Purgatory view

[DianJo]

Angainor:

Could someone, once in Purgatory, go either way? I’m not sure. It could be, that when someone dies with something good in their being that God can work with, God will eventually be able to grow that into something worthy of heaven. And if someone dies completely lost, then there would be nothing God could do.

Then again, someone might still have the freewill to rebel and reject God, even in Purgatory.

That is not something I think would be productive to dwell on. I will just pray that I will always trust in God, in this world and the next.

Purgatory IS IN HEAVEN! It’s not a “third place”. There is either heaven or hell. As someone said before, purgatory is sort of the “vestabule” of heaven, the lobby, so to speak. You just need to “wash up” and "change your clothes (white robes!) before you enter.

Once you’re in purgatory, you can’t go to hell because you are in heaven. God doesn’t transform anyone in heaven as you questioned above. That, if there’s something good for God work with, that person will grow into something worthy of heaven - NO!
All of the work is done. If you’re going to hell, then you’re gone! If you are in purgatory - YOU ARE IN HEAVEN! Heaven or Hell - that’s it!

 

[DianJo]

RNRobert:

St. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 that our works will be tested with fire.

As Scott Hahn writes in Rome Sweet Home, “There’s the fire of hell, but then there’s and infinitely hotter fire in heaven; it’s God himself.” As Scripture confirms: Our God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29; see also Deuteronomy 4:24).

St Peter tells us to endure our trials “so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7).

I think this explains Purgatory the best: as a refiner’s fire that burns off all the dross of sin and self-love so that our souls are pure. Of course, the better we endure our trials and strive for holiness while alive, the less purgation we will have to undergo before entering heaven.

The paragraph I highlighted above - THAT’S IT - THAT’S PURGATORY. The refiner’s fire that burns off the impurities that are left so our souls are perfectly pure! This is the best explanation of purgatory!

 

[wcknight]

I said other, I think it is a place as in location, but in a spiritual sense not physical. I also think the suffering is on a spiritual level, it may be similar to physical burning but who knows.

I’m hoping my stay will be short, I doubt I get off completely. IF I can do my suffering here on earth that would be great. BUT on the other side, I’m a real coward when to comes to pain. Hang nails and blisters are bad enough

I’d like to make the first Fridays and First Saturdays to mass and for devotions. I’ve heard that those who do so (for hwoever many months -9 or 10) are promised to get into Heaven on the first Saturday after they die. A week of pain, I think maybe I can handle that, especially if I die on a Friday night, then it’s only a few hours…

My big problem is that I usually forget by the time the first Friday or Saturday rolls around.

I think IF you make it into Purgatory, you are assured of Heaven. IF you’re going below you will know early enough. I doubt God plays games with those who are condemned.

wc

 

[Fashina86]

I don’t know if it is a place or a state, but I do know that your soul stays there to be purified of all temporal punishment before entering Heaven!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura

 

[huskerfan]

I do believe in purgatory but I voted other because my concept of it wasn’t part of the options. I asked our parish priest once about someone who had suffered a great deal in his lifetime…did he go straight to heaven or spend time in purgatory. He told me that purgatory wasn’t a bad place but that they were in a place without God and that was what was hard. The longing to be with Him.

 

[Zooey]

I voted “other”. As a Methodist, I might be expected to vote that there is no such thing, but I am not so sure that that would reflect John Wesley’s insightful analysis of the process of sanctification.
Wesley believed that we must all be entirely sanctified in order to enter Heaven. To that end, he encouraged holy living & a life of prayer. He also preached what he called a “2nd act of grace” which removed the desire to sin, enabling growth in holiness.(I am giving the short version!)
Whether such a thing exists is cause for much discusssion in Wesleyan circles. I don’t think purgatory comes up much…but there is this: If you must be “sanctified wholly” to enter Heaven, & if you do not have some experience as Wesley believed necessary, what are you left with? Something very like purgatory in effect,though not,I think in description.
I maintain what I would call a polite agnosticism toward the subject (hence, “other”), but I remain open to the possibility that if Wesley was right, that something must exist/happen at/after death to fit us for Heaven. I don’t think that time is a Biblically sound idea of this experience/process, nor would I call it a place.
But what do I know? I’m still here, on this side, peering into the mystery. One day, I will “know as * am known”.*

 

[Fox]

I see it as, when you die you go to your Judgement and you see God and all His glory. Well He might say you have done good but, you still have some taint on your soul from sin so you must be purified. Now the agony or discomfort you feel is that you’ve seen God but you have to leave His Presence for a bit (don’t know how long). But its only a temporary anguish, not permanent like hell.

 

[RobbyS]

Melchior:

How does “time” work in Purgatory? Since the after life seems to be out side of time. Just curious.

Mel

I have read that such things as" 7 years indulgence" refers to the ancient Church’;s penitential system, where a penitant had to endure that length of time before formally being reconciled to the Church. But then maybe “time” in Purgatory means a feeling of suspense or of separation from God.

 

[JackmanUSC]

I go by the Catechism and the Bible. Cleansing “Fire”

 

[bluezone7]

I don’t exactly know but it is a place where we are purified before dwelling fully in the house of the lord forever.

 

[JackmanUSC]

Purgatory, part II

Does God’s Word teach about purgatory? There is no mention of purgatory in the 66 books of the Bible, and since the orthodox biblical view of forgiveness assures redeemed sinners that their sins have all been paid in Christ, the doctrine of purgatory is rejected by Protestants as an erroneous addition to the Bible. Furthermore, we believe that it has been created by the church out of virtual necessity, as its view of the inadequacy of Christ’s death demands such a doctrine.

This doctrine simply fits with Catholicism’s whole system of justification by faith plus works – a keystone of Catholic theology. There is no possible way to reconcile Catholic teaching with Protestant teaching or the Bible on this point. Purgatory is part of a false gospel.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

My husband was telling me of a relative that objects to Catholics belief of Purgatory. It started me thinking, where did all the souls go, beginning with Adam and Eve up to Jesus." Scripture says, “hades”, I think. But, does that mean they were all in hell with the devil or somewhere else, far from God? Hate to think they were with the devil all those thousands of years, how aweful! After Jesus rose from the dead He went to hell to get the souls that were redeemed. Were those souls subject to Satin until then? Yikes, how dreadful.

Thank You Jesus!!!

Somewhere or someone told me it is beneficial to ask The Lord to grant your Purgatory on earth. Is that possible? Hope so, because I asked for this and want to fly straight into the center of God’s heart when I die. Ask, and it will be given. For what Father would give His son or daughter a stone if he/she asked for a loaf of bread.

High Hopes

 

[JackmanUSC]

joehar:

Does God’s Word teach about purgatory? There is no mention of purgatory in the 66 books of the Bible, There is no possible way to reconcile Catholic teaching with Protestant teaching or the Bible on this point. Purgatory is part of a false gospel.

Did you lose these Books out of your Bible?
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory. 2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

 

[JackmanUSC]

Oh wait it gets better dude.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory. 2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

thank the good people at scripturecatholic.com for the stuff that takes too long to type out. Don’t worry double checked it months ago.

 

[JackmanUSC]

And just to get back to the main point about whether purgatory is fire or whatnot.

II. Purification After Death By Fire

Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, “but only” (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or “yet so”) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God’s temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory. Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

JackmanUSC:

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge

It is very strange how some people have interpreted the “adversary” or “accuser” here as being Satan or his demons. One wonders how they could imagine that Christ is advising us to “be reconciled with Satan and his demons in the way.”

St Dorotheus and other Church Fathers explain that “the adversary or accuser” is a person’s conscience with which he must be reconciled in this life.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Where were all the souls created from Adam and Eve to Jesus? Were they in hell with the devil? Were they in Purgatory? Limbo?

How did Moses and Elija come and see Jesus in the transfiguration, if they were in hell? I don’t get it.

Thank you

 

[silverknights]

I like to view God as an all consuming fire of love and in that context one could say that when a person dies and moves closer towards Gods fiery presence, only that which is pure remains and all thats impure (which consists of all the attachments to this world and to sinful tendancies) is burnt up in Gods presence; for only that which is absolutely pure can enter Gods august presence; the pain one experiences in purgatory will not be so much the purifying fire as the pain of seeing God (the ultimate desire of ones heart “Our hearts are restless untill they rest in Thee” -St. Augustine) and not being able to be united to Him.

Those whose works were pure will pass through this purifying fire unscathed and enter Gods presence immediately like the saints.(especially those whose works are like pure gold)
Those whose works have some impurity will have to go through a period of purification when all thats impure will be burnt up (purged out) before entering Gods presence, and it will cause pain because seperation always does, this experience can be called purgatory.(especially those whose works are like gold mixed with hay)
Those whose works are entirely impure will be totally consumed in the fire and will not be able to move any closer to God.(especially those whose works are entirely like hay)

From this we see that the teaching on purgatory is not at all that far-fetched as many people make it out to be, infact very biblical and convincing.

We must all remember to pray for the souls in purgatory especially those souls who are (1) most in need of Gods mercy, (2) abandoned, (3) nearest release from purgatory, (4) our beneficiaries and dearly beloved.

Jesus, King of Mercy; I trust in Thee
Mary, refuge of sinners; Pray for us
Mary, comforter of the afflicted; Pray for us

 

[weddy]

my best understanding is PLACE,like heaven it would have boundaries of some sort, bu…ut not within the physical confines that we know now, but with renewed spiritual bodies that are aware of the spiritual realm of GOD that stands outside of our current time & space coordinates, and outside of our limited comprehension

 

[CLW001]

A Place No Fire Except The Burnning Fire Of Love
For God A Place Where We Become Saints In Order To Get To Heaven A Place To Learn And Practice
Heroic Virtue. A Place To Work Off { So To Speak}
Our Temporal Punishment Due To Our Sins And The Pain Of Not Having The Beiatific Vision Of God.
Thank God For His Love And Mercy To Give Us
Purgatory. If There Was Only Heaven And Hell
And You Have To Be A Saint To Get To Heaven Where Would 99% Of Us Be? Get The Point.