Purgatory......

[rinnie]

]

Chiil, baby! Of course the Advocate came upon the disciples at Pentecost But, I believe that Jesus’s words were intended for ALL believers, not just the apostles, And what I mean is, you cannot find scripture where Jesus said,“Go to a priest weekly and confess your sins!” I do repent and I do confess, then I thank God for His forgiveness! So, therefore, it is a personal choice whether or not to go see a priest! My priest is a High Priest, in the order of Melchizedek:thumbsup: 1John 1:9 I accept the teachings of Peter, Paul and all disciples as truth!

Then why in Matt 18:18 Did Jesus not say all believers give the power to the Apostles only.

Matt 18:17 The apostles had the poer to discipline
Luke 10:16 The Apostles had the power to speak in Christs voice
John 20:22 The Apostles got the power to forgive sin.
Acts 15:28 The Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spriit.

And not only can I find the scripture I will show it to you.

Matt 16:19 Jesus gave the Apostles the power to bind and loose sins, now how are they going to do that if we do not go to them and confess them?

How about John 20:22 If you forgive anyones sins they are forgiven if you retain they are retined. Do you think he was talking to you, because scripture is quite clear he was talking to the apostles.

Now my little chill bear, I did my part you do yours. Show me where Jesus was talking to us and not the Apostles.

ANd no offense but the you do not have the authority to teach, but the Church does. So what you beleve is not what was and is taught by the Church (the living Christ)

 

[tweetymom]

But we are not all Priests, We all are given different gifts. Again do you claim to posses the power of the Holy Spirit to give absolution. If you do why does Gods word say to go to the Church.

Now all you are giving me is what YOU think, what YOU say, Can you now quote to me the teaching of the Church or Scripture to back up what you are saying.

Please show that to me now Now your opinion, I want what God says not you.

I did not say i had the power to give absolution. Only God has the power to forgive.

 

[adrift]

Only God Has the power of forgiveness. Yes i can give the onointing of the sick, have given it to my husband in the hospital. It doesn’t say I cannot marry in the CC. We as believers are all Christ’s disciples and we have power from the Holy Spirit.

Than Jesus was wrong when He breathed on the Apostles and said who sins you forgive they are forgiven. Those sins you retain shall be retained? Again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The Sacrament of Anointing of the sick may only be given by a priest. No you did not give the Sacrament and If you believed you were attempting to do that than you are in grave sin. The Bible is meant for all but not everything in the Bible was meant for each individual to do. The Bible in its present form did not exist for 300 years. If it was meant for all, than why didn’t Jesus write it and give it to His Apostles. He told the the Apostles to PREACH not to WRITE. No where in the Bible can you see a command for the Apostles to write what Jesus said but to PREACH. The WORD was meant to be heard not read. Jesus established a Church. He ordained His priest to carry the WORD and to teach us what to do. Only a person full of PRIDE will tell Jesus. You didn’t really mean to establish a Church. I know what you really meant despite the clear evidence that you did mean that "You are ROCK and upon this Rock I will build my Church.

 

[rinnie]

And you know that this is not for all, because?

Again scripture states it.

James 5:14-15 Presbyters of the Church…,pray over him…he will be forgiven (prayer for Presbyters forgives sin) Presbyters in the gospels means Priests by the way you may want to investigate it on your own.

 

[tweetymom]

Than Jesus was wrong when He breathed on the Apostles and said who sins you forgive they are forgiven. Those sins you retain shall be retained? Again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The Sacrament of Anointing of the sick may only be given by a priest. No you did not give the Sacrament and If you believed you were attempting to do that than you are in grave sin. The Bible is meant for all but not everything in the Bible was meant for each individual to do. The Bible in its present form did not exist for 300 years. If it was meant for all, than why didn’t Jesus write it and give it to His Apostles. He told the the Apostles to PREACH not to WRITE. No where in the Bible can you see a command for the Apostles to write what Jesus said but to PREACH. The WORD was meant to be heard not read. Jesus established a Church. He ordained His priest to carry the WORD and to teach us what to do. Only a person full of PRIDE will tell Jesus. You didn’t really mean to establish a Church. I know what you really meant despite the clear evidence that you did mean that "You are ROCK and upon this Rock I will build my Church.

So say you. If you believe this God Bless you.

 

[rinnie]

Than Jesus was wrong when He breathed on the Apostles and said who sins you forgive they are forgiven. Those sins you retain shall be retained? Again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The Sacrament of Anointing of the sick may only be given by a priest. No you did not give the Sacrament and If you believed you were attempting to do that than you are in grave sin. The Bible is meant for all but not everything in the Bible was meant for each individual to do. The Bible in its present form did not exist for 300 years. If it was meant for all, than why didn’t Jesus write it and give it to His Apostles. He told the the Apostles to PREACH not to WRITE. No where in the Bible can you see a command for the Apostles to write what Jesus said but to PREACH. The WORD was meant to be heard not read. Jesus established a Church. He ordained His priest to carry the WORD and to teach us what to do. Only a person full of PRIDE will tell Jesus. You didn’t really mean to establish a Church. I know what you really meant despite the clear evidence that you did mean that "You are ROCK and upon this Rock I will build my Church.

Amen, and that is the word that we live by. And that is the Church that we go to, the living Christ the CC.

 

[rinnie]

So say you. If you believe this God Bless you.

We don’t just say this, and we don’t just believe this, This is God Word!

 

[tweetymom]

Again scripture states it.

James 5:14-15 Presbyters of the Church…,pray over him…he will be forgiven (prayer for Presbyters forgives sin) Presbyters in the gospels means Priests by the way you may want to investigate it on your own.

Listen when I prayed and annointed my husband he was gravely ill, there was no priest there and I did what I had to do. He did survive, thanks be to God.

 

[PJM]

=1beleevr;

I agree with tweetymom; that all scripture is for all believers! And as far as her statement of Jesus being in her heart, if we use the catholic method of interpretation; John 14:20,24 could tell all of us that Jesus is in our hearts if we are believers! I don’t believe that mortal men can give me absolution from my sins Besides, Jesus did not tell us to go to confession, it is a personal choice!

***twetymom and I have danced this song before, and she is a wonderful dancer, but always wants to lead

Friend, I have explained this multiple times before. At least twice in this string, but I’ll do it again just for you!

Catholics neither believe, teach or practice that “priest” forgive our sins. [Just had this dicussion with Ed earlier today.]

Here is how it actually works.

ALL of humanity has a specific role to do,
The Priest has a different and separate role, and God has the main role.

I would point out the “model” for the Sacrament of Confession, which as I will show, is both created and mandated by Jesus Himself, is based on Old Testament Practices.

** Lev.5:6 ***" and he shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin."

** 2Chr.29: 21 **" And they brought seven bulls, seven rams, seven lambs, and seven he-goats for a sin offering for the kingdom and for the sanctuary and for Judah. And he [GOD] commanded the priests the sons of Aaron to offer them on the altar of the LORD"

The Point here is that the idea of priest being not simply used BUT ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL AS SIN FORGIVENESS INTERCESSORS IS NOT NEW.

The role, mandate and responsibility of ALL humanity is to obey Christ and Confess there sins to a Catholic Priest. WHY? I know you dn’t want to hear this, so look it up;its still in your KJB!

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**"When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send YOU! " Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

The role ** of the Catholic priest is 1. To hear your Confession of your sins. 2. Determine if you are truly sory for them? 3. To determine if you are committed [with God’s help] to avoid sinning this way again. [EX. if your sin is sex outside marriage and your living with your partner, your NOT sincerly committed to not so sinning again, and your sin will not be forgiven. [COLOR=“red”]4. to council you on how not to sin again, 5 To issue an appropriate penance [in place of your OT goat offering]. 6 with the words:" I ABSOLVE YOU FROM YOUR SINS, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER; THE SON; AND THE HOLY SPIRIT."

NOTE, He does NOT use the words “I FORGIVE YOU”! HOWEVER THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS!

THE ROLE OF GODis the actual forgiving of your sins that the priest has 1. petitioned God to do for you on your behalf. 2. Authorized God as Christ has mandated him to do, to actually forgive you your sins, which requires this specific process. READ Mt. 16: 18-19 for further evidence.

And friend, if Christ did not tell you [an all of us to go to Confession] what Bible are you reading? Its in mine and in the KJB.

PLEASE don’t say God didn’t mean it, God did not understand what He was mandating, or God was lying! READ WHAT IT SAYS! Then friend do it:thumbsup:

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by coosa
This is simply, to me, an organization using a basic doubt of God’s forgiveness among the flock to extort power reserved only for God to attain wealth and power. Which they were sucessful in doing. This was eventually revealed and challanged. Sometimes, it seems that we are ALL guilty of worshipping religions or demoninations of religions more than God. It is so shameful. ]/QUOTE]

Good answer, coosa!

We have * responed to this obviously errent understanding three times now on this string alone.

PLEASE DO ALL OF US A FAVOR AND READ POST 320.

God bless you both.*

 

[adrift]

Listen when I prayed and annointed my husband he was gravely ill, there was no priest there and I did what I had to do. He did survive, thanks be to God.

You did what you could. BUT it was not a sacrament. I am glad he recovered. Prayer is powerful.

 

[adrift]

So say you. If you believe this God Bless you.

Again a flippant answer. I covered different things. One was what the Bible says. one is what history says and the third is what the Church who has the authority given by Jesus as recorded in the Bible says.

 

[rinnie]

Listen when I prayed and annointed my husband he was gravely ill, there was no priest there and I did what I had to do. He did survive, thanks be to God.

Hey tweety I never denied that our prayers cannot work and God does not give us power in our prayers. Don’t get me wrong. And I will give you that one. My husband was also deathly sick with cancer and I also prayed over him and for him. I will never take that away from you or anyone. And he has been in total remission for 15 years thanks be to God.

But tweety I think you are a sweet and wonderful person, honest I do. And I love l believer. But I am just showing you guys where alot of your teachings go against scripture and the teachings of the church thats all. Thats what I thought we were here for. To show the teachings of the CHurch and especially on purgatory what a great teaching that is.

 

[rinnie]

I agree with about half(actually less) of what you said! I don’t believe that catholics are the only ones who can understand and teach it Otherwise I would be a catholic

Well see lb thats what we have to do Get you to agree with the whole thing and get you Catholic

 

[tweetymom]

Hey tweety I never denied that our prayers cannot work and God does not give us power in our prayers. Don’t get me wrong. And I will give you that one. My husband was also deathly sick with cancer and I also prayed over him and for him. I will never take that away from you or anyone. And he has been in total remission for 15 years thanks be to God.

But tweety I think you are a sweet and wonderful person, honest I do. And I love l believer. But I am just showing you guys where alot of your teachings go against scripture and the teachings of the church thats all. Thats what I thought we were here for. To show the teachings of the CHurch and especially on purgatory what a great teaching that is.

Thank you I think you are a nice person too, But All the CC teaches is not backed up by scripture.

 

[adrift]

Thank you I think you are a nice person too, But All the CC teaches is not backed up by scripture.

Where does it say in Scripture that it contains all or where does it say that if it isn’t in Scripture don’t believe it?

 

[Teneas]

Thank you I think you are a nice person too, But All the CC teaches is not backed up by scripture.

It is very much so backed up by scripture, just gotta know where to look. All our beliefs are backed up by scripture, unless you don’t recognize the CC interpretation on scripture. Which, no offense Tweety, you have proven time and time again, that you do not recognize the CC interpretation on most of scripture.

 

[rinnie]

Thank you I think you are a nice person too, But All the CC teaches is not backed up by scripture.

But it really is my love, Either in Written Scripture, or Oral Scripture. BUt its all from the same source. Jesus Christ. ANd it all ties in together.

 

[tweetymom]

But it really is my love, Either in Written Scripture, or Oral Scripture. BUt its all from the same source. Jesus Christ. ANd it all ties in together.

Sorry but not.

 

[tweetymom]

It is very much so backed up by scripture, just gotta know where to look. All our beliefs are backed up by scripture, unless you don’t recognize the CC interpretation on scripture. Which, no offense Tweety, you have proven time and time again, that you do not recognize the CC interpretation on most of scripture.

Thank you very kindly for your assesment of me.I do not recognize it because a lot of isn’t there.