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LilyElain
Guest
So you did…
“curtsy” Please forgive my not reading that before hand…
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“curtsy” Please forgive my not reading that before hand…
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chevalier
Guest
I see. My similar problem is that while I don’t shy away from physical contact, such as, say, hugging or kissing on the cheek or putting an arm around a girl, I generally don’t have the ease of leading to situations involving something like holding hands or kissing, which probably may suggest lack of interest or even lack of vigor, so to say. The fact I can be rather bold with verbal flirting, or say, soft and cheerful, doesn’t seem to convey or attract interest other than a friendly one. The fact I don’t shy away from unabashed words (words are just an example and certainly not everything; I could make one with physical expressions too) like “beautiful” or even “shapely” probably doesn’t measure up to “attractive” (that I won’t normally use) or “sexy” (that I *won’t *use). So it just doesn’t have the certain chemistry, I guess.
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sheilathebard
Guest
To the guys on this thread:
I think that if a guy is being told that he’s “husband, but not boyfriend material” and finding that girls are interested when he says “sexy” but not when he says “beautiful” … then he’s hanging out with the wrong girls. I don’t hold the answers as to where the nice girls are to be found (though I know a ton personally – and also a ton of nice single guys), but clearly you’re not around them if a lack of sexual forwardness is losing you points with girls. The nice girls appreciate being respected, especially if you’re open about your interest in other ways.
To the girls:
I’m married already so I can’t exactly give you my “list.” And I never had a really concrete list (aside from a few basics) before I met my husband either. But I’ll tell you what I would have on my list now, if I knew what was fair to expect:
*Good Catholic (practicing, trying to avoid sin, believing all the teachings, etc.)
*Shares my views on children, education, and so forth (I knew long before I was married that I wanted a lot of kids and I wanted to homeschool them)
*Relatively intellectual – because I am, and I would want someone I could talk to about abstract things
*Funny. This is an absolute must.
*A good friend – someone I knew I could count on and who was easy to talk to.
*Has good friends – that is to say, he hung out with people I could respect. You’re known by the company you keep.
*Non-smoker, may drink but does not get drunk
*Responsible in his work ethic and commitments – if he says he’ll be somewhere or do something, it’ll happen. He doesn’t have to be rich, but if he has a good work ethic, he’ll always manage to make ends meet.
*Respects the kind of woman I am – fairly independent but very feminine, etc.
*Still likes me after knowing me well
Mutual attraction is obvious, right? But I think it comes from knowing the things on the list are there, rather than “must be X height” or “good looks” – at least for me.
As I got to know my now-husband, I became more sure he was the one for me every time I found he had one of these traits. There’s nothing I’ve left out of my list that I really think is important (I don’t think I’ve forgotten anything, anyway), but my husband fits it 100%.
Reading over everyone’s lists, it doesn’t look like anyone’s expecting too much at all. Keep a high set of standards! Of course you can get past the superficial stuff, but most everyone’s list focused on the important things. (There was a guy who posted in another thread about what he was looking for in a woman, and he mentioned that she should have her own 401k and preferably own a gun. That, in my opinion, is getting way too specific – and superficial.)
I think that if a guy is being told that he’s “husband, but not boyfriend material” and finding that girls are interested when he says “sexy” but not when he says “beautiful” … then he’s hanging out with the wrong girls. I don’t hold the answers as to where the nice girls are to be found (though I know a ton personally – and also a ton of nice single guys), but clearly you’re not around them if a lack of sexual forwardness is losing you points with girls. The nice girls appreciate being respected, especially if you’re open about your interest in other ways.
To the girls:
I’m married already so I can’t exactly give you my “list.” And I never had a really concrete list (aside from a few basics) before I met my husband either. But I’ll tell you what I would have on my list now, if I knew what was fair to expect:
*Good Catholic (practicing, trying to avoid sin, believing all the teachings, etc.)
*Shares my views on children, education, and so forth (I knew long before I was married that I wanted a lot of kids and I wanted to homeschool them)
*Relatively intellectual – because I am, and I would want someone I could talk to about abstract things
*Funny. This is an absolute must.
*A good friend – someone I knew I could count on and who was easy to talk to.
*Has good friends – that is to say, he hung out with people I could respect. You’re known by the company you keep.
*Non-smoker, may drink but does not get drunk
*Responsible in his work ethic and commitments – if he says he’ll be somewhere or do something, it’ll happen. He doesn’t have to be rich, but if he has a good work ethic, he’ll always manage to make ends meet.
*Respects the kind of woman I am – fairly independent but very feminine, etc.
*Still likes me after knowing me well
Mutual attraction is obvious, right? But I think it comes from knowing the things on the list are there, rather than “must be X height” or “good looks” – at least for me.
As I got to know my now-husband, I became more sure he was the one for me every time I found he had one of these traits. There’s nothing I’ve left out of my list that I really think is important (I don’t think I’ve forgotten anything, anyway), but my husband fits it 100%.
Reading over everyone’s lists, it doesn’t look like anyone’s expecting too much at all. Keep a high set of standards! Of course you can get past the superficial stuff, but most everyone’s list focused on the important things. (There was a guy who posted in another thread about what he was looking for in a woman, and he mentioned that she should have her own 401k and preferably own a gun. That, in my opinion, is getting way too specific – and superficial.)
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chevalier
Guest
Sheila, that was but an example. I’m not actually sure that “sexy” would hit home in the particular cases. More like the point is that if your sexual expression is inhibited for obvious reasons (I’ve seen very beautiful women give a guy no challenge controlling himself, so my “case” doesn’t begin to measure up, there are much higher levels of it), then “chemistry” is inhibited as well, leading to obvious results. This would normally be a lucky thing because you don’t want chemistry where you couldn’t have a happy marriage, but things are different with people who are basically normal, nothing close to be maladjusted enough to forego the possibility of a normal marriage, not to mention being good, kind, nice, attractive people overall. Obviously, whoever actually sees thing the good husband/wife material but not boyfriend/girlfriend material, has to grow up some.
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StillWondering
Guest
I think a large portion of it is the modern media misinforming our social expectations. You have most everything that girls who sit down and think about it would put on their list. But the writer of that list is the conscious thinking side.
At the same time there are unconscious values we gain from the overly dramatized shows, pairing characteristics that does not natural exist in reality. What I mean is that the media intentionally popularized unrealistic and often times non-logical combination of male and female attributes in order to sell ratings. Currently in the top watched shows, we have the modern phenomenon of sexy, independent yet also easy-to-win women and top-secret agents or alpha-types males that somehow manages to be both a jerk and have friends. I’m thinking of the ladies from Desperate Housewives and the main male leads from 24 and House, MD. The purposed of making unrealistic TV characters boils down to a two prong attack on our psyche. First, inundate the audience with a character that activates the addictive centers of our brains for excitement and sexuality while exposing them to personality characteristics that would make poor complements to lasting relationships.
This way, when we try to seek out real companions, we are conflicted with worthwhile values and the ones burnt into our psyche. Since we can never honestly fulfill these desires with real people, the television networks will always have willing and addicted fans going through love hate relationships.
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dakotagirl
Guest
Ok, doll…I believe in keeping oneself chaste during marriage as well…I am sorry that has been your experience…
I know quite a few young ladies (and gentleman for that fact) here that are practicing Catholics that are very insistent on keeping themselves chaste until marriage.
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dakotagirl
Guest
To answer the OP…ugh…don’t care anymore. Wait, wait, there is still a tiny part of me that does…how about NOT CONTROLLING?. I haven’t seen that on this thread yet, although I haven’t read everything in detail, so forgive me if it has been…
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LilyElain
Guest
Eeep:blush:…sorry…correction:Ok, doll…I believe in keeping oneself chaste during marriage as well…
There are many young ladies and gentleman out there who believe in keeping themselves chaste until marriage…
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dakotagirl
Guest
Tee hee. I like this one and may use it someday…
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eucharisteo
Guest
Where do I sign up?Mine;
Catholic and practicing
Funny
Intelligent
Sweet-something to complement my tougher side and make me expose my softer side
Gentle
Strong
Doesn’t mind that I have ambitions
Hardworking
Good with kids
Looks really don’t matter to me. As for provider…I don’t think that matters, as long as he works hard at whatever he does and our children are well cared for. But I also have nothing against women working outside the homeMy dad jokes that I’ll bring home the bacon and I’ll cook it
Oh, I should add, loves adventure.
I think I need to marry a pilot
If I wasn’t married I’d go get a pilot license and look you up. Only, I’m not that ugly, so I guess I’m out of the running with that not to mention REALLY married.But you describe my wife’s feelings…only she doesn’t seem comfortable about it for some reason…guess cause she’s a fundamentalist convert to Catholic and carry’s guilt for wanting to work outside the home. Equally I feel guilty for having quit a perfectly good paying job to come home for a bit while I clean up this messy house and get certified to teach instead of “design” engineering projects. Less money to spend more time with my family. I love my wife and my children. People think I’m nuts.
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JesusInMe
Guest
definitely!! adding this one, though wondering a person who respects me would not want to control me? correct me if i am wrong…
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dakotagirl
Guest
Chev and flyingfish, I’m afraid I wasn’t able to read everything ya’ll wrote. However, while I think it is precious that you guys are using your generous IQs to find a match, there is something I feel compelled to remark on…
You can’t control everything. Absolutely no way. You can’t control that you will be in the right situation at the right time to meet the person with a perfect personality, who will also like you. You can’t control that they may have indigestion from lunch, may be coming down with the flu, and just aren’t into you at that moment. That they have no hangups from past experiences or relationships and judge you by them. Maybe their evil uncle wore penny loafers like yours and they are therefore totally repulsed by you. You can’t control all the variables. Yes, some things are a given, like if you cuss them out they will dislike you, (although even then they might have the idiocy to admire that ‘bad’ trait). You can’t completely categorize people.
What I’m saying is to chill. (You’re welcome).
You can’t control everything. Absolutely no way. You can’t control that you will be in the right situation at the right time to meet the person with a perfect personality, who will also like you. You can’t control that they may have indigestion from lunch, may be coming down with the flu, and just aren’t into you at that moment. That they have no hangups from past experiences or relationships and judge you by them. Maybe their evil uncle wore penny loafers like yours and they are therefore totally repulsed by you. You can’t control all the variables. Yes, some things are a given, like if you cuss them out they will dislike you, (although even then they might have the idiocy to admire that ‘bad’ trait). You can’t completely categorize people.
What I’m saying is to chill. (You’re welcome).
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dakotagirl
Guest
I dunno, I’ve seen Catholics who obey every letter of the law, love their wives, but are serious control freaks (and get revenge if things don’t go their way). Ugh…not controlling may not be important to some people, but it’s sure on my list.
ETA: Maybe you’re right. Maybe since you have to “love” your wife, respect just isn’t a biggie.
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eucharisteo
Guest
I should add that if I knew, which I did, that women were backing me up into a corner so specifically not allow the Holy Spirit to guide them but thinking like one of my old girlfriend’s mom that said “its just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as it is a poor one” and “if he’s (meaning me) not rich then at least he went to the seminary”. In other words “foohy on love”. Guess what the girl ended up doing after 4 years of dating and being put off by mom about marrying? You guessed it. She married a rich guy in a rich family … forget building a life together. That’s why I joined the army and accidentally found a woman that went from dating a West Point officer to a Private to me, a lowly Sergeant…and didn’t care what I did for a living as long as I made one. Now she’s allowing me to quit a good paying engineering job to go teach. She teaches too.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
I don’t think that manages the intended “correction”…Eeep:blush:…sorry…correction:
There are many young ladies and gentleman out there who believe in keeping themselves chaste until marriage…
HINT: Know what the word *chaste *means.
tee
Chased until he was married, chaste since he was married
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chevalier
Guest
Great analysis there. :tiphat:
Theoretically yes, but sometimes the other person, whom you respect, is oblivious to the nature or effects of his behaviour and then a pretty much normal person can begin to appear or even somehow be controlling. I’ve been there on occasion, e.g. when an ex couldn’t see the problem of flirting with other guys or making totally unilateral decisions about meeting up with me, including leaving early unexpectedly or coming late without warning, plus some excuses that didn’t hold water. In the first case, I’d be noticeably displeased and have a problem with it, although I wouldn’t attempt to forbid it, in the second case I would keep attempting to identify the problem to her and find a way to deal with it, which appeared controlling. I respected both of them, but the second one more, I think, as she was one of the best friends before. I suppose when the one party is being unilateral and the other party isn’t being fully unquestionningly accepting and affirmative, there will always be an impression of being controlling (not to mention the other party will at times be pushed into really being controlling, such as when pointing out contradictions etc.).
'Kay there, spot on. I’m not gonna deny 'cause you’re being so obviously right. To clarify a bit, while I don’t want to complain about people being (at least for the moment) unable to get past some past experiences (I generally don’t believe in the “fix all your problems before you approach me” approach), I think there’s plenty of plain solution to the flu/indigestion/whatever problem, such as just talking about it.Chev and flyingfish, I’m afraid I wasn’t able to read everything ya’ll wrote. However, while I think it is precious that you guys are using your generous IQs to find a match, there is something I feel compelled to remark on…
You can’t control everything. Absolutely no way. You can’t control that you will be in the right situation at the right time to meet the person with a perfect personality, who will also like you. You can’t control that they may have indigestion from lunch, may be coming down with the flu, and just aren’t into you at that moment. That they have no hangups from past experiences or relationships and judge you by them. Maybe their evil uncle wore penny loafers like yours and they are therefore totally repulsed by you. You can’t control all the variables. Yes, some things are a given, like if you cuss them out they will dislike you, (although even then they might have the idiocy to admire that ‘bad’ trait). You can’t completely categorize people.
What I’m saying is to chill. (You’re welcome).
My chief problem is not being unable to control the variables (which is kinda frustrating from an experienced amateur coder’s point of view), but the fact how emotions, feelings (emotions and feelings aren’t really substance, but they’re still some experience), the getting-to-know and bonds and communication bridges apparently go to waste, especially for trivial factors. It feels like chaos and unnecessary loss. On the other hand, my father claims God prevents us from hurting ourselves, but I’m not sure to what extend I’d agree with him.
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Jay82
Guest
Ok, I’ve been busy the last day or so and I’m finally getting a chance to respond…
I don’t abstain from all contact…kissing is fine, holding hands, putting my arm around the girl, etc.
However, I will very rarely say anything suggestive at all. If I do, it is with someone who knows me very well and in a joking manner. It will never be with anyone I just met.
As an example: I’ve had a couple girls make a statement that left themselves wide open for a suggestive comment, but I wouldn’t go with the ‘inappropriate’ response. They would then say something along the lines of - you are so nice/polite, a lot of guys would have said ‘…’ and it would have embarassed me, but I know you would never do that.
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chevalier
Guest
Well, Jay, it does sound like the girls you meet have some maladjustment there. It doesn’t even really look like a sexual obsession or anything like that, more perhaps like a repressed sexuality… and that would be the small sister of desperation, i.e. I’d guess it takes its toll on their lives that they can’t find a guy they would be happy with and one that’d be happy with them (also important, perhaps especially to women, but I wouldn’t like to shortchange us men with this comment). It seems connected also with their self-esteem, so I guess, can you say they view their value too much through the light of the “merely” sexual value? As in, they don’t see what they could offer in terms of personality (and anything up to “communion of all life”), so there’s a bit of a fixation on the lower level, which is basically looking for some connection in terms of sexuality?
So I guess a surprising conclusion would be they wouldn’t ultimately be so very different from the normal nice girls (i.e. properly adjusted, harmoniously grown, sane and healthy on the personality side), they’d just be wounded or even simply affected with as much as a self-esteem problem? On the other hand, this does sound like a simplistic explanation.
So I guess a surprising conclusion would be they wouldn’t ultimately be so very different from the normal nice girls (i.e. properly adjusted, harmoniously grown, sane and healthy on the personality side), they’d just be wounded or even simply affected with as much as a self-esteem problem? On the other hand, this does sound like a simplistic explanation.
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dakotagirl
Guest
OP: Why don’t you just find a person who gets you? Hahhaha…what am I saying?? It’s impossible enough to find a same-sex friend who gets you. 
But if you find one - go for it.
Many years ago I actually knew someone who got me. But I was very young and for various reasons didn’t pursue it. Knowing what I do now, I sometimes wonder if I shouldn’t have rabidly hunted him down and pleaded my case.
But if you find one - go for it.Many years ago I actually knew someone who got me. But I was very young and for various reasons didn’t pursue it. Knowing what I do now, I sometimes wonder if I shouldn’t have rabidly hunted him down and pleaded my case.
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royal_archer
Guest
Although we keep hearing that women want men who are sure of them selves and are confident leaders of the family. You also see many women throwing themselves at the feet of overly aggressive control freeks. Mean while the more timid gentlemenly types don’t get any attention. How is a husband suppose to meet these diametrically opposed extremes simultaneously?I dunno, I’ve seen Catholics who obey every letter of the law, love their wives, but are serious control freaks (and get revenge if things don’t go their way). Ugh…not controlling may not be important to some people, but it’s sure on my list.
ETA: Maybe you’re right. Maybe since you have to “love” your wife, respect just isn’t a biggie.
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