I
ibkc
Guest
What if we are not Muslim?
- Status
C
c659smith
Guest
I do not think Sister Amy will be back here for awhile. Unless she is going to re-cant her statement and remain true to the Islamic faith.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
How do Muslims get to heaven? Easy. God forgives them and admits them to Paradise.
How do people who aren’t Muslim get to heaven according to Islam? Same way–if God forgives them and admits them. So do non-Muslims get into heaven? Depends on the reason they weren’t Muslim.
Let me reiterate that Muslims believe God is Just, and God is Merciful–two attributes which are complementary, not contradictory. And Muslims believe God has called us to believe in Him, and submit to His will–that is the path. To do otherwise, deliberately and knowingly–that would be disobedience to God…
How do people who aren’t Muslim get to heaven according to Islam? Same way–if God forgives them and admits them. So do non-Muslims get into heaven? Depends on the reason they weren’t Muslim.
Let me reiterate that Muslims believe God is Just, and God is Merciful–two attributes which are complementary, not contradictory. And Muslims believe God has called us to believe in Him, and submit to His will–that is the path. To do otherwise, deliberately and knowingly–that would be disobedience to God…
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Recant what statement?
K
kliner
Guest
I think the Catholic position as posted not only by me, but several others, has been explained well enough for you not to say “turn directly to God in sincere repentance and expect the best from Him alone.” Now, I’m not at all expecting for you to drop your beliefs because of what has been said here - but I do think that MarcoPolo had a point in saying that you appear to be coming here with pre-molded beliefs, not really open to listening, but only sampling for what will justify what you already think. I say this because you have several times ignored what has been said (in several different ways) about God established this + for a reason (both sides of the + are important read on their own and together).
So, essentially, for us, going “directly to God for forgiveness” is going through the priest whom He gave to us for this reason (not ignoring what I have previously written on this matter with regard to God). We believe that our God became flesh - this is no unimportant matter either. We are (no matter how hard we try to escape it) material creatures who depend very heavily on what we experience. Things that we experience have the ability to touch us very deeply; when I see a sunset, when I hear beautiful music, when I touch a person who I am close to, when I smell the aroma of a rose, when I taste delicately prepared food. These things are very important to us, so important that they fill our lives every day - and who knows this better than God? In the same manner, when I see the priest (whose office God Himself has established), raising his hands over my head, and hear him pray the words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” I know that my sin is wiped clean (for God Himself promised and established this of which I speak) and am freed and strengthened once again.
Now, I think it is important to ask the question: how many people do not get to have this experience? How many people walk around with their guilt deep in their heart for whatever and however many offenses they have committed and never have or take the opportunity to “confess” them to someone? I bet that a good many people who do what you speak of, going “directly to God,” still walk around with this weight on their heart, unsure of their forgiveness and still weighed down by what God wants to free them from.
We are going directly to God, in confession and out of confession, for forgiveness.
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
According to tomshaikh THE JUDGEMENT DAY will not be good for Christians. So, do Muslims believe two different things? Who’s right?
Peace…
MW
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
Oh, I know. I didn’t really expect you to. We can all directly go to God in sincere repentance. What you fail to take away from this thread (and has oft been repeated), the church is God’s presence on earth. Jesus founded it. The Christian church is the representative of Christ on earth, Christ is the representative of God the Father.
You don’t like the idea of going through Jesus or the church, but find it okay to follow a so called prophet and believe that he alone has the final message for mankind and wrote his holy book which you believe are the words of Allah. So, whether you can admit it or not, you follow a man-made religion. Christians follow a Divine religion given us by Christ Himself.
Peace…
MW
C
c659smith
Guest
But Sister Amy the Messiah for you has not come yet and there is no path is that not true?
But the Islamic Faith states we are all infidels (non believers) in the eyes of Allah are we not?
In the Hadith, which are regarded almost as important as the Koran, there is quite unabashed reference to Muhammad as a slave owner. He is even held as an exemplar in this regard. Both the Koran and the Hadith are treated extremely reverentially by Muslims and there is always the cry of “Back to the Koran and Hadith” whenever enterprising theologians try to give an altered meaning. That is why we have to look at the attitude to slavery as shown in these two primary sources of Islam.
9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
9.73: O Prophet! strive hard [make war] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
Is the above not from the Koran? that all non believers of Islam there destination is hell
C
c659smith
Guest
Can a person not of the Islamic faith get to heaven?
K
kliner
Guest
This is a response to all who have been drifting to the Muslim beliefs questions: please start a new thread. This one is about forgiveness. Please don’t risk mixing the two and losing both of them.
Thanks,
Kevin
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Of course I had a premolded belief. I know what I believe, and I didn’t ask the question for you or anyone to change what I believe, but just to tell me what you believe. So when I say I don’t believe that, it’s not as an insult. I can turn directly to God in sincere repentance, and I do expect the best from Him alone. If you do or if you don’t, it’s your own business.
C
c659smith
Guest
Originally Posted by Sister Amy
I believe that God is Just, and Oft-Forgiving, that God loves to forgive us, and that He does not burden a soul with more than it can bear.
So I do not believe in any way shape or form and have read the Koran and the hadith that Mohammed was a prophet.
Am I going to heaven. Will God forgive me according to Islamic teachings.
Foir I have not sinned aganist Allah but not believed in one of His prophets.
God-Allah-Father–etc…
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
This thread is about forgiveness in the Christian faith and it was brought up by the OP about the difference in the Christian and Muslim belief in forgiveness and whether or not non-Muslims can be forgiven and obtain paradise from Allah. I don’t see how they are not related.
Maybe you should ask to be a moderator MW
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Easy, easy, easy… no need to attack me or Islam. My faith, my religion, is not named after any man, but is named by the act it entails–which is submission to God’s will. By its very definition it is a religion revealed by God. The same as the religion of Abraham–belief in God and submission to God.
C
c659smith
Guest
I am still awaiting my answer from Sister Amy “can God forgive me and you maintain your beliefs”.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Messiah for me? There is one Messiah in Islam, and his name is Issa (Jesus) the son of Mary. The path of Islam was the same for Jesus as it is for me–submission to God, obedience to God.
All of who? Do you believe, or do you disbelieve?
True–and Anas who was a servant in the house said that Muhammad never hit a woman, or a slave, never even said a word of discontent or frustration.
Slavery has nothing to do with this topic at all… but you should know that one of the most meritorious deeds in Islam is to free a slave.
You might not know that the name of the surah which you cite, is called At-Tawba–The Repentance. That’s what it means. Subhaanallah, I bet you didn’t even know that.
The Qur’an allows the Muslims to fight against the kuffaar and the munaafiqoon–the enemies of Islam. Today people don’t know who the hypocrites (munafiqoon) are, and the command to fight disbelievers only applies if a) they are attacking Muslims or b) oppressing people in their own land.
K
kliner
Guest
My point was that you left it (“ordinary means”) out each time it was mentioned by a responder. In a few of your posts, it appears that you directly avoided that aspect of it, e.g. (among others):
which in turn appears that you are not trying to learn what the Church teaches, but what you want to keep about what the Church teaches and ignoring what we have been emphasizing as important to that teaching.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Depends.
It’s not up to me to decide who goes to heaven and who doesn’t. There are examples of people who would get to heaven who weren’t Muslim. Not everyone who isn’t Muslim, for example, actually rejected Islam–some people never heard about it. If they never heard about it, then Muslims believe they will be tested by God on the Day of Judgment.God is Just, that’s the principle.
So I can’t say at all whether one group of people is going to heaven or not–even I don’t know if I will go. I do believe that God is Just and that everyone will get what they earned.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
I don’t know if you’re going to heaven or not. It’s not up to me. But in fact, according to Islam, rejecting or denying one of God’s prophets is equivalent to denying all of them, and to disbelieving in God. So to disbelieve in one prophet is a sin against God.
C
c659smith
Guest
Yes I did know what you stated but contradictions are there and what would you define as their own land is that not the world? This is not pure.Messiah for me? There is one Messiah in Islam, and his name is Issa (Jesus) the son of Mary. The path of Islam was the same for Jesus as it is for me–submission to God, obedience to God.
All of who? Do you believe, or do you disbelieve?
True–and Anas who was a servant in the house said that Muhammad never hit a woman, or a slave, never even said a word of discontent or frustration.
Slavery has nothing to do with this topic at all… but you should know that one of the most meritorious deeds in Islam is to free a slave.
You might not know that the name of the surah which you cite, is called At-Tawba–The Repentance. That’s what it means. Subhaanallah, I bet you didn’t even know that.
Today’s Islamic States for instance and their harsh laws.
Love is a keynote of Christianity that Islam lacks. In the words of one Muslim convert to Christianity, “Christianity is a religion of love; Islam is a religion of fear.” Muslims do not have the kind of loving, intimate relationship with God that Christians do. how much I love God and want to share with you in the feeling of God’s love and forgiveness
- Status