Purgatory......

[Bill_Pick]

!bel, I found verse Acts 8;37 I think thats right and why it was omit here is the verse
10 [37] The oldest and best manuscripts of Acts omit this verse, which is a Western text reading: "And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ And he said in reply, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’ "

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Are you serious rinnie? you went to the trouble of reposting these 15 verses that tell us exactly how we are saved and then you ask what saves us? GO BACK AND READ THE VERSES YOU JUST REPOSTED. Also in my post that you reposted here there is this. “[SIGN]Justification before a holy God is by faith in Jesus Christ period. Baptism [/SIGN]is the outward manifestation of that faith” I don’t know if you are not reading these posts or what, but as far as I’m concerned this along with the verses here posted and many others answers your question.

No it isn’t. Without Grace faith if not even possible for goodness sakes.

And Baptism is a Sacrament instituted by Christ to save our soul. Without baptism we ca not be released from original sin.

In Baptism you whole being has beeen affected by Christ through forgivenss of sins and resurrection to a new life.

 

[rinnie]

So you see rinnie, once you confess your sins, repent, and ask for forgiveness; and THEN get baptized, you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! Jesus’s baptism was a sign of obedience to the Father also!

That is lb teaching not the teaching of the Church. Jesus Christ said to baptise all. You never answered my question are you saying that Jesus holds baptism from an infant? yes or no?

 

[rinnie]

Eph 4 is not talking about incarnation. The reason you have no idea what I am talking about is, “Because you arn’t born again”. The thigs of God are sporitualy discerned

Oh? Then tell me how are you born again in Christ without Baptism?

 

[1beleevr]

Oh? Then tell me how are you born again in Christ without Baptism?

In Acts 8:37, why does Phillip tell the Ethiopian eunuch that he must believe with all his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, before he can be baptized? And how about Colossians 1:14?

 

[1beleevr]

That is lb teaching not the teaching of the Church. Jesus Christ said to baptise all. You never answered my question are you saying that Jesus holds baptism from an infant? yes or no?

It is actually Christ’s teaching, echoed by the disciples! You know John 3, and Acts 2:38, among others?

 

[rinnie]

In Acts 8:37, why does Phillip tell the Ethiopian eunuch that he must believe with all his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, before he can be baptized? And how about Colossians 1:14?

Because before learning about Christ how was he to know? He did not hear about Jesus or Baptism until Philip taught him. Are you saying that if the eunuch had a infant with him Philip would have denied the child Baptism?

In col. 1:12-14 A summary about the redemption by the Father precedes the statement in v 15-2. about the beloved Son who is Gods love in person. Christians share in the inheritance in the light with the holy ones, here the angels. the imagery reflects the exodus delivered transferred and Jesus’ theme of the kingdom redemption is explained as forgiveness of sins.

Wheras the man an women were originally created in the image and likeness of God, Christ as image of the invisible God, now shares this new nature in Baptism of those redeemed.

Now how about baby’s. Are you saying Christ rejects Baptism to babys?

 

[rinnie]

It is actually Christ’s teaching, echoed by the disciples! You know John 3, and Acts 2:38, among others?

Sure for those who can, but again where does it state that those who are babys cannot be baptised if he cannot repent?

 

[adrift]

So you see rinnie, once you confess your sins, repent, and ask for forgiveness; and THEN get baptized, you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! Jesus’s baptism was a sign of obedience to the Father also!

Jesus Said

Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

He didn’t say confess your sins, or repent and then get baptized. Jesus said that you had to be born again of water and Spirit. He commanded the apostles

All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

Jesus didn’t tell them that they had to repent before they were baptized.

Actually, John the Baptist was a Nazarite, which begs the question, were the sins of all those he baptized, forgiven?

His baptism was not the Sacramental baptism of Jesus. It did not forgive sins.
If you are claiming that baptism does not forgive sins, then you are contradicting scripture

[]In Acts 2:38](http://www.catholic.com/library/Are_Catholics_Born_Again.asp), Peter tells us, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” When Paul was converted, he was told, “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16).

Peter also said, "God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.** Baptism**, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:20–21)

 

[1beleevr]

Because before learning about Christ how was he to know? He did not hear about Jesus or Baptism until Philip taught him. Are you saying that if the eunuch had a infant with him Philip would have denied the child Baptism?

In col. 1:12-14 A summary about the redemption by the Father precedes the statement in v 15-2. about the beloved Son who is Gods love in person. Christians share in the inheritance in the light with the holy ones, here the angels. the imagery reflects the exodus delivered transferred and Jesus’ theme of the kingdom redemption is explained as forgiveness of sins.

Wheras the man an women were originally created in the image and likeness of God, Christ as image of the invisible God, now shares this new nature in Baptism of those redeemed.

Now how about baby’s. Are you saying Christ rejects Baptism to babys?

No one has ever said anything about Jesus rejecting infant baptism! We have collectively said, that we don’t believe that babies are aware of what is happening. So why baptize the before they can understand what is being said, and before they know who Jesus is

 

[1beleevr]

Because before learning about Christ how was he to know? He did not hear about Jesus or Baptism until Philip taught him. Are you saying that if the eunuch had a infant with him Philip would have denied the child Baptism?

In col. 1:12-14 A summary about the redemption by the Father precedes the statement in v 15-2. about the beloved Son who is Gods love in person. Christians share in the inheritance in the light with the holy ones, here the angels. the imagery reflects the exodus delivered transferred and Jesus’ theme of the kingdom redemption is explained as forgiveness of sins.

Wheras the man an women were originally created in the image and likeness of God, Christ as image of the invisible God, now shares this new nature in Baptism of those redeemed.

Now how about baby’s. Are you saying Christ rejects Baptism to babys?

KJV says in Colossians 1:14, that it is the blood of Christ which removes our sins!

 

[1beleevr]

The same way all the Jewish infants made a profession of faith before they were brought into the Covenant through circumcision.

Leo Buscaglia once said,“When you learn something new, you should write it down, and share it with two people.” I have learned today from my sister in Christ, guanophore, that 8-day old infants could make professions of faith!

 

[1beleevr]

Oh? Then tell me how are you born again in Christ without Baptism?

Well, of course not! But Jesus did say,"To be born of Spirit and water, which would be the belief in and profession of faith, followed of course by baptism. All sin was forgiven on the Cross, by virtue of Jesus’s shed blood!

 

[adrift]

KJV says in Colossians 1:14, that it is the blood of Christ which removes our sins!

I don’t disagree with this statement.

However
COL 1:14
He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
14
in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
It does not contradict

“God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:20–21)

Jesus through His sacrifice saves us. Peter says it best Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Baptism save us through the resurrection. It is because Jesus died that we have the means of being saved.

 

[adrift]

This is my own analogy so it probably will fall way short and be swiftly torn apart.

Jesus is our key to the door that opens the Sacraments to us. Without the door being open we would not be able to access the saving graces of Baptism.

 

[adrift]

Well, of course not! But Jesus did say,"To be born of Spirit and water, which would be the belief in and profession of faith, followed of course by baptism. All sin was forgiven on the Cross, by virtue of Jesus’ shed blood!

You have got it backwards. He said to be born of Water (baptism) and the Spirit. Jesus told the Apostles

you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you

. That was Pentecost and the Spirit was God. The cross only allowed us to ask for forgiveness. Can you cite a scripture that says all is forgiven? If is was all forgiven, why do we need to repent? What is the point of our lives? What about the Scripture that says Baptism forgives sins. Was Peter wrong when he said that baptism forgives sins?

 

[rinnie]

No one has ever said anything about Jesus rejecting infant baptism! We have collectively said, that we don’t believe that babies are aware of what is happening. So why baptize the before they can understand what is being said, and before they know who Jesus is

Well among other things the one that sticks in my mind is what I have been taught through life. As soon as a baby comes into this world that soul needs the entrance of the Holy Spirit. Give that soul to Jesus as soon as possible. Do not give the devil a chance,

The minute you take a baby to Church and ask for the Holy Spirit to be poured into its soul,

Now back to my question, agreed you did not say in those exact words that you are rejecting baby baptism, but on the other hand you said that in order to be baptiesed you must repent, did you not?

So back to my question how then would a baby be baptised then?

 

[rinnie]

Well, of course not! But Jesus did say,"To be born of Spirit and water, which would be the belief in and profession of faith, followed of course by baptism. All sin was forgiven on the Cross, by virtue of Jesus’s shed blood!

Correct all sin was forgiven at baptisim. Original sin. Original sin does not have to be confessed. Original sin is what we were born into, That is why a baby can be baptised and does not have to confess original sin. No one does. Now actual sin is the sin we do and yes it must be confessed at baptism if we are older.

Original sin is what kept us out of heaven before the death of Christ, Why do you think he released the souls after his death?

Before Jesus we did not have the sacraments. Tell me you said all sin was forgiven by the cross. I agree with you, that no matter what sin we do we can be forgiven for even actual sin.

But tell me this, what about after baptism then, what about acutal sin that we commit after we are baptised? Do you think that once you asked for forgiveness at baptism you can sin all you want after and are still forgiven?

 

[rinnie]

This is my own analogy so it probably will fall way short and be swiftly torn apart.

Jesus is our key to the door that opens the Sacraments to us. Without the door being open we would not be able to access the saving graces of Baptism.

I agree with everything you said. By his death and ress. Jesus set us free. He knew we would fall short that is why he left us the sacraments. The sacraments are our way of gaining the grace we received at our first baptism when we fall from grace.

Sin is how we fall from grace. The sacraments made possible by Christ is how we are able to regain it back. I agree with everything you said. Without the sacraments eternal life would be pretty much impossible.

 

[Bill_Pick]

No one has ever said anything about Jesus rejecting infant baptism! We have collectively said, that we don’t believe that babies are aware of what is happening. So why baptize the before they can understand what is being said, and before they know who Jesus is

Baptism,A New life and ways of living

Confirmation,SEAL of the Spirit,a Gift of the Father