Purgatory......

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Richard_Kastner said:
There is no place or condition that we call purgatory where the temporal punishment for sins is purged. That was taken care of on the cross. To say that there is, is to say that Jesus’ magnificent sacrifice was not enough.

Hebrews:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
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Purgatory is very real…

*St Faustina Kowalska, Diary No. 20
(Vision of Purgatory)

"One day I asked the Lord, ‘Lord, who else should I pray for?’ Jesus said that on the following night He would let me know for whom I should always pray for.

The following night, I saw my Guardian Angel who asked me to follow him. In a moment I was in a misty place full of fire in which there was a great crowd of suffering souls. They were praying fervently, but to no avail, for themselves; only we can come to their aid. The flames which were burning them did not touch me at all. My Guardian Angel did not leave me for an instant. I asked these souls what their greatest suffering was. They answered me in one voice that their greatest torment was longing for God. I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in Purgatory. The souls call her ‘The Star of the Sea.’ She brings them refreshment. I wanted to talk with them some more, but my Guardian Angel beckoned me to leave. We went out of the prison of suffering. * which said, My mercy does not want this, but justice demands it. Since that time, I am in closer communion with the suffering souls."

Justice demands that we cannot enter heaven unless we have fully paid our debts. That is why, while still here on earth, let us begin to pay for our debts. When we go to confession, we are asked to say penance, and that’s it. That is not enough. We have to make reparation. It is not enough to pray three Our Fathers and then no more. The goodness of God cannot be satisfied just like that. That’s why the need for us to offer daily our sufferings, offer daily our trials for the poor souls and, especially, for our own souls to shorten our stay in Purgatory."**
 
Vile_Servant said:
Purgatory is most certainly a place. 😉

*"We see St. Michael as we see the angels. He has no body. He comes to get the souls that have finished their purification. It is he who conducts them to Heaven. He is among the Seraphim as Monsignor said. He is the highest angel in Heaven. Our own Guardian Angels come to see us but St. Michael is far more beautiful than they are. As to the Blessed Virgin, we see her in the body. She comes to Purgatory on her feasts and she goes back to Heaven with many souls. While she is with us we do not suffer. St. Michael accompanies her. When he comes alone, we suffer as usual. When I spoke to you of the great and the second Purgatory, it was to try and make you understand that there are different stages in Purgatory. Thus I call that stage of Purgatory great or worst where the most guilty souls are, and where I stayed for two years without being able to give a sign of the torments I was suffering. The year you heard me groaning, when I began to speak to you, I was still in the same place.

In the second Purgatory, which is still Purgatory but very different from the first, one suffers a great deal, but less than in the great place of expiation. Then there is the third stage, which is the Purgatory of desire, where there is no fire. The souls who did not desire Heaven ardently enough, who did not love God sufficiently are there. It is there that I am at this moment. Further, in these three parts of purgatory, there are many degrees of variation. Little by little, as the soul becomes purified, her sufferings are changed."*
  • An unpublished manuscript on purgatory
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New Advent says place or state but EWTN say state.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM#Purgatory

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm

CCC just states final purification. Doesnt say state or place.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
There is no place or condition that we call purgatory where the temporal punishment for sins is purged. That was taken care of on the cross. To say that there is, is to say that Jesus’ magnificent sacrifice was not enough.

Hebrews:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
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So are you saying that Jesus did it all?
 
We haven’t!

We have to use our own free will to choose Christ every day.

There can be no sin or inclination to sin in heaven.

Let him who is sinless represent the sinless and go straight to heaven!!
 
The purgatory teaching isn’t really something I care to much about, but I would just like to know how some people interpret the passage where the bible states that people who die in the state of sin will not enter heaven before being cleansed?
 
To: tweetymom and Richard Kastner

So I don’t have to have faith? I am not disagreeing with you I am trying to make sense of it. I try to learn from every encounter and discussion as positive and Christian like that I can. If he did it all then I don’t have to do anything? Just sit back and live a sinful life? No that is too easy. After all we need to carry our own cross. We need faith, love, good deeds, and follow the commandments. Care to chime in of where in the Bible it says that Jesus did it all? I am not denoting or putting the Lord’s actions on the Cross down in any way shape or form. I would just like to know where the Bible says he did it all. As always I too am learning and want to learn the truth. Thanks God Bless.
 
Roblox84 said:
The purgatory teaching isn’t really something I care to much about, but I would just like to know how some people interpret the passage where the bible states that people who die in the state of sin will not enter heaven before being cleansed?
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I too would like to know what passage you are talking about?
 
Vile_Servant said:
Justice demands that we cannot enter heaven unless we have fully paid our debts.
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Of coarse it does, but we can’t pay them. Rom.6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
See, we have to earn our death. We do that by sinning. We cannot pay the price for our own sins unto eternal life because well, when we pay the price we’re dead and there is no life after death in sin. That’s were Jesus comes in. He gives us the gift of eternal life that He bought by His perfect life, death, and resurrection.
That is why, while still here on earth, let us begin to pay for our debts. When we go to confession, we are asked to say penance, and that’s it. That is not enough. We have to make reparation. It is not enough to pray three Our Fathers and then no more. The goodness of God cannot be satisfied just like that. That’s why the need for us to offer daily our sufferings, offer daily our trials for the poor souls and, especially, for our own souls to shorten our stay in Purgatory."
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We cannot earn or in any way merit this gift. It wouldn’t be a gift then would it?
 
Edson said:
I too would like to know what passage you are talking about?
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Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Can’t this passage be talking about the deadly sin that is mentioned in the bible?
 
Edson said:
To: tweetymom and Richard Kastner

So I don’t have to have faith? I am not disagreeing with you I am trying to make sense of it. I try to learn from every encounter and discussion as positive and Christian like that I can. If he did it all then I don’t have to do anything? Just sit back and live a sinful life? No that is too easy. After all we need to carry our own cross. We need faith, love, good deeds, and follow the commandments. Care to chime in of where in the Bible it says that Jesus did it all? I am not denoting or putting the Lord’s actions on the Cross down in any way shape or form. I would just like to know where the Bible says he did it all. As always I too am learning and want to learn the truth. Thanks God Bless.
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Edson, I don’t think I said that you don’t have to have faith. Rom.6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In order for a gift to be a gift it needs to be accepted. We accept this gift through faith.
Jn.3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
When we accept this gift, Halleluia, our sins are forgiven and we are justified before a holy God, but it doesn’t end there.
Rom.10: 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The way we make this confession of faith is through baptism.
Rom.6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
 
Roblox84 said:
Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Can’t this passage be talking about the deadly sin that is mentioned in the bible?
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The only ones who will be able to enter God’s heavenly kingdom are those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. This is how we are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Hear this and hear it well. You will not be written in the book of life if you think that you can in any way pay the price yourself, through good works or through some kind of purging fire after we die. There’s a song we sing in our church that pretty much sums it up.

Jesus paid it all. All to thee I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
The only ones who will be able to enter God’s heavenly kingdom are those who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. This is how we are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Hear this and hear it well. You will not be written in the book of life if you think that you can in any way pay the price yourself, through good works or through some kind of purging fire after we die. There’s a song we sing in our church that pretty much sums it up.

Jesus paid it all. All to thee I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow.
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But that still doesnt clear up the fact that if you die tommorow with sin, you are still considered unpure. So in this situation, how would this work?
 
Being washed with the Blood of the Lamb is not only believing in Christ as Lord, but it is tantamount of picking one’s cross and following Him.

The Catholic faith has great value in redemptive suffering…and if we accept all the crosses God gives us every day, and will not to sin, even though we do out of weakness, then we enter heaven.

Being washed with the Blood of the Lamb also reflects the saving action of the Mass…only Christ can please the Father and atone for our sin. At Mass, we are united with Christ and offered with Him to the Father.

We cannot look only at the Holy Spirit working through Scripture although St. Paul himself speaks of the purifying fire in Corinthians…the Gospel of Jesus Christ said that All debts must be paid to the Father…we must also look at the Holy Spirit at work through the Tradition of faith, that is the faith handed down by the Apostles in the establishment and fruits of the Church. Both Scripture and Tradition are intertwined through the working of the Holy Spirit.

All books in the Bible were put together by the Catholic Church. Those selected were those that would work to completely uphold the history and message (Jesus Christ) in salvation history. The Book of Maccabees states it is good to pray for the dead. Jesus Christ descended to the gates of hell to free those who were just and to open the kingdom of heaven for them.

Catholics and Christianity have never operated on the Bible alone. The Church intently chose particular books that were conducive to the universal faith-- Christ died for mankind, including those who lived and died before Him, and those who followed Him in times to come.

The Bible in itself cannot stand alone unless there is a break from the tradition of the Church. People should study the Catechism of the Catholic Church and see how the Church upholds every word in Scripture, and that it works not to take phrases or words out of context or within their own, but for the greater understanding of the Word in its entirety – in the Tradition of Church going back to Christ and His apostles. Changing one word, or adding or deleting another is the work of man and not the Holy Spirit, and can only bring about division and fracture within the Body of Christ.
 
Roblox84 said:
But that still doesnt clear up the fact that if you die tommorow with sin, you are still considered unpure. So in this situation, how would this work?
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If you die tommorrow in sin, you have not accepted the free gift that God offers through His son Jesus Christ. If you have done that your sins are forgiven and if you die tommorrow the next thing you will be aware of will be Christ coming in the clouds of glory to take you home.

John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
If you die tommorrow in sin, you have not accepted the free gift that God offers through His son Jesus Christ. If you have done that your sins are forgiven and if you die tommorrow the next thing you will be aware of will be Christ coming in the clouds of glory to take you home.

John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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What about the sin the bible mentions for which there is no forgiveness?
 
Roblox84 said:
What about the sin the bible mentions for which there is no forgiveness?
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There is no sin that if we repent and ask forgiveness that the Lord will not forgive. The only sin that will not and cannot be forgiven is the sin for which no forgieness is asked.
 
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