Question about forgiveness reply from apologist

[Sister_Amy]

I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

If one has committed a mortal sin, run to the nearest priest. You don’t want to risk dieing in that state.

I don’t understand (go figure) why you have to go to a priest. And seriously… what happens if you die on the way? God won’t forgive you?

 

[believers]

I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

I don’t understand (go figure) why you have to go to a priest. And seriously… what happens if you die on the way? God won’t forgive you?

Hi, I’m what Catholics call a protestant. Jesus is my High Priest. The Word of God says…

Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said,** I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD**; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

Rom 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Sister_Amy]

No offense, my friend, but I don’t see how that answered my question at all. The apologist gives me the impression that if a Catholic dies after committing a mortal sin before confessing it and having it absolved, then he is doomed. I don’t see the sense in that.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Once your heart has had true repentance with the intent to confess a mortal sin, the sin is forgiven. It’s really the first part of the sacrament, completed in the confessional. “Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance” says Catechism #1459. Read also paragraph 1452 to echo this. This assumes genuine repentence, or “perfect” as the Catechism puts it. “Perfect” is a technical term meaning that the repentance was done out of love. Fr. Serpa may well have meant to go to confession, which completely absolves mortal sin even if contrition is imperfect! As well, it will result in a more merciful purgatory.

It would not be held against a person if he died in transit. Similarly, if an unbaptized person would have received Baptism but first died, he would still be imparted the grace of the sacrament. (CCC# 1258).

 

[panoikei]

Mortal sin cuts us off from God. Now if you are in the state of mortal sin and die on the way to confess there is intent if you are truly contrite of heart. You would need to be sorry for your sin. Otherwise pack up some ice for the trip…I hear it gets hot down there.

There are many links on here that will give you a more theological answer, but I thought the low down simple one is best. It’s like RCIA…if you die while in the program before baptism, the Church tells us that you are covered with intent. You are seeking. That is important. Ever wondered how they managed to baptize so many people in one day just out of thin air…well, guess what? These people were most likely following them and learning all along. That’s my hunch, just looking for the proof now. The early church used to put people through 3 years of training before allowing them in the fold.

Mortal sin, that sin which cuts us off from God, as apposed to venial sin, sin that does not cut us off from God but rather requires purifying in fire [purgatory].

ewtn.com/expert/answers/mortal_versus_venial.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm

 

[BeeSweet]

I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

I don’t understand (go figure) why you have to go to a priest. And seriously… what happens if you die on the way? God won’t forgive you?

Immediately preceding the excerpt you posted:

The Church teaches that one may attempt an act of perfect contrition when unable to go to Confession only in danger of death. Otherwise, one must receive the sacrament.

God will forgive you if you are perfectly sorry for the sin. Perfectly sorry meaning you love God, and you are sorry for having hurt Him by forsaking His love. You have to understand what a mortal sin is to understand the requirement of confession. A mortal sin occurs only when one has knowledge they are committing a sin, and that person willfully disobeys God. If you die having willfully disobeyed God, and have not sought forgiveness either through an act of perfect contrition, or by going to the sacrament of reconciliation, then no, God won’t forgive you because you have not asked Him to forgive you.

Why we go to a priest is because Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to His apostles:

John 20: 21-23 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

 

[panoikei]

Thank MarcoPolo…CCC…I should have thought of that.

 

[believers]

No offense, my friend, but I don’t see how that answered my question at all. The apologist gives me the impression that if a Catholic dies after committing a mortal sin before confessing it and having it absolved, then he is doomed. I don’t see the sense in that.

Actually, Catholics believe they go to a place called purgatory to be purified.

I’m believing Colossians 3:1-2. I’m risen WITH CHRIST. So, no purgatory for me!

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m sorry y’all. I am not and have never been Catholic and words like “reconciliation” and “contrition” seem to not quite make sense to me here since I’m unfamiliar with all the laden connotations.

If you die before being able to confess but had the intention to do so, then God forgives you?

So you don’t really need to go to the priest because God can forgive you anyway, as long as you’re really sorry.

This is what I don’t understand.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Here’s another thought… if the priest forgives you then do you have to actually ask God to forgive you too?

 

[kliner]

I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

If one has committed a mortal sin, run to the nearest priest. You don’t want to risk dieing in that state.

I think a good Scriptural basis can be found in John 20:
22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

According to Catholic teaching, the Apostles were the first priests (bishops) of the Church. As shown in this passage, Jesus gave to them (after His resurrection) the ability to forgive sins (or to retain them). [And here I want the person who first replied to notice the emphasis I placed on “you” in verse 23]. This is a good start as to why Catholics believe that we have the obligation to confess our sins to a priest: because Jesus gave the Apostles (again, the first priests) the authority to do so. And also, when we go to confession, it’s not so much that we’re confessing our sins to a priest, but that we’re confessing our sins to God through the priest, through the priesthood which Jesus has established (see Hebrews 5 below) in order to bring His forgiveness to them.
Hebrews 5:
1] For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.
2] He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness.
3] Because of this he is bound to offer sacrifice for his own sins as well as for those of the people.
4] And one does not take the honor upon himself, but he is called by God, just as Aaron was.
5] So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “Thou art my Son,
today I have begotten thee”;
6] as he says also in another place, “Thou art a priest for ever,
after the order of Melchiz’edek.”

And your second question is a valid concern (and I appreciate your candor) - but that is not what the Church teaches. The Church leaves the granting of forgiveness to God (although She is His instrument). So, if the person dies on the way to confession, the Church teaches that because the person had the intent to confess and receive His forgiveness through the sacrament which He established, that God knows that intention and will be God; He is not bound by the ordinary means of our reception of His gifts of grace. The same would hold true, for example, for the person of antiquity (as it happened often with the early Christians) who had the desire to become Christian, but was killed before being baptized for not renouncing their faith in Christ. There is a phrase known for this situation which is called “the baptism of desire” or “baptism of blood.”

Good night,
Kevin

 

[Claire_from_DE]

No offense, my friend, but I don’t see how that answered my question at all. The apologist gives me the impression that if a Catholic dies after committing a mortal sin before confessing it and having it absolved, then he is doomed. I don’t see the sense in that.

Jesus told the apostles ‘whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained’. The apostles ordained others to carry on the priesthood they received from Jesus, which included the power given by the Holy Spirit to forgive sins in Jesus’ name.

Catholics should repent (be sorry and intend to change their ways) of all their sins. They must confess any serious sins to the priest in order to be forgiven. Serious (or mortal) sins are things like idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, murder, abortion, etc., things that break our relationship with God, not just the little things that come from our weakness.

If someone has committed a mortal sin and is on his way to confession and is killed, is he doomed? Maybe not if he has repented and intends to confess. If his contrition (sorrow for sin) is perfect contrition, he is sorry because he offended God who is all good and deserving of all our love, God forgives him. If he’s just sorry because he’s afraid of punishment (imperfect contrition), he’s probably out of luck.

One should implore God to show mercy to us and to give us true sorrow for offending him. There is always the hope of God’s mercy, even if we are unable to get to confession. But Jesus gave us this sacrament so we will be assured of his forgiveness, even if we don’t yet have perfect contrition.

 

[believers]

I’m sorry y’all. I am not and have never been Catholic and words like “reconciliation” and “contrition” seem to not quite make sense to me here since I’m unfamiliar with all the laden connotations.

If you die before being able to confess but had the intention to do so, then God forgives you?

So you don’t really need to go to the priest because God can forgive you anyway, as long as you’re really sorry.

This is what I don’t understand.

Just to clarify… Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Of course I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God. I’m asking about something else though.

Claire said: They must confess any serious sins to the priest in order to be forgiven.

But in fact we’re finding that this isn’t actually the case. God can forgive sins without them being confessed to a priest.

And apparently God has forgiven sins without them being confessed to a priest, right? People of ‘antiquity?’ Right? They didn’t confess–someone mentioned this earlier. So God forgave them.

So He forgave them but He won’t anymore without the priest saying it’s okay first?

 

[BeeSweet]

contrition: sorrow for and detestation of sin with a true purpose of amendment, arising from a love of God for His own perfections (perfect contrition), or from some inferior motive, as fear of divine punishment (imperfect contrition).

reconciliation from the word reconcile: To reestablish a close relationship between.

Without the sacrament, an act of perfect contrition is required. Perfect contrition means you are sorry for your offense to God just because it was offensive to God, and not because of any selfish motive such as fear of eternal damnation. A person truly in love with God would accept eternal damnation willingly for having deliberately offended Him. Perfect contrition is not easy, it takes complete emptying of oneself. A person who is capable of making an act of perfect contrition would most likely not find themselves having committed a mortal sin.

It’s more than just being “really sorry,” it’s about the reasons behind why you’re sorry. Are you sorry because you’re embarrassed, because your pride is hurt? Because you don’t want to suffer? Or are you sorry because it causes you the greatest pain worse than eternal damnation to know that you have offended God? God knows your heart, you can’t hide insincerity from Him. The simple fact that you open yourself up to Him in the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) is enough for Him to know that in spite of yourself and your fallen human nature, you do want to do what is right by Him. If you can’t be bothered, and your sorrow is out of selfish motives, then what business do you have in entering His kingdom?

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I’m sorry y’all. I am not and have never been Catholic and words like “reconciliation” and “contrition” seem to not quite make sense to me here since I’m unfamiliar with all the laden connotations.

If you die before being able to confess but had the intention to do so, then God forgives you?

So you don’t really need to go to the priest because God can forgive you anyway, as long as you’re really sorry.

This is what I don’t understand.

God wants us to confess our sins to a priest. We do it in obedience to God. It makes us humble. God forgives us through the priest. However, of course we should ask God for forgiveness and tell him we are sorry right away, don’t wait for confession! If it’s impossible to get to a priest, God can forgive us anyway. But we have to confess to a priest before we can receive communion again if we commit a mortal sin.

Smaller sins (venial sins) like small lies, stealing something small, gossiping that doesn’t destroy someone’s reputation, cheating on a couple answers on a test, being angry because someone has something that we don’t have, don’t have to be confessed to a priest. If we repent of them we can receive communion without confession. But it is still a good idea to confess them because God gives us special helps, grace, through the sacrament of confession (also called penance or reconciliation) so that we are better able to live a good life and avoid those sins in the future.

 

[Sister_Amy]

All the same…

God can forgive any sin without it being confessed to a priest.

 

[BeeSweet]

All the same…

God can forgive any sin without it being confessed to a priest.

Of course. Luke Ch 1 [37] For with God nothing will be impossible.

 

[kliner]

I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

I don’t understand (go figure) why you have to go to a priest. And seriously… what happens if you die on the way? God won’t forgive you?

Of course I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God. I’m asking about something else though.

Claire said: They must confess any serious sins to the priest in order to be forgiven.

But in fact we’re finding that this isn’t actually the case. God can forgive sins without them being confessed to a priest.

And apparently God has forgiven sins without them being confessed to a priest, right? People of ‘antiquity?’ Right? They didn’t confess–someone mentioned this earlier. So God forgave them.

So He forgave them but He won’t anymore without the priest saying it’s okay first?

Well, I thought it was good night, anyhow .

God can forgive sins without the priest, but the ordinary means, as I mentioned earlier by quoting Scripture with an explanation in this context (and not realizing that you practiced Islam) is that of going to confession which Jesus established for us to use. It is God Who forgives sins, using the priest as His instrument - but don’t forget the ordinary means part - it is *not *insignificant. He established it for a reason.

And this is where knowing that you were Muslim would have helped me to choose my words accordingly (as someone who wouldn’t be as familiar with what I was talking about as another Christian, which is what I assumed - my apologies). For the people of ‘antiquity’ which I mentioned earlier, I did not mean to emphasize that sin was forgiven (though, in the example which I gave, baptism of desire, I would say that it was), but that baptism (of water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) as a requirement for salvation according to Catholic teaching, was “fulfilled” in an extraordinary manner by their desire which was disrupted by their death - their death which was brought about because of their belief.

So, again:

God knows that intention and will be God; He is not bound by the ordinary means of our reception of His gifts of grace.

I think I answered your last question in this response (i.e., what I’m now responding to) a few times in each post.

Kevin

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Here’s another thought… if the priest forgives you then do you have to actually ask God to forgive you too?

Yes. In confession, you have to say out loud an ‘act of contrition’ in which you tell God that you’re sorry. You can do this in your own words or you can say a prayer like this:

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended You because I fear your just punishments, but most of all because I have offended you who are all good and worthy of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of your grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasions of sin.

Just confessing your sins isn’t enough. You also have to be sorry for them and determine to try not to do them in the future. And if you have stolen something or hurt someone you have to try to repay it or make amends in some way.