QAnon Supporter, Wins GOP House Primary in Georgia

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tomarin said:
Trump himself is a big promoter of conspiracy theories, so that could be a factor too. It’s where this whole movement leads.
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Seeing as how the Democratic party has spent 3.5 failed years pursuing conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory in an attempt to bring down Trump, I’d say the danger comes from them. How does Trump get labeled as conspiracist when the opposing party has pursued or pushed false narratives and conspiracies non-stop, and has literally nothing to show for it?
Nepperhan said:
" QAnon first surfaced in 2017 with a series of anonymous posts on the internet forum 4chan claiming to reveal high-level government intelligence about crimes by top Democrats. It has since spawned one of the most disturbing and consequential conspiracy theory communities in modern history. Its followers have committed serious crimes, and its online vigilantes have made a sport of harassing and doxxing their perceived enemies. The F.B.I. has cited QAnon as a potential domestic terror threat, and social networks have begun trying to pull QAnon groups off their platforms. Dozens of QAnon-affiliated candidates are running for office this year. One of them, Marjorie Taylor Greene, won a primary runoff Tuesday for a House seat in Georgia, drawing a congratulatory tweet from Mr. Trump
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I find it rich that the same people who have no issue with AOC, Omar, Taliab and the other non-descript one no one cares about now take issue with a QAnon supporter potentially in office. Take out your own garbage first before complaining about your neighbor’s yard.
 
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Trump’s personality is a dark, paranoid one (in my estimation) and since his movement is a personality-based one, it is not surprising that this has filtered down to his most ardent supporters. I disagree with your characterization of the Mueller investigation and the impeachment trial as going after conspiracy theories (in fact isn’t having a hearing the very essence of combatting conspiracy theories?) but I don’t know if it’s worth going over all that again.
 
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So what qualifies as a conspiracy theory then? The things listed ended up proving nothing, and in Kavanaugh’s case, you literally had people admitting they lied to bring him down. AND YET, there are people who still think Kavanaugh was guilty…

It sounds exactly like conspiracies to me, and like the faked moon landing, you still have people who refuse to believe the results and proof. The only difference between these conspiracy theories and more mundane ones is you had wealthy politicians and the media pushing or believing in these, which frankly makes them all the worse.
 
tomarin said:
Trump himself is a big promoter of conspiracy theories, so that could be a factor too. It’s where this whole movement leads.
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Well, at least he isn’t a promoter of the Democrat conspiracy to kill unborn and just-born children. This QAnon seems like just a bunch of foolishness. Democrat promotion of abortion is deadly real.
Nepperhan said:
Its followers have committed serious crimes
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If you want to show this, don’t put it behind a paywall. Give us a real source.
LeafByNiggle said:
The Democrats have done nothing these four years except exercise their Constitutional Powers.
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Swearing false oaths is not a “Constitutional Power”.
tomarin said:
his movement is a personality-based one,
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Totally wrong. I don’t think his personality won him anything. I, for one, don’t much care for his personality. It’s his policies that make me support him. Reversing the anti-Catholic Obama HHS Mandate, reversing the Obama rejection of the Mexico City Policy, allowing states to defund Planned Parenthood, bringing jobs back, promoting families, keeping us out of new wars, destroying ISIS after Obama piddled with it for so long, Stock market up 10,000+ points, lowest unemployment in our lifetimes.

Personality is nothing compared to that.
 
I agree that the Kavanaugh thing was a hysteria. I thought we were talking about the Mueller investigation and the impeachment trial.

Conspiracy theories do have pretty specific characteristics: they describe plots that would be almost impossible to orchestrate in secret for very long, that can never be proven yet there’s always an explanation for why the more conventional explanation is not adequate and is even part of the conspiracy (‘that’s what they want you to believe’).

Added: just to be clear, I do think there are left-wing conspiracy theories too, like the one about crack cocaine (or was it AIDS?) being deliberately spread in black inner city communities by the FBI or CIA to destroy them; or the belief among many black people that whenever any black male attains a certain level of prosperity and fame the authorities plot to bring him down (cf Bill Cosby).
 
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He is a charismatic leader and his power over people comes from his larger-than-life personality, his belligerence, his lack of a filter and his willingness to say provocative things that excite emotions, regardless of whether they are true or not. I think what makes him popular among many conservatives is that he is willing to say abusive things about people they don’t like, but are hesitant to attack as publicly and viciously as he does.

Re the Democrats, they are wrong about abortion but that doesn’t make it a conspiracy if they openly support it. A conspiracy is a hidden plot.
 
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I’m more concerned that Ilian Omhar maintained her congressional seat…everybody should be concerned.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
The Democrats have done nothing these four years except exercise their Constitutional Powers. You are all for the Constitution, I hear.
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Sure. I’m not for developing false charges as an excuse to exercise those constitutional powers. That abuse of power.
 
A conspiracy is not necessarily hidden. But it is quite rare for Democrats to admit they are abortion supporters, now that you mention it. They hide behind “I’m against abortion, but…”

I do think you’re completely wrong about Trump’s appeal. It’s not about provocative statements or excited emotions. It’s a bit like the popularity of Fox commentators, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and such people. it’s not that they’re so charismatic, it’s that they’re finally saying something a large number of people believe. A lot of people don’t like the self-serving nature of either party and certainly not of the bureaucracy and its extensions into the world of lobbying. So along comes Trump and promises to interfere with that arrangement and a lot of people like it. He also promised no new wars, and a lot of people favor that.

It’s not personality. An internationalist, interventionist, abortionist “go along to get along” person with the same personality would be unpopular with people who presently support Trump.
 
tomarin said:
Trump’s personality is a dark, paranoid one (in my estimation) and since his movement is a personality-based one, it is not surprising that this has filtered down to his most ardent supporters.
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It is no more a personality-based movement than Obama was. His is populist, to be sure, but he ran on clear policy ideas.
In fact, his personality often steps on his good policies.
tomarin said:
I disagree with your characterization of the Mueller investigation and the impeachment trial as going after conspiracy theories
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I agree. It was not based on conspiracy theories, but flat out lies.
 
From Merriam-Webster: PLOT, INTRIGUE, MACHINATION, CONSPIRACY, CABAL mean a plan secretly devised to accomplish an evil or treacherous end. PLOT implies careful foresight in planning a complex scheme. INTRIGUE suggests secret underhanded maneuvering in an atmosphere of duplicity. MACHINATION implies a contriving of annoyances, injuries or evils by indirect means. CONSPIRACY implies a secret agreement among several people usually involving treason or great treachery. CABAL typically applies to political intrigue involving persons of some eminence.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Well, at least he isn’t a promoter of the Democrat conspiracy to kill unborn and just-born children.
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  1. It is not a conspiracy (It is out in the open)
  2. It is not to kill anyone, only to allow others who want to to kill someone. (Not that it makes it any better, but there is no point in being inaccurate in the description of what their position is.)
Nepperhan said:
Its followers have committed serious crimes
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If you want to show this, don’t put it behind a paywall. Give us a real source.
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Just because you can’t read it for free does not mean it is not a real source.
LeafByNiggle said:
The Democrats have done nothing these four years except exercise their Constitutional Powers.
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Swearing false oaths is not a “Constitutional Power”.
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Unproven allegations.
 
Let’s see after Mr. Trump is gone from the scene (in a few months or years) how well his movement does in keeping itself going without his forceful personality to give it focus and drive it forward. I don’t think you can have Trumpism without Trump because so much of it is tied up in his personality, and there’s no one like him who can step into his place when he goes.

I also think that had someone else promoted the same policy goals that are associated with him, it wouldn’t have gotten far because that person wouldn’t have had Trump’s name recognition, wouldn’t have had his willingness to say things beyond the pale and wouldn’t have had his genius for self-promotion - as well as his belief in his own abilities (which often isn’t realistic).
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
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JonNC:
I’m not for developing false charges as an excuse to exercise those constitutional powers.
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Unproven allegation.
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If you’re talking about Russia collusion and Ukraine, you nailed it.
 
the act of conspiring.

an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose:He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.

Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
 
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