Sure you do
Exactlywhere then has the Church been justifying and redefining sexual immorality or any of the sins mentioned
I give information all properly referenced. Ergo the information and sources I give don’t come from me. The question is, why are you so persistent and dogged in opposing those sources that warn, and give consequences, ergo identify and fix blame for wrong doing.steve-b:
I have no doubt you will be without fail in completing your apostolate. You are persistent and dogged. There will be no chance to fix blame against you for failure to warn.
At the Vatican I guess. Are there not homosexual priests actively and openly advocating homosexuality from the pulpits? What about Catholic politicians who receive Communion even though they openly support abortion etc? Is my understanding that a divorced and remarried couple in Argentina can receive the Eucharist and continue to live as man and wife but the same couple living in New York would be denied? Can you explain AL?Wannano:
where then has the Church been justifying and redefining sexual immorality or any of the sins mentioned
I would be interested to learn where you heard these priests doing this.
What would make you think this was authorized from the Vatican?
What about them? Are you blaming the teaching of the Church because these individuals commit sacrilege? That is like saying something is wrong with Jesus’ teaching because Judas rejected it and betrayed Him!
I don’t see how this scenario, even if true, would relate to the Church’s teaching on sexual immorality. It seems like you are saying that, since certain persons are not following the teaching, something is wrong with the teaching?
What about them? Are you blaming the teaching of the Church because these individuals commit sacrilege? That is like saying something is wrong with Jesus’ teaching because Judas rejected it and betrayed Him!
a guess ≠ a reference. Do you have an actual reference?steve-b:
At the Vatican I guess.Wannano:
where then has the Church been justifying and redefining sexual immorality or any of the sins mentioned
Again if you have a reference I will report them myself
The Church doesn’t support or teach that abortion is okay. The consequence for a Catholic who participates in an abortion is automatic excommunication. It however doesn’t mean they can never be forgiven. If one is truly sorry, they can after the event, be forgiven in sacramental confession.
Again, do you have a specific reference?
Steve you ask for actual references. I will go to Lifesite News and look them up or you can do that as well. I gave an actual reference to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and you passed it off saying participating in an abortion is automatic excommunication. Did you really think my point in that was that he was having an abortion?Wannano:
a guess ≠ a reference. Do you have an actual reference?steve-b:
At the Vatican I guess.Wannano:
where then has the Church been justifying and redefining sexual immorality or any of the sins mentioned
Wannano:
Again if you have a reference I will report them myself
Wannano:
The Church doesn’t support or teach that abortion is okay. The consequence for a Catholic who participates in an abortion is automatic excommunication. It however doesn’t mean they can never be forgiven. If one is truly sorry, they can be forgiven in sacramental confession.
Wannano:
Again, do you have a specific reference?
Fr Martin doesn’t pretend to teach what the Church teaches. All ANYONE has to do is read the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church).Wannano:
I would be interested to learn where you heard these priests doing this.
What would make you think this was authorized by the Vatican?
Like I explained I have read about these incidents. Surely you have heard of a Father James Martin? If it isn’t approved by the Vatican why do they not excommunicate and remove any Bishops/Priests obviously involved in it?
I agree, he should be removed from active practice as a priest. It’s called being laicized.
Is he not also guilty of causing dissension/division?guanophore:
Fr Martin doesn’t pretend to teach what the Church teaches. All ANYONE has to do is read the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church).Wannano:
I would be interested to learn where you heard these priests doing this.
What would make you think this was authorized by the Vatican?
Like I explained I have read about these incidents. Surely you have heard of a Father James Martin? If it isn’t approved by the Vatican why do they not excommunicate and remove any Bishops/Priests obviously involved in it?
I agree, he should be removed from active practice as a priest. It’s called being laicized.
I was looking for your source because there is a lot of slander and defamation in the media.
Priests are subject to many levels of discipline by the Church. We are not privy to all the details, but some priests are removed from service, some are laicized. These incidents are investigated and measures taken, and often priests are sequestered during the process. What may seem “obvious” to us without all the information may not be an accurate representation of all the facts.
I can see your angst with this, and many of us share it with our US politicians. There is a process for this also, and the Priest/vicar/bishop meets with the parishioner to give correction before a formal and public excommunication. The fact is that we cannot know if any individual has been to confession and repented of their sins. If they have not, then they have excommunicated themselves by espousing sin and if they receive the eucharist will inherit grave spiritual consequences
@steve-b has not “passed off” anything! There is an automatic excommunication. It does not only apply to the person who has the abortion, but to those who do as he has done, participate, enable, coerce, or support this grievous sin.
I would stipulate that anyone who teaches error would be, but it is not the place of the laity to find him so. This issues are dealt with through Canon Law.
The Archbishop said he served the Prime Minister as a gesture of hope and to keep lines of communication open. The Archbishop also appears to be a politician.Wannano:
I was looking for your source because there is a lot of slander and defamation in the media.
Priests are subject to many levels of discipline by the Church. We are not privy to all the details, but some priests are removed from service, some are laicized. These incidents are investigated and measures taken, and often priests are sequestered during the process. What may seem “obvious” to us without all the information may not be an accurate representation of all the facts.
Some clergy who have been reprimanded continue their behavior, and are separated from their community or their lawful oversight. In this case the Church produces a statement to protect the faithful from being led astray.
I can see your angst with this, and many of us share it with our US politicians. There is a process for this also, and the Priest/vicar/bishop meets with the parishioner to give correction before a formal and public excommunication. The fact is that we cannot know if any individual has been to confession and repented of their sins. If they have not, then they have excommunicated themselves by espousing sin and if they receive the eucharist will inherit grave spiritual consequences
"1 Corinthians 11:27 [ Partaking of the Supper Unworthily ] “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.”
That kind of backs up my initial comment.Wannano:
@steve-b has not “passed off” anything! There is an automatic excommunication. It does not only apply to the person who has the abortion, but to those who do as he has done, participate, enable, coerce, or support this grievous sin.
I would stipulate that anyone who teaches error would be, but it is not the place of the laity to find him so. This issues are dealt with through Canon Law.
