Purgatory......

[Bill_Pick]

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Now I have a question, If some one was never in a church,and was baptism at 4 in the after noon,and at 6 at was kill in a car wreck,will h e be saved

Richard, I see you did not answer the question,again will you please answer

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

The, “One Baptism” mentioned in Eph 4: 5, Is the Spiritual baptism into the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12: 13. [By one spirit we are baptised into the body of Christ]. Nothing about water.
Also, Paul said to the Corinthian believers,
[It is through my Ministry that you are born again] BUT he said, “I BAPTISED NONE OF YOU”. SO YOU CAN SE THAT PAUL DIDN’T BELIEVE IN FORGIVENESS OF SINS THROUGH WATER BAPTISM.

Huh? First of all Eoh 4 is talking about the incarnation.

In 1 Cor Paul was addressing the divisions in the community for goodness sakes. I have no idea what you are talking about?

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN[SIGN]]

Baptism is a very real expression of our faith in the one that has saved us from our sins and that would be Jesus Christ. We cannot save ourselves through anything we do. Baptism in and of itself has no power to [/SIGN]save us.

Emphasis on “repent” and “in the name of Jesus Christ” It is symbolic of our death to sin and resurrection to life in Christ.

Well, I think scripture disagrees with you. Here’s a few.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is just through Romans, I could keep going but you get the idea. Justification before a holy God is by faith in Jesus Christ period. Baptism is the outward manifestation of that faith.

Baptism is the outppuring of the Holy SPirit that saves us from our sins. If the pouring of the HS does not save us what does then?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, I see you did not answer the question,again will you please answer

I can’t answer your question Bill. For one thing I’m not God and I can’t judge whether or not anyone is saved except myself. And really Bill why speculate on the hypothetical. We have enough to deal with in reality. Also you just don’t give enough information. For the umteenth time. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY BAPTISM. WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST. You don’t state in your hypothosis whether or not your subject has done that so the only possible answer is I don’t know.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is just through Romans, I could keep going but you get the idea. Justification before a holy God is by faith in Jesus Christ period. Baptism is the outward manifestation of that faith.

[SIGN][/SIGN[SIGN]]

Baptism is the outppuring of the Holy SPirit that saves us from our sins. If the pouring of the HS does not save us what does then?

Are you serious rinnie? you went to the trouble of reposting these 15 verses that tell us exactly how we are saved and then you ask what saves us? GO BACK AND READ THE VERSES YOU JUST REPOSTED. Also in my post that you reposted here there is this. “Justification before a holy God is by faith in Jesus Christ period. Baptism is the outward manifestation of that faith” I don’t know if you are not reading these posts or what, but as far as I’m concerned this along with the verses here posted and many others answers your question.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I can’t answer your question Bill. For one thing I’m not God and I can’t judge whether or not anyone is saved except myself. And really Bill why speculate on the hypothetical. We have enough to deal with in reality. Also you just don’t give enough information. For the umteenth time. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY BAPTISM. WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST. You don’t state in your hypothosis whether or not your subject has done that so the only possible answer is I don’t know.

Richard, That is a good answer “I do not know” Thats the answer I got from JW one time, I ask him who Christ was and he said" I do not know"
.Richard Just one more thing,if you get baptism right before you die you will go to heaven,just as the thife on the cross

 

[tweetymom]

I can’t answer your question Bill. For one thing I’m not God and I can’t judge whether or not anyone is saved except myself. And really Bill why speculate on the hypothetical. We have enough to deal with in reality. Also you just don’t give enough information. For the umteenth time. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY BAPTISM. WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST. You don’t state in your hypothosis whether or not your subject has done that so the only possible answer is I don’t know.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, That is a good answer “I do not know” Thats the answer I got from JW one time, I ask him who Christ was and he said" I do not know"

That’s not what you asked me Bill.

Richard Just one more thing,if you get baptism right before you die you will go to heaven,just as the thife on the cross

Same question, same answer.

 

[Bill_Pick]

That’s not what you asked me Bill.

Same question, same answer.

Richard, Get your bible out and read these verse and then we can talk BUT YOU MUST READ ALL OF THEM

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” Many Protestant churches are now teaching that baptism is only a symbolic ritual, and not what actually cleanses us from original sin. This belief contradicts Scripture and the 2,000 year-old teaching of the Church.

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.

Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38 - there is nothing in these passages or elsewhere in the Bible about baptism being symbolic. There is also nothing about just accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior in order to be saved.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.” Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.”

John 3:3,5 - unless we are “born again” of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase “born again” is “anothen” which literally means “begotten from above.” See, for example, John 3:31 where “anothen” is so used. Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our salvation.

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized. If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This is a powerful text which demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.

 

[1beleevr]

But Kastner washed in the blood of the lamb for what. Our sins or not?

Of course for our sins, what other reason is there? Like he said, if baptism is for forgiveness of sins, why did Jesus die on the Cross? Two verses and a question for you: Colossians 1:14, and 1John 1:7. And, were the sins of those baptized by John the Baptist forgiven?

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie,

protestants believe that Jesus died and paid the price once and for all for ALL sin, OS AND actual sin, past present and future.

that’s why you will never be able to convince richard.

As far as I can tell, Richard is dialed in! In other words he gets it. Peter told the people to turn back to God for forgiveness of sin, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and the would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! Believe first, repent, confess, be baptized receive!

 

[1beleevr]

tweetmom, Have you ever heard of CONFIRMATION,ITS THE SEAL OF THE SPIRIT, A GIFT OF THE FATHER

Confirmation is just for catholics, right?

 

[1beleevr]

how did a thread on purgatory evolve into a thread on baptism?

It is actually a common occurrence on catholic answers forum; for a thread to morph into something else besides what it started out to be!

 

[1beleevr]

rinnie,

protestants believe that Jesus died and paid the price once and for all for ALL sin, OS AND actual sin, past present and future.

that’s why you will never be able to convince richard.

And I was under the impression that all Christians believed that this is why Jesus died on the Cross; not just noncatholics!

 

[1beleevr]

As are yours

My thoughts, exactly!

 

[1beleevr]

Mine come from the Church which derives its authority from Jesus himself

Yours come from your own imagination

Your imagination is rather vivid, I must say!

 

[1beleevr]

How do you get purgatory out of that scripture.

Hard to get purgatory out of any verse, especially when purgatory does not exist!

 

[1beleevr]

I can’t believe you said that Ib. Did you not understand that by the baptism of Jesus came the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

So you see rinnie, once you confess your sins, repent, and ask for forgiveness; and THEN get baptized, you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! Jesus’s baptism was a sign of obedience to the Father also!

 

[1beleevr]

tweetymom, John 1:32 - when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit, which descended upon Him in the form of a dove. The Holy Spirit and water are required for baptism. Also, Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok. See John 1:31; cf. Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:21.

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, “Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” When Jesus said “water and the Spirit,” He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

Actually, John the Baptist was a Nazarite, which begs the question, were the sins of all those he baptized, forgiven?

 

[1beleevr]

Nope, wrong again

Baptism is what washes away sin. Even a cursory understanding of scripture tells us this.

Baptismal Grace:
catholic.com/library/Baptismal_Grace.asp

Born again in Baptism:
catholic.com/library/Born_Again_in_Baptism.asp

Actually, you are wrong; Phillip explained to the eunuch what he had read, the eunuch BELIEVED in Christ, repented for his sins, and then he was baptized!