Q for Christians: Why were the Magi looking for Jesus?

[SedesDomi]

I’m not too familiar with Buddhist martyrs, but the ones I know of do not actually fit the category of “martyr”.

The Islamic invasion of India led to Buddhist and Hindu martyrdom.

 

[Jimdandy]

Jews are the chosen people of God, and as such deserve our love and respect.

The covenants that God made with Adam, Noah, Abraham, the whole nation of Israel through Moses, and Kings David & Solomon are binding for all time.

God will not desert His people. I believe that the Jewish nation will be playing a role in all our futures.

Jesus came, fulfilled the Law and promises to return.

I trust in My King-He will not let His people perish without giving them another chance to believe in Him

( and yes, I am familiar with the theology of Christians being the New Israel)

I appreciate learning how Jews view our religion, we all should pray for them at each Mass we celebrate.

 

[Steven_John]

Um, Jews never embalm our dead. NEVER. We never add any spices to the body either, to preserve it. This is why the NT passage which speaks of the body of Jesus having spices, etc applied always made me chuckle.

This is one thing that Judaism has always been very strict on: we never do ANYTHING to the body except wash it down and wrap it in a shroud with no pockets…then the bodies are placed into a plain, pine unpainted box, or in ancient times, in caves or right into the ground with no coffin.

The idea of applying spices and embalming came from the ancient Egyptians, not the Israelites.

Maybe you can get a better idea now, of why Jews who are very familiar with their religion and what it teaches/does, do not see what you do.

Shalom to you
I enjoy many of your posts and they help me grow in my faith, you have much knowledge of G-d’s people.

I saw on a TV doc that in ancient times people put their dead in caves and later put the bones in clay boxes.

I know not to trust TV but it looked convincing and seemed to make sense.

they did not preserve the body only the bones so why would they need preservatives.

I can also see the logic of how people say it would be different for Jesus (pbwh).

I am not scholar but thought the body was given to a Jew that followed Jesus (pbwh) and he took care of things.

I pray even if you do not get respect here that you will continue to post and share, people like me who are not real bright benefit from it.

May you and your descendants be blessed

 

[buffalo]

Judaism has always taught the Resurrection of the dead, but not one person, one time. Judaism has always taught that the Resurrection of the dead will happen at the End of Days, and ALL people will be raised, not just one.

BTW who actually witnessed Jesus being raised from the dead? They claim to have seen him afterward, but no one claims to have actually seen him raised (btw it was a Catholic nun who pointed that fact out to me!)

Jesus did miracles? So did the magicians at Pharoah’s court. Miracles in and of themselves are meaningless.

You say no one dies for a lie? Some people do. There have been men on death row who went to their deaths professing innocence, but DNA tests later proved they were the murderers after all.

So you see, some people DO die for a lie.

Actually the Roman Guard (a sizable number) seen the stone rolled away. But no, No one was actually in the tomb to see it happen. However, there were witnesses to His Ascension.

So Here is what we have - Witnesses to Jesus’s life. Extrabiblical references establish the historical Jesus. Witnesses to His Death on the cross and burial. Witnesses after His Resurrecttion. We have the splitting of the temple curtain at His death. Your own Talmud references mysterious events at the time of Jesus’ death.

 

[HashemEchad]

Psalm 16:10; 30:3 - He will not be spared from death and yet remain incorrupt - Acts 2:31; 13:33,35 - Jesus conquered death and remained incorrupt.

Psalm 68:20 - He will escape the powers of death - Acts 2:31; 13:33; Matt 28:6; Mark 16:6, Luke 24:46; John 20:9-10 - Jesus escaped the powers of death through his resurrection.

Yet, she is still a nun. So, if you expected this to be “troubling”, you were wrong. If someone wanted to make up a story, they could just as easily say, “Yeah, I saw Him raise from the dead”. So, what’s the trouble with this? The facts happened to occur in another way. His body was buried in a tomb with a stone rolled in to close it. There wouldn’t have been a crowd there inside the tomb at the time, let alone one witness.

Wow, that’s some “magician”… even appearing after death! That has to be the ultimate “magic trick”.

I can tell you haven’t looked at the link with side-by-side comparisons of the Old Testament prophecies with the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus Christ, so here it is again:

scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

There is far too much here to ignore as “reading into” passages.

As a countermissionary involved in exit counseling, do you have any IDEA how often I’ve seen lists like that…and refuted every one of them? Its not like anyone here is showing me anything new.

If you care to read a refutation of them, go to messiahtruth.com

 

[HashemEchad]

Actually the Roman Guard (a sizable number) seen the stone rolled away. But no, No one was actually in the tomb to see it happen. However, there were witnesses to His Ascension.

So Here is what we have - Witnesses to Jesus’s life. Extrabiblical references establish the historical Jesus. Witnesses to His Death on the cross and burial. Witnesses after His Resurrecttion. We have the splitting of the temple curtain at His death. Your own Talmud references mysterious events at the time of Jesus’ death.

These are all things that can only be taken on faith by Christians, because there is no historical evidence that these things happened, apart from the NT (which to me, reads like a 1st century infomercial for a new, struggling religion.)

 

[Cathdefender]

These are all things that can only be taken on faith by Christians, because there is no historical evidence that these things happened, apart from the NT (which to me, reads like a 1st century infomercial for a new, struggling religion.)

Yea, compared to the fairy tales of the OT…

 

[buffalo]

These are all things that can only be taken on faith by Christians, because there is no historical evidence that these things happened, apart from the NT (which to me, reads like a 1st century infomercial for a new, struggling religion.)

I found a couple of sources that no doubt you will disagree with _

JESUS IN THE RABBINIC TRADITIONS

Part I: Jesus and the Talmud

 

[HashemEchad]

Yea, compared to the fairy tales of the OT…

You are treading on dangerous ground now, because the “OT” is part of YOUR religion too! However, the “NT” is not part of mine.

If the “OT” is made up of “fairy tales”, then that means there are no prophecies of Jesus in it after all, right? Good to see you finally admit it.

Have you ever heard of the Marcionite heresy of the earlier Christian church? You are treading dangerously close to sounding like one.

 

[HashemEchad]

I found a couple of sources that no doubt you will disagree with _

JESUS IN THE RABBINIC TRADITIONS

Part I: Jesus and the Talmud

I always click on the link to see the origin of it.

That first link is from an anti-Jewish Muslim website which distorts and takes passages out of context.

The second is from a neoNazi revisionist website.

Another person kept quoting Talmud from another antisemitic, white supremacist site, which does the same

Why doesn’t anyone quote from a JEWISH site? Any particular reason? Because you know, referring to an antisemtic, neoNazi or militant Islamic site does no one’s credibility any good, at least not with me.

If anyone has any questions as to what the Talmud or other Jewish teachings ACTUALLY says about Jesus IN CONTEXT, why not ask a real rabbi? askmoses.com

 

[Cathdefender]

You are treading on dangerous ground now, because the “OT” is part of YOUR religion too! However, the “NT” is not part of mine.

If the “OT” is made up of “fairy tales”, then that means there are no prophecies of Jesus in it after all, right? Good to see you finally admit it.

Have you ever heard of the Marcionite heresy of the earlier Christian church? You are treading dangerously close to sounding like one.

No, I am not talking about the prophecies, you have a tendency under your bitterness toward Catholics to just jump the gun whenever you can…understandable. If I didn’t believe in Christ, I may be confused like you too.

 

[HashemEchad]

No, I am not talking about the prophecies, you have a tendency under your bitterness toward Catholics to just jump the gun whenever you can…understandable. If I didn’t believe in Christ, I may be confused like you too.

Getting back on the topic, you said the OT is “fairy tales”. How can you say that when doing so makes you a Marcionite heretic according to your OWN religion?

Remember, the OT is part of YOUR religion; the NT is not part of MINE.

 

[buffalo]

I always click on the link to see the origin of it.

That first link is from an anti-Jewish Muslim website which distorts and takes passages out of context.

The second is from a neoNazi revisionist website.

Another person kept quoting Talmud from another antisemitic, white supremacist site, which does the same

Why doesn’t anyone quote from a JEWISH site? Any particular reason? Because you know, referring to an antisemtic, neoNazi or militant Islamic site does no one’s credibility any good, at least not with me.

If anyone has any questions as to what the Talmud or other Jewish teachings ACTUALLY says about Jesus IN CONTEXT, why not ask a real rabbi? askmoses.com

They were the first couple that came up. The point is that there seem to be references to events that happened in Jewish writings? Yes or No?

Yeah, and I wouldn’t want to quote from the neo-nazi site. Sorry.

 

[HashemEchad]

They were the first couple that came up. The point is that there seem to be references to events that happened in Jewish writings? Yes or No?

Yeah, and I wouldn’t want to quote from the neo-nazi site. Sorry.

Yeshu and Jesus were very common names in ancient times. There are several people with those names mentioned in the Talmud, and as far as I know, none refer to the Nazarene.

This created a lot of confusion in the Middle Ages, when Catholic theologians who did not know Jewish history well, tried to translate the Talmud from the Aramaic it is written in, and automatically assumed any “Jesus” they saw referred to THEIR Jesus. This resulted in the Talmud being burned in France and other places in medieval times, and the Jews forcibly converted to Catholicism.

 

[buffalo]

Yeshu and Jesus were very common names in ancient times. There are several people with those names mentioned in the Talmud, and as far as I know, none refer to the Nazarene.

This created a lot of confusion in the Middle Ages, when Catholic theologians who did not know Jewish history well, tried to translate the Talmud from the Aramaic it is written in, and automatically assumed any “Jesus” they saw referred to THEIR Jesus. This resulted in the Talmud being burned in France and other places in medieval times, and the Jews forcibly converted to Catholicism.

But I do have a question as far as sources go? If I quoted a fact from Hitler’s diary that was posted on a neo-nazi site, would it invalidate the fact?

 

[HashemEchad]

But I do have a question as far as sources go? If I quoted a fact from Hitler’s diary that was posted on a neo-nazi site, would it invalidate the fact?

Well, since Hitler and neo-Nazi go together, I’d say it would not invalidate it.

But since neoNazis hate Jews, and often look for any ay they can to distort our beliefs or activities, I’d say to quote from their site regarding a group they hate would not be a smart idea.

 

[Cathdefender]

Yeshu and Jesus were very common names in ancient times. There are several people with those names mentioned in the Talmud, and as far as I know, none refer to the Nazarene.

This created a lot of confusion in the Middle Ages, when Catholic theologians who did not know Jewish history well, tried to translate the Talmud from the Aramaic it is written in, and automatically assumed any “Jesus” they saw referred to THEIR Jesus. This resulted in the Talmud being burned in France and other places in medieval times, and the Jews forcibly converted to Catholicism.

At least the church turned the Scriptures from Hebrew and Greek (which were original languages) into Latin, which was the living language of the world, for the benefit of her children. It might still of been kept in darkness, unknown by leaving it in Hebrew and Greek. They did the very opposite. Does this seem as if the church was anxious to keep her people in ignorance?
Also, what difference would it of made if a man cannot read as in the Middle Ages, what on earth is the use of putting a bible in his hand under any language whether Greek, or Hebrew, or Latin or English or Arabic?? That man, if he is taught the bible at all, must be taught it in other ways and by other means.

 

[HashemEchad]

At least the church turned the Scriptures from Hebrew and Greek (which were original languages) into Latin, which was the living language of the world, for the benefit of her children. It might still of been kept in darkness, unknown by leaving it in Hebrew and Greek. They did the very opposite. Does this seem as if the church was anxious to keep her people in ignorance?
Also, what difference would it of made if a man cannot read as in the Middle Ages, what on earth is the use of putting a bible in his hand under any language whether Greek, or Hebrew, or Latin or English or Arabic?? That man, if he is taught the bible at all, must be taught it in other ways and by other means.

You are forgetting one thing: in medieval times, few people could read or write, let alone in Latin.

Thus the Protestant claim, that Luther put the Bible “in the language of the people” is equally bogus. Because what good did it do if most people could not READ, period?

That is why the church had stained glass depictions of Biblical events, so the illiterate could learn from those.

 

[Spirithound]

JESUS IN THE RABBINIC TRADITIONS

Part I: Jesus and the Talmud

I always click on the link to see the origin of it.

That first link is from an anti-Jewish Muslim website which distorts and takes passages out of context.

The second is from a neoNazi revisionist website.

Another person kept quoting Talmud from another antisemitic, white supremacist site, which does the same

Why doesn’t anyone quote from a JEWISH site? Any particular reason? Because you know, referring to an antisemtic, neoNazi or militant Islamic site does no one’s credibility any good.

If anyone has any questions as to what the Talmud or other Jewish teachings ACTUALLY says about Jesus IN CONTEXT, why not ask a real rabbi? askmoses.com

The first website is entitles “Answering Islam”. It is not a Muslim site, it’s a Christian site. As far as I can tell, it’s only anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish in the sense that it’s pro-Christian. But of course, I’m quite ignorant of those religions, so if you can show me how it’s being hateful or other anti- behaviour, please do.
As for the second site, wikipedia identifies the author as you do; I will not use his material anymore.
But really, “kept quoting Talmud”? I only gave one quote, and then at your objection I asked for a faithful e-copy of Talmud. And I still can’t see how you can tell it’s white-supremacist. All that’s there is Talmud and rabbinic commentary. And the site you gave is just Q&A, it seems. Is there a full Talmud there?

 

[HashemEchad]

The first website is entitles “Answering Islam”. It is not a Muslim site, it’s a Christian site. As far as I can tell, it’s only anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish in the sense that it’s pro-Christian. But of course, I’m quite ignorant of those religions, so if you can show me how it’s being hateful or other anti- behaviour, please do.
As for the second site, wikipedia identifies the author as you do; I will not use his material anymore.
But really, “kept quoting Talmud”? I only gave one quote, and then at your objection I asked for a faithful e-copy of Talmud. And I still can’t see how you can tell it’s white-supremacist. All that’s there is Talmud and rabbinic commentary. And the site you gave is just Q&A, it seems. Is there a full Talmud there?

I apologize for confusing the “Answering Islam” site with another one of a similar name, that IS Muslim and antisemitic.

As for an online version of the Talmud from a Jewish source, I don’t know of one because I own a complete set of the Talmud, offline…so I never had to find an online form of it.

Maybe go to askmoses.com and ask them if they know of one?