Purgatory, the final santification process from your sins...or your sinful nature?

[Samuel2]

I personally believe that purgatory is the process of removing your sinful nature in order to enter heaven, not sins. Our sins have been taken away by the sacrifice of Christ of course but there is still our Sinful nature that we need to take care of. Now some might say that its the same thing but no, if we say that God forgives my sins right now, i will still sin later because its in my nature. After our sinful nature is gone than we will be able to spend eternity with God sinless.When you think about it makes sense why works are also necessary. The much you sin on earth the harder will be for you to get rid of your sinful nature in purgatory. Thats why you will also feel pain and discomfort in there. In the other hand the more you do good works the more you will surpress your sinful nature and easier will it be to get rid of it in Purgatory.

What do you think ? I’d appriciate your opinion. Thanks.

 

[Gorgias]

Our sins have been taken away by the sacrifice of Christ of course

That sounds like a Protestant approach to the question of justification/sanctification/salvation. That’s not precisely the way that the Catholic Church would address the situation. Christ’s sacrifice doesn’t, on its own, absolve post-baptismal sin!

In the other hand the more you do good works the more you will surpress your sinful nature and easier will it be to get rid of it in Purgatory.

Yes…and no. Good works done while in a state of mortal sin are not “works of supernatural merit.”

Moreover, our wounded nature is not reversed by our works or our merits. We do establish habits – virtues! – whose merits are imputed to us by Christ. These work toward satisfaction for sin, though.

 

[JerryZ]

Sins are forgiven when one goes to confession.
Purgatory is for finish picking up all the windows glass we broke throughout our lives that we could not pick up while we were alive.
Hope this helps.
Peace!

 

[porthos11]

I personally believe that purgatory is the process of removing your sinful nature in order to enter heaven, not sins. Our sins have been taken away by the sacrifice of Christ of course but there is still our Sinful nature that we need to take care of. Now some might say that its the same thing but no, if we say that God forgives my sins right now, i will still sin later because its in my nature. After our sinful nature is gone than we will be able to spend eternity with God sinless.When you think about it makes sense why works are also necessary. The much you sin on earth the harder will be for you to get rid of your sinful nature in purgatory. Thats why you will also feel pain and discomfort in there. In the other hand the more you do good works the more you will surpress your sinful nature and easier will it be to get rid of it in Purgatory.

What do you think ? I’d appriciate your opinion. Thanks.

It’s actually both. Purgatory is there to purify you of any unrepented venial sin, any remaining undue attachment to creatures, and any remaining temporal punishment still due to sin already remitted.

 

[Dan_Defender]

I think it’s both. Because to share in divine life we must be totally purified.

 

[Christianapologist]

If Christ died for ALL sins, 1 John 1:7-9; and we are now “reconciled to Christ”, Romans 5:9-11; through faith in Jesus Christ, Romans 5:1-5; we are “sanctified” and have “eternal life”, Romans 6:22 … where did Purgatory come from …???

 

[po18guy]

I believe that the correct answer is: Yes. Both.

 

[JerryZ]

Since you like St. Paul then read 1st Corinthians, there you will find the “process” for Purgatory. Not the name, just the process. The name came later, similar to “The Trinity” for example.
Peace!

 

[Christianapologist]

Thanks Jerry… which passage in 1st Corinthians…?

 

[fhansen]

What do you think ? I’d appriciate your opinion. Thanks.

It’s a matter of the will. We don’t really have a “sinful nature”; that’s more of a Protestant idea. We have a will which is not entirely oriented and committed to God, an orientation that happens to be our ultimate good. Adam questioned whether or not God was worth heeding, whether or not God really was God IOW, higher than himself, to put it simply. Whether or not Adam might not be able to fill God’s shoes by himself. We’re here to learn that Adam was wrong. We’re here to gain the “knowledge of God” which Jesus came to reveal when the time was ripe, to reveal in no uncertain terms, as God had never been revealed before. Man is made for communion with God and is lost, dead, unable to rise, unable to overcome sin without Him.
"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5.

Separation from God is the heart of man’s problems, which explains why that very separation is the chief aspect of the state known as “original sin”. With the help of lived-experience in this relatively god-free world where both good and evil are literally known, combined with revelation and grace, we may come to see our need for God, and be able to recognize God in Jesus-in His words and deeds, and so of God’s existence, trustworthiness, mercy, goodness, and extraordinary love for humankind. Then our wills begin to change. Then we can be ready to receive the light, to be reconciled with God and enter communion with Him as is the right order of things for man; we can be justified, IOW.
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

From the catechism:
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil , and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

The purpose of purgatory is the final education and formation of the will, as we’re purified of anything that might distract it from it’s ultimate good, which is God. Then we’re free to fully love Him as we should, with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength.

 

[Gab123]

Here is someone who experienced purgatory:

 

[JerryZ]

I Corinthians
3:9 For we are God’s assistants. You are God’s cultivation; you are God’s construction.
3:10 According to the grace of God, which has been given to me, I have laid the foundation like a wise architect. But another builds upon it. So then, let each one be careful how he builds upon it.
3:11 For no one is able to lay any other foundation, in place of that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus.
3:12 But if anyone builds upon this foundation, whether gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or stubble,
3:13 each one’s work shall be made manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it will be revealed by fire. And this fire will test each one’s work, as to what kind it is.
3:14 If anyone’s work, which he has built upon it, remains, then he will receive a reward.
3:15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer its loss, but he himself will still be saved, but only as through fire.
Build upon the foundation would be what have we done with the Grace GOD has given us. Gold and precious stones would be our works of mercy, prayers, hay and stubble are us not taking advantage of the opportunities GOD offered us to evangelize, wasted time, not building the kingdom.
The “day of the Lord” is our death and judgement.
Peace!

 

[ioannes_pius]

It’s the purgation of either a) any unforgiven venial sins after death, or b) any remaining temporal punishment due to sin after death, or c) both.

 

[TK421]

The traditional teaching is that Purgatory is a temporary state of pain because of committed sins that we’ve repented of.

I think it’s poorly supported to say that the removal of our sinful nature is what is painful because the sinful nature is in itself what brings the human race misery. Also, there’s good reason and hope to believe that Purgatory is entirely avoidable. If Purgatory was the removal of the sinful nature, then everybody with Original Sin would go to Purgatory before Heaven.

 

[Christianapologist]

Thanks, but unfortunately there’s still no evidence of a purgatory, if you look deeper into Paul’s context of 3:15. So, I’m wondering how you made that connection… especially with the contradicting scriptures in Romans? We know Scripture cannot contradict itself…

 

[fhansen]

We also know that not everything Jesus said and did was recorded in Scripture, and that there were oral teachings and traditions that were received as well. The Church received and proclaimed the gospel before a word of the New Testament was written, and Scripture was never intended to serve as some sort of clearly stated and exhaustive catechism. Which is why there’s often much disagreement on Scripture between sincere, intelligent, educated and well-meaning folk.

 

[Christianapologist]

Thanks, and good thoughts… I’m wondering if there was an oral teaching or tradition that led to the doctrine of Purgatory…? And I’m curious why you think Scripture wasn’t intended to be a clearly stated and exhaustive catechism, given Psalm 119:130… &… 2 Tim 3:15-17… & 1 Cor 15:1-3, where God tells us that through scripture we are saved…?

 

[esieffe]

The nitty gritty, as I understand it from the Saints, purgatory purges us of the “STAIN of sin,” and any venial sins we might have accumulated between our last sacrament and death. I am guessing that the stain of sin consists of embedded desires we carry for some habitual sinning from our forgiven past.

 

[po18guy]

Wait right there!

Q: Where did your ideas come from? Which apostles taught them?

A: None of them. Zero.

Take a moment and read Saint Paul elsewhere. Try 2 Corinthians 5 for example. There he states that he (“We”) had a ministry of reconciliation. Not to pagans, but to baptized Christians! Not only that, but it was as if God was appealing through him for Christians to be reconciled to God.

It gets worse: In 2 Corinthians 2:10, Saint Paul forgave sins in the person of Christ. In the person of Christ and with the authority of Christ. The power over sin given to the Apostles is absolutely indisputable. Could they red minds and forgive sins that no one confessed? Where is that in the bible?

I am also sorry that your bible is incomplete. One of its legs was cut off for the sake of convenient European doctrine. The 1.5 billion Catholics and Orthodox Christians have always had the books of the Maccabees. Go online and read 2 Maccabees 12:45 and following. You will see that Judaic practice was to offer sacrifice for the dead, so that they might be loosed from their sins.

It gets even worse: Read Revelation 21:27. Nothing impure will ever enter the Kingdom of God. Are you declaring yourself to be 100% pure and free any and all human imperfection?

I suspect that you are on a mission to teach “true Christianity” to the 1.5 billion Catholics and Orthodox who have been stumbling in darkness for 2,000 years. How can you teach true Christianity if you have never been taught true Christianity?

You are well advised to go back before the European rebellion in the 1500s and trace the Church back to its roots. You will find neither bible alone, nor saved by faith alone, nor once saved always saved.

Matter of fact, you will find no ‘bible’. No NIV, no KJV, no NASB, no nothing.

What you will find is Apostolic teaching and it bears almost no resemblance to what passes for “Christianity” today.

 

[Christianapologist]

Thanks, and I’ll try to get to most of your thoughts.

To start, where in your reply did you show that God intended a purgatory…?

Regarding your 2 Cor 2:10 thought: Paul tells us that we are “reconciled” to Christ by His blood Romans 5:9-11, Col 1:22… “without blemish”…!!

Regarding the books of Maccabees, they were not considered Canon rule because of the many contradictions and invented stories. You may want to look at why the Hebrews did not include the Apocrypha in their Canon. Jerome, a early church Catholic scholar, who translated the bible into the Latin Vulgate, refused to include the Maccabees along with the Apocrypha for the reasons given earlier. Direct quote from Jerome: "*As then the church reads
Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees, but does not admit them among the
canonical Scriptures, so let it read these two volumes for the edification of
the people, not to give authority to doctrines of the church.” *

Regarding your Rev 21:27 thought… I actually don’t need an opinion on this… “God said”: All my sins are paid in FULL, but faith of what Jesus did for me on the cross, 1 John 1:7. The payment was in Full, Romans 3:25. The word “propitiation” Greek version: hilasterion means full covering of our sins.

Regarding your thoughts on “teaching Christianity”… I only asked a question: "Where does God explain the Catholic Purgatory…?

Regarding your comment: “You will find neither bible alone, nor saved by faith alone, nor once saved always saved”. Well… Romans 1:16: “The Gospel is the power of salvation”; Luke 7:50: “Your faith has saved you”… Romans 10:9-10 “Once you believe, you will be saved”…

Not sure what you meant by your last two thoughts…

Hoping this helped… Still looking for God’s explanation on Purgatory…