Purgatory......

[1beleevr]

***So friend,

God is lying or just didn’t understand what He ws saying and doing?

Or did He simply NOT MEAN what he said?

How easy it is to ONLY accept the pasages you agree with, and those that allow you, in ignorance, to play “spin doctor” with.

How do you explain the mutiple truths you impose for the same issues? Oh, I get it. The 2000 year Old Catholic Church is wrong every time. Sure is a conveinant faith you practice. WWJD?

Denying truth does not change it; it only makes you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Have you considered friend, that denying God’s Word is denying God Himself?

Love and prayers,***

God is not and does not lie, but He did establish a new covenant with us when Christ died on the Cross and removed the veil which had separaed man from Himself! So to use scripture which deals with sin and burnt offerings and the priest representing the people to justify going to confession today, is pointless! And you of all people(being a catholic) should know all about accepting only the passages you agree with And I don’t know, is the catholic church always wrong? And who are you to say that I deny God’s Word?

 

[1beleevr]

Jesus doesn’t specifically say in the Bible that His Church’s name is Catholic.

]

Bravo, bravo! That is what we have been saying all along; that Jesus did not call His church, including us noncatholics, catholic!

 

[1beleevr]

That is plucked out of nowhere. Reaching for straws I guess or maybe redherrings

]

All you have to do is read most of the catholic posters on this forum! Enmity outweighs charity by quite a large margin!

 

[coosa]

FREE WILL ANYONE? Is there a thread on free will? If not how do you start one?

 

[rinnie]

]

Bravo, bravo! That is what we have been saying all along; that Jesus did not call His church, including us noncatholics, catholic!

Actually he did, but in a different way.
Katholikus comes from a combo of 2 words.

Kata (concerning)
Holos (whole)

According to the oxford Dic. of English Elmology it means universal of general.

The word Church in greek means called out.

It was first recorded in Ignatius of Antioch, there was a young man named Ignatius who was actually ordained by Peter that was the first to call the Church Catholic.

He wrote (Epistle of Smymaeans 8)

Now there is history that he was the 2nd Bishop of Rome and he was ordained by Peter. Thats proves that his church and Peters Church is indeed the same. He was immerced in the Living Traditions of the Local Church in Antioch where the first believers were called Christians. acts 11:26

This is recorded, he was the one who first called the Church that was started by Jesus and build on Peter the Catholic Church.’’

Check it out. So the CC the church that was started in Antioch. Ignatius is who gave it that name.

 

[1beleevr]

Out of where? The only one striking out is you.

No it was replace with Baptism. Unless you are born again of water and the Spirit remember that? He told the Apostles to go and Baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Baptism is what brings us into the family of God just like circumcision did for the Jews. Remember Jesus said He came to fulfill.

What do you think communion is? It is our Eucharist which is called communion also. I guess your strike was a hit out of the ball park.

.
Jesus told the Apostles:

Your math is fuzzy. I got all of them right. You will have to expand on the rock that Moses struck. Oddly you capitalizes it.

Why are you still in the batter’s box? Oh, maybe you believe you foul tipped that last one Read Galatians 5:2-6, Romans 2:25-29 about circumcision! In the old Testament, circumcision was a sign of the covenant between God and the Jews! And why did Jesus get baptized? The Passover feast, from Exodus, was a sign of salvation(protected by the blood of the Lamb), and is our communion! And I can’t believe that you cannot see the reference to Christ in the Old Testament, as the Rock which Moses struck What came out when he did? And the sin offering was not replaced by going to a priest Jesus did not exhort us to go to a priest! Besides many of you catholics do not believe that verses were intended for us all!

 

[1beleevr]

Actually he did, but in a different way.
Katholikus comes from a combo of 2 words.

Kata (concerning)
Holos (whole)

According to the oxford Dic. of English Elmology it means universal of general.

The word Church in greek means called out.

It was first recorded in Ignatius of Antioch, there was a young man named Ignatius who was actually ordained by Peter that was the first to call the Church Catholic.

He wrote (Epistle of Smymaeans 8)

Now there is history that he was the 2nd Bishop of Rome and he was ordained by Peter. Thats proves that his church and Peters Church is indeed the same. He was immerced in the Living Traditions of the Local Church in Antioch where the first believers were called Christians. acts 11:26

This is recorded, he was the one who first called the Church that was started by Jesus and build on Peter the Catholic Church.’’

Check it out. So the CC the church that was started in Antioch. Ignatius is who gave it that name.

]

Like you said, Jesus didn’t call the early church catholic, so we won’t either!

 

[rinnie]

]

Like you said, Jesus didn’t call the early church catholic, so we won’t either!

But the CC is the Church Jesus started. Is that not the point

 

[1beleevr]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Speak for yourself my dear buddy. See lb you guys accuse us on one hand on never changing our teaching, then the other say we do. Thats what happens in scriptures too. You guys say it says one thing, then another.

For ex. Let no man call you Father. Again taking scripture out of context. Because only 2 things can be possible. First you do not understand that scripture therefore you teach it wrong. OR Second Jesus told us to sin. And so did all of his Apostles, Let me show you.

What is one of the ten commandments. Honor your Mother and Father.
What do you have a Mother, and what your mothers husband, you have never called you dad or never refered to him as your Father.

Something is again very very wrong with your interpretation, which is why you have a problem with not only purgatory all of Catholic faith.

Explain these scriptures for me.

Acts 7:2 Stephen calls the jewish leaders Fathers
acts 22:1 Paul call Jews in Jerusalme fathers
romans 4:16 Abraham is the Father of us all
1 Cor 4:15 I BECAME your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the scripture
Philemon 10 Onesimus whose father I have become in my imprisonment
1 Thess. 2:11 treated each…as a father treats his children
Heb. 12:9 we have had our earthly fathers discipline us
1 John 2:13 I am wriiting to your fathers
Also
Matt3:9
luke1:73
luke 3:8
Luke 4:26

I could go on and on. But please explain these ones to me first.
Now can you make all of that scripture go away. You must in order to persecute the CC. Or you must say you are indeed misinterpreting scripture and the Church is of course correct. Whats it gonna be.

]

Not misinterpreting scripture and the cc is fallible! With Matthew 23:9, I am saying that I believe that Jesus meant that you are not to call any man on earth Father(upper case used to emphasize that God is Father, not father) Of course I had anearthly father, but God and only God is my Holy Father, not the pope or any other catholic priest! This is the respect that God deserves!

 

[1beleevr]

But the CC is the Church Jesus started. Is that not the point

]

Well, it is what the cc believes and teaches The rest of us believers, and members of the Bride of Christ are not so sure!

 

[tweetymom]

]

Well, it is what the cc believes and teaches The rest of us believers, and members of the Bride of Christ are not so sure!

 

[adrift]

]

All you have to do is read most of the catholic posters on this forum! Enmity outweighs charity by quite a large margin!

Generalization usually fall flat of the truth as does yours. Most Catholics on this forum are charitable a few or not. Just like most of other faiths that come here are charitable and than there are a few that give non-Catholics a black mark.

 

[adrift]

]

Well, it is what the cc believes and teaches The rest of us believers, and members of the Bride of Christ are not so sure!

It is an historic truth but I do understand why you cannot admit this truth. The Catholic Church IS the bride of Christ. If you are baptized, you belong to the Church even if it is imperfectly. Jesus established only ONE Church. He choose His Apostles, taught them, sent them out to establish His Church. That is an historical fact.

 

[rinnie]

]

Not misinterpreting scripture and the cc is fallible! With Matthew 23:9, I am saying that I believe that Jesus meant that you are not to call any man on earth Father(upper case used to emphasize that God is Father, not father) Of course I had anearthly father, but God and only God is my Holy Father, not the pope or any other catholic priest! This is the respect that God deserves!

The bible says that Paul was persecuting the CC. The one that was started by Jesus and build on Peter and taken over by Ignatius. Jesus said Paul Paul why are you persecuting me. Paul said who are you. He said Jesus the one you are persecuting. Now if Jesus Christ is the CC how can Jesus Christ be fallible. Or do you just ignore that scripture. So the CC is Jesus Christ and he is not fallible. You get a F

Now back to Matthew. Jesus wasn;t talking to us. Go back and read that scripture. He was warning his Apostles against the teachngs of the Pharisees. He denounces the Pharisees as blind guides in respects to their teachings and oaths. The verses warning the use of various titles are addressed to the DISCIPLES ALONE. Again PLEASE go back and read it, and put it into the correct context for goodness sakes.

See 1B again you are taking one sentence completely out of context. Instead of concentrating on what Jesus is trying to teach the Apostles and show them, you take the sentence and run with it. Slow down lB. I want you to be around for a long long time

 

[adrift]

Why are you still in the batter’s box? Oh, maybe you believe you foul tipped that last one Read Galatians 5:2-6, Romans 2:25-29 about circumcision! In the old Testament, circumcision was a sign of the covenant between God and the Jews! And why did Jesus get baptized? The Passover feast, from Exodus, was a sign of salvation(protected by the blood of the Lamb), and is our communion! And I can’t believe that you cannot see the reference to Christ in the Old Testament, as the Rock which Moses struck What came out when he did? And the sin offering was not replaced by going to a priest Jesus did not exhort us to go to a priest! Besides many of you catholics do not believe that verses were intended for us all!

I guess you forgot so I will remind you. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament. circumcision was the symbol of that covenant. Jesus’ covenant is with Baptism fulfilling and completing what circumcision was. Circumcision was replace by baptism. Paul was telling the Galatians that they were no longer under the old covenant. It says nothing about the new. Neither does Romans deny what I have said about baptism. In fact, it substantiates it.

No I do not see Christ as the Rock Moses struck. It is interesting but it is an interpretation. Can you provide a scripture that says that? Go back through the thread and all the references provided that Jesus gives the power to forgive sins to the Apostles. You have a misunderstanding of what the Bible is. There is a Catholic Catechism on line that will give you the best understanding.

 

[1beleevr]

It is an historic truth but I do understand why you cannot admit this truth. The Catholic Church IS the bride of Christ. If you are baptized, you belong to the Church even if it is imperfectly. Jesus established only ONE Church. He choose His Apostles, taught them, sent them out to establish His Church. That is an historical fact.

]

I am saved, and baptized(in that order), and am a member of the Bride of Christ; even if you believe I am imperfectly! It seems like that a church which was founded by a Jew(Jesus)for Jews, has become very exclusive and territorial when it comes to its religion! But, whatever blows your skirt up!

 

[rinnie]

:tsktsk:[SIGN][SIGN][/SIGN][/SIGN]

God is not and does not lie, but He did establish a new covenant with us when Christ died on the Cross and removed the veil which had separaed man from Himself! So to use scripture which deals with sin and burnt offerings and the priest representing the people to justify [SIGN]going to confession today, is pointless! [/SIGN]And you of all people(being a catholic) should know all about accepting only the passages you agree with And I don’t know, is the catholic church always wrong? And who are you to say that I deny God’s Word?

James 5:14-15 Presbyters of the Church …Pray over him (Prayer of Presbyters forgive sin.

2 cor. 5:17-20 God has reconciled us to himself given us the ministry of reconciliation.

Now 1B how can God reconcile himself with the Apostles and give them the authority to forgive sin, and the you say this is pointless. Shame shame:bigyikes:

 

[tweetymom]

The bible says that Paul was persecuting the CC. The one that was started by Jesus and build on Peter and taken over by Ignatius. Jesus said Paul Paul why are you persecuting me. Paul said who are you. He said Jesus the one you are persecuting. Now if Jesus Christ is the CC how can Jesus Christ be fallible. Or do you just ignore that scripture. So the CC is Jesus Christ and he is not fallible. You get a F

Now back to Matthew. Jesus wasn;t talking to us. Go back and read that scripture. He was warning his Apostles against the teachngs of the Pharisees. He denounces the Pharisees as blind guides in respects to their teachings and oaths. The verses warning the use of various titles are addressed to the DISCIPLES ALONE. Again PLEASE go back and read it, and put it into the correct context for goodness sakes.

See 1B again you are taking one sentence completely out of context. Instead of concentrating on what Jesus is trying to teach the Apostles and show them, you take the sentence and run with it. Slow down lB. I want you to be around for a long long time

It did not say that Paul was percuting the CC, thats all believers. And In Matthew and all of Christ’s words He is speaking to us believers. The apostles were the only ones there. It is pretty obivios You or I wern’t No one is taking anything out of context,all of scripture is for all and Jesus is speaking to all of us.,

 

[kage_ar]

Sorry but not.

Let me know how that telling God His Church is defective works out for you on judgement day.

 

[tweetymom]

Let me know how that telling God His Church is defective works out for you on judgement day.

Never said it was defective, But I will let you know if you promise to do the same.