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Mike
Guest
I just wanted to know the view of purgatory you believe in…
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thisismyusrname
Guest
What exactly do you mean by “what view”?
As a Catholic, I believe it exists as a state of purification after death for what imperfections remain which were not purified in life. What beyond that do you mean?
As a Catholic, I believe it exists as a state of purification after death for what imperfections remain which were not purified in life. What beyond that do you mean?
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thisismyusrname
Guest
Ah…this is a pole…I didn’t see that option before…
nnnnnevermind
nnnnnevermind
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Melchior
Guest
How does “time” work in Purgatory? Since the after life seems to be out side of time. Just curious.
Mel
Mel
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Dandelion_Wine
Guest
I voted ‘other’ because while I believe you could call Purgatory a “place”, I don’t know that it has real fire. I tend to call it a “state”.
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Tirian
Guest
I wondered that, too. Still, if there is suffering in purgatory, it seems to me that there must be some sense of duration. We’ve all had the experience of a sharp twinge of pain that was intense, but of such short duration that we hadn’t time really to suffer. On the other hand, pain of lesser intensity but of protracted duration can amount to real suffering.
But we’re plumbing the depths of mystery here. It’s OK to speculate, but in the end we live with what we know: it’s for our good, it involves some degree of suffering, and it’s a gift of a merciful God.
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Poisson
Guest
I chose instantaneous because I don’t think there is such a thing as “time” in purgatory. Time is of the physical world.
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Tom
Guest
You’re given a watch that runs REALLY slowly, like one second is equal to 1,000 years, that’s in Scripture somewhere… Just joking of course.
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system
Guest
Hmm…I’ve got a little problem with terms here.
My confessor tells me that purgatory *is in *heaven - it’s not some in-between place. There aren’t three ‘places,’ heaven, purgatory and hell.
Also, of course, there’s no time there.
And no ‘there’ there, as we think of ‘there.’ Spiritual things don’t have ‘edges,’ they don’t take up space.
I have often thought about how various saints felt a sort of ‘burning’ in their hearts when they had a profound experience of God, and I think that the ‘burning’ or ‘flames’ of purgatory might be something like that. I’ve had something like that - nothing like some great saint, no doubt - just this ‘burning’ feeling of passionate love for and longing for God.
I suppose that purgatory is like this: We have been judged and found ‘worthy’ (so to speak) of entering heaven, but there are still the ‘stains’ of sins on our soul. Those ‘sins’ are what separate us from God, we’re not perfectly pure enough yet (our souls aren’t) to be in the presence of such perfect purity and holiness as God is. We’re sort of ‘in the vestibule’ of heaven. We can ‘see’ God afar off, sort of, we know that He is there, we long to be in His presence with no barriers, we are passionately ‘on fire’ with His love for us…but there’s that ‘dirt’ on our souls, that ‘stain’ of sin that holds us back, somehow from being able to come into His presence.
I think that purgatory is a state of knowing the perfect holiness of God…and at the same time, looking at oneself and seeing the difference between one’s imperfect ‘unholiness’ and God’s perfect holiness. This awareness makes you ‘on fire’ with love for God and a longing for Him, while also ‘painfully’ aware that because of your own choices, you aren’t pure and holy - ‘clean’ - enough to be in His presence.
I think that people ‘suffer’ in purgatory because of the awareness of their distance from God and their acute longing to be wholly in His presence. I think that the souls in purgatory ‘hurt good’ in the sense that they know that this pain, this longing, this fire of passionate love/longing for God is something that purges them and purifies them and brings them closer to God.
I don’t think that purgatory is a fearful place at all. It’s not the bliss of heaven, its the longing for the bliss of heaven because we know what that bliss is that awaits us, far better than we ever know it in this life.
Maybe, in this life, we are always sort of ‘tending’ toward sin, there’s always a little part of us that ‘likes’ sin. And in purgatory, we are purged of that part that ‘likes’ sin, because we see sin for what it really is - and God for Who He really is. We are happy to be having that natural tendency to sin purged away, even while the purging, the passionate longing for perfect purity, ‘burns’ our souls.
Well, you asked.
My confessor tells me that purgatory *is in *heaven - it’s not some in-between place. There aren’t three ‘places,’ heaven, purgatory and hell.
Also, of course, there’s no time there.
And no ‘there’ there, as we think of ‘there.’ Spiritual things don’t have ‘edges,’ they don’t take up space.
I have often thought about how various saints felt a sort of ‘burning’ in their hearts when they had a profound experience of God, and I think that the ‘burning’ or ‘flames’ of purgatory might be something like that. I’ve had something like that - nothing like some great saint, no doubt - just this ‘burning’ feeling of passionate love for and longing for God.
I suppose that purgatory is like this: We have been judged and found ‘worthy’ (so to speak) of entering heaven, but there are still the ‘stains’ of sins on our soul. Those ‘sins’ are what separate us from God, we’re not perfectly pure enough yet (our souls aren’t) to be in the presence of such perfect purity and holiness as God is. We’re sort of ‘in the vestibule’ of heaven. We can ‘see’ God afar off, sort of, we know that He is there, we long to be in His presence with no barriers, we are passionately ‘on fire’ with His love for us…but there’s that ‘dirt’ on our souls, that ‘stain’ of sin that holds us back, somehow from being able to come into His presence.
I think that purgatory is a state of knowing the perfect holiness of God…and at the same time, looking at oneself and seeing the difference between one’s imperfect ‘unholiness’ and God’s perfect holiness. This awareness makes you ‘on fire’ with love for God and a longing for Him, while also ‘painfully’ aware that because of your own choices, you aren’t pure and holy - ‘clean’ - enough to be in His presence.
I think that people ‘suffer’ in purgatory because of the awareness of their distance from God and their acute longing to be wholly in His presence. I think that the souls in purgatory ‘hurt good’ in the sense that they know that this pain, this longing, this fire of passionate love/longing for God is something that purges them and purifies them and brings them closer to God.
I don’t think that purgatory is a fearful place at all. It’s not the bliss of heaven, its the longing for the bliss of heaven because we know what that bliss is that awaits us, far better than we ever know it in this life.
Maybe, in this life, we are always sort of ‘tending’ toward sin, there’s always a little part of us that ‘likes’ sin. And in purgatory, we are purged of that part that ‘likes’ sin, because we see sin for what it really is - and God for Who He really is. We are happy to be having that natural tendency to sin purged away, even while the purging, the passionate longing for perfect purity, ‘burns’ our souls.
Well, you asked.
D
Dr.Colossus
Guest
What perfect timing for this thread! I had an experience yesterday that I have felt the need to write about. I feel like I’ve experienced what purgatory is like.
Yesterday, I was corresponding via email with a very good friend. I was very worried about something having to do with them. I won’t go into what – it’s not important. Suffice to say that while waiting for a response from this friend, I was so worried that I was basically doubled over from a mixture of fear and concern so stong it was physically painful. In the midst of this, I was praying, and I thought to myself…“this must be what purgatory is like. I still have recourse to God, yet I am suffering”. Then I heard a voice in my head that said “Don’t be afraid! You know what comes after Purgatory, right? My hand is upon you. Don’t give up hope!”.
I knew at that moment that everything would be ok. I was still worried somewhat, but I was now simply waiting for a confirmation of something I already knew in my heart. Sure enough, I received that confirmation from my friend in the next email. Glory to God!
Yesterday, I was corresponding via email with a very good friend. I was very worried about something having to do with them. I won’t go into what – it’s not important. Suffice to say that while waiting for a response from this friend, I was so worried that I was basically doubled over from a mixture of fear and concern so stong it was physically painful. In the midst of this, I was praying, and I thought to myself…“this must be what purgatory is like. I still have recourse to God, yet I am suffering”. Then I heard a voice in my head that said “Don’t be afraid! You know what comes after Purgatory, right? My hand is upon you. Don’t give up hope!”.
I knew at that moment that everything would be ok. I was still worried somewhat, but I was now simply waiting for a confirmation of something I already knew in my heart. Sure enough, I received that confirmation from my friend in the next email. Glory to God!
J
Jason_Hurd
Guest
Nel, when your confessor says that purgatory is “in heaven”, perhaps he’s referring to the fact that souls in purgatory are saved already, and just enduring their final purification necessary before they may experience the Beatific Vision. I tend to believe it is a real place with fire and a sense of duration, but more because of the testimony of the souls there than anything else; I could very well be(and sincerely hope I am)wrong.
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EENS
Guest
Anything other than the first choice is not Catholic. Throughout history Purgatory has been taught to have the same fires as does hell. God bless.
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T.A.Stobie_SFO
Guest
Simply put, Purgatory is where you cleanse yourself of all remaining imperfections prior to entering Heaven.
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system
Guest
Jason Hurd:
JELane
I have to agree with you here. I think it’s a real place with real fire, but I must admit that I perked up a bit when I saw how much in the minority I am (at this point) and maybe it’s not as bad as I anticipate???
JELane
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
That’s not entirely true. Choice #2 is equally acceptable. From the CCC:
**
**Notice that where it says “the tradition of the Church”, tradition is not capitalized. Hence the “cleansing fire” is not necessarily real, and most certainly not, as you say, “the same fires as…Hell”. The reference above clearly states that purgatory is “entirely different from the punishment of the damned.”
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system
Guest
Jason Hurd:
Could you give some titles of books that give testimonies of souls that you mention? I had a great little book - red, smaller than my hand, Sophia Institute Press, I think - in which a saint (?) wrote about visions or visit to purgatory. It was a wonderful little book… But I gave it away to a friend who was in a state of crisis when both her father and dear aunt died one after the other. She needed to have a sense of where they were, what was happening to them…
Alas, I’ve lost contact with that friend and can’t borrow the book back!
But this is a very interesting thread (as you may have guessed, I’ve thought a little about purgatory and asked my confessor about it). Do you have any recommended reading?
Jason, yes, I think that’s what he meant. It was because I had a sense that there are three ‘places’ you could go. I may have even thought that purgatory was sort of like a mini-hell, with the same spiritual ‘ambience’ so to speak, as hell.
Could you give some titles of books that give testimonies of souls that you mention? I had a great little book - red, smaller than my hand, Sophia Institute Press, I think - in which a saint (?) wrote about visions or visit to purgatory. It was a wonderful little book… But I gave it away to a friend who was in a state of crisis when both her father and dear aunt died one after the other. She needed to have a sense of where they were, what was happening to them…
Alas, I’ve lost contact with that friend and can’t borrow the book back!
But this is a very interesting thread (as you may have guessed, I’ve thought a little about purgatory and asked my confessor about it). Do you have any recommended reading?
D
Dr.Colossus
Guest
T.A.Stobie:
Wait a minute…I didn’t think the Church taught that it is actually we who do the cleansing, but God.
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T.A.Stobie_SFO
Guest
We have to want to be cleansed so God can do it.
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
Ok, thanks for the clarification
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mizcebe
Guest
Nel,
I just finished a little book on the subject: “The Amazing Secret of the Souls in Purgatory: An Interview with Maria Simma” It was written by Sister Emmanuel of Medjugorje. I don’t have enough knowlege of the subject to know if it is a good/correct book. It can be purchased at several places online including www.stfrancisonline.com and Amazon.
I hope this helps.
I just finished a little book on the subject: “The Amazing Secret of the Souls in Purgatory: An Interview with Maria Simma” It was written by Sister Emmanuel of Medjugorje. I don’t have enough knowlege of the subject to know if it is a good/correct book. It can be purchased at several places online including www.stfrancisonline.com and Amazon.
I hope this helps.
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