose us “to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit.” Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement, as Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive “for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”

Justice demands retribution for wrongs so it can be inferred that, though Purgatory is not Hell, it is still a place where suffering can exist. If you look into St. Mary Faustina Kowalska’s diary, here’s an excerpt of from what she described about Purgatory:

I saw the Guardian Angel who ordered me to follow it. In one moment I found myself in a foggy place, invaded by fire and an enormous crowd of suffering souls. These souls prayed with great fervour, but without effectiveness for themselves: only we can help them. The flames burning them did not touch me.

My Guardian Angel did not leave me alone a single moment. And I asked those souls what their greatest torment was. Unanimously they answered me that their greatest torment is the burning desire of God. I saw Our Lady who was visiting the souls of the Purgatory. The souls call Mary “Star of the Sea”. She brings them refreshing.

I would have wanted to talk longer with them, but my Guardian Angel made me to go out. And we went out of the door of that prison of pain. I heard inside me a voice saying: “My Mercy does not want this, but justice does.” From that time I have had more tighten links with the suffering souls of the Purgatory.
 
Remember the nature of Private Revelation. It is not the same as Divine Revelation.

And such often uses images etc --and even the persons particular devotions and leanings and language, particular ways of expressing things in a place or time etc can in particular enter into such.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#III
 
  1. Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy. It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ[39]. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace. If it were merely grace, making all earthly things cease to matter, God would still owe us an answer to the question about justice—the crucial question that we ask of history and of God. If it were merely justice, in the end it could bring only fear to us all. The incarnation of God in Christ has so closely linked the two together—judgement and grace—that justice is firmly established: we all work out our salvation “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Nevertheless grace allows us all to hope, and to go trustfully to meet the Judge whom we know as our “advocate”, or parakletos (cf. 1 Jn 2:1).
~ Pope Benedict XVI Spe Salvi
 
The Martyrs, I understand, pass by Purgatory completely: they don’t experience it.

So, Justice seems to be the rule in Purgatory.
 
There is no “official” position on the matter of the “torment” of purgatory, although it is a pious opinion. The dogma is simply that Purgatory is an occasion of purification.

On p. 230 of Cardinal Ratzinger’s (now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) book Eschatology, he refers to the “permanent content of the doctrine of purgatory.” The permanent part, i.o.w. dogmatic, refers to the purification of the soul made capable of full union with God. I recommend that and the aforementioned Spe Salvi. :o
 
I’ve encounter both sayings, including from saints.

Example: “Purgatory is not a place of misery and unwanted torment; even though it is a place of suffering. Purgatory is a place of love, hope and peace. It was created by love—the love which God has for His beloved children. Purgatory was a necessity born out of love because only the purest of souls can enter Heaven; and if Purgatory did not exist, most souls would never be allowed in God’s Heaven of pure love.”

What’s the official description?
Whenever we undergo a spiritual cleansing (suffering) we, well, suffer. But, when united and in acceptance with God’s will, our suffering can also be a cause for great joy because we realize this suffering is bringing us closer to Him. Anything that is broken, God can make even better. Just like a surgeon has to cause pain in order to heal, God has to cause us pain in order for us to heal.
We experience this purging here on earth, and if our purging is “incomplete” when we die, we experience it in Purgatory. However, my assumption is that in Purgatory, our wills will be united with God’s, and so all suffering, while intense and greater than here on earth, will also be the cause of much joy. On earth, we tend to struggle and resist the purging, which can lead to more suffering and a lack of joy and peace.
 
That’s a quote from whom? Most of what I have read depicts Purgatory as a place of great suffering. That’s why we call it the Church Suffering! It seems to have fire. I would imagine there would be peace, though, too, because you know you are finally expiating those sins you couldn’t shed on earth.
Suffering because you know you can see God there, but not yet. But hell is much more than suffering because in hell, you know God exists and that you know you are supposed to be with Him, yet you decide that you will never ask God to have you. That is, the Church Suffering because people there are like the Repentant Thief (willing to suffer a bit more just to see God).
 
Purgatory is the perfect name- it is a place of introspection and reflection- of purging hate fear, negativity- … purification until Jesus takes them home
 
Suppose you fall down and scrape your knee. It hurts like the dickens. You look at your knee and see bits of dirt and gravel in it. Ouch! You need to clean it up so it’ll heal. So as carefully as you can, you gently scrub out the grit and gravel. It’s going to hurt, but you know it’s necessary so your knee can heal.

That’s my understanding of purgatory.
 
I think Paul explains it quite well.
For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus… Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:
Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire – 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
While the promise of salvation remains and the one going through purgatory is saved, the process doesn’t sound very pleasant at all.
 
Suppose you fall down and scrape your knee. It hurts like the dickens. You look at your knee and see bits of dirt and gravel in it. Ouch! You need to clean it up so it’ll heal. So as carefully as you can, you gently scrub out the grit and gravel. It’s going to hurt, but you know it’s necessary so your knee can heal.

That’s my understanding of purgatory.
Ok can anyone who responded to this thread please tell me where in the BIBLE that either God or Jesus mentions purgatory. Isn’t it true that this was made up from the minds of man?ALL sins are forgiven when you die. You do not go to another place to have your sins purged. That is ridiculous. That is what the Catholic Church teaches. Not the Bible. Once again,I ask for ANYONE to please show me a passage in the Bible that mentions the word purgatory, and then I may believe.
 
Ok can anyone who responded to this thread please tell me where in the BIBLE that either God or Jesus mentions purgatory. Isn’t it true that this was made up from the minds of man?ALL sins are forgiven when you die. You do not go to another place to have your sins purged. That is ridiculous. That is what the Catholic Church teaches. Not the Bible. Once again,I ask for ANYONE to please show me a passage in the Bible that mentions the word purgatory, and then I may believe.
Did you even read the thread?

The word “Purgation” means to “purify” if you didn’t know.
 
Ok can anyone who responded to this thread please tell me where in the BIBLE that either God or Jesus mentions purgatory. Isn’t it true that this was made up from the minds of man?ALL sins are forgiven when you die. You do not go to another place to have your sins purged. That is ridiculous. That is what the Catholic Church teaches. Not the Bible. Once again,I ask for ANYONE to please show me a passage in the Bible that mentions the word purgatory, and then I may believe.
Transport yourself back to the 1st century.

You ask Paul what happens when you die. And he tells you

1 Cor 3:12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- 13* each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15** If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.*

What questions about this would you have for Paul? Maybe you’d ask where is this and how long does it last?
  • It’s obviously after one dies but before heaven.
  • It’s not for one who will go to hell because that person is not saved they are damned
 
Ok but show me in the Bible where Jesus or God talks about purgatory
Already did in my previous post.

The following Church Father’s all agree that it is what Paul is talking about:

St. Ambrose (commentary on the text, and Sermo xx in Ps. cxvii),
St. Jerome, (Comm. in Amos, c. iv),
St. Augustine (Enarration on Psalm 37),
St. Gregory (Dial., IV, xxxix), and
Origen (Hom. vi in Exod.).

You can read more about where it comes from and what proofs are offered here:
newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

If that isn’t good enough for you, well, I don’t know what else to tell you.
 
That’s a quote from whom? Most of what I have read depicts Purgatory as a place of great suffering. That’s why we call it the Church Suffering! It seems to have fire. I would imagine there would be peace, though, too, because you know you are finally expiating those sins you couldn’t shed on earth.
Have to comment here. Are not all of your sins forgiven at death ? Did not God himself say the wages of sin are death
 
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