Question about Iglesia Ni Cristo [Church of Christ]

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ETE said:
Existence is the issue, in the term: I AM was before Abraham.

And not the God’s name “I AM” that was given to Moses in the wilderness…is what he is referring to.

For the Jews, Jesus claiming he is the “Son of God” is a blasphemous declaration…for them the terms means Jesus is equating himself to God, but is it true?

Well we both know that it is false.
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You have just given me two very interesting takes on those quotes.

Please read all of the passages involved. When Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I am,” the Jews responded that he could not have known Abraham. They understood good and well what he meant by that. He was saying that he was God. It is the same as when he said that if you know him, you know the Father, as they are God.

If Jesus was not saying that he was God with either case, why did he not once correct them? Why did he not say “I am but a prophet?” Further, in Revelation Jesus refers to himself as the Alpha and the Omega, he who is eternal. These are God terms.

Also, John’s Gospel begins with the statement that Jesus, the Word made Flesh, is God.

No, it is there.
 
ETE said:
When did the seven ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church affirm it? Give me the first date of the council meeting.
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The First Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. - if you deny the First Council of Nicea you must also deny the following councils and the Canon of the Bible. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
 
ETE said:
In the court of law, presumptive notions has no value, but facts and evidence will make a case believable and true.

Prove that what we stand for is un-biblical, if you do not, then it will not stand my friend.😉
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Scripture is clear and unambigous that Jesus was not just a man but is God.

**John 1:1-2, 14-15, 34 **

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.
John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”

Now I have seen and testified that he is the Son of God."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

John 10:30
“The Father and I are one.”

John 20: 28
Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
 
Church of Christ? The American one too? If so, don’t yall believe your the only one’s going to heaven?
 
ChristianKnight said:
Church of Christ? The American one too? If so, don’t yall believe your the only one’s going to heaven?
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Whoa now. The Church of Christ in the United States has absolutely nothing to do with the Iglesia Ni Cristo. I have been Church of Christ in the United States all of my life. The confusion probably comes from the fact that the Spanish translation for Church of Christ is Iglesia de Cristo. The gap between Church of Christ and Iglesia Ni Cristo is probably as great as the gap between Islam and Hindu.

The Church of Christ fully accepts the divinity of Jesus. I even once heard a Church of Christ preacher say in a sermon about the Trinity, “The Catholic Church is 100% correct on its teachings on the Trinity.” We have the exact same beliefs as the Catholic Church when it comes to the Trinity.

Oh and the most Church of Christ members do not think we are the only ones going to heaven. That would totally contradict history. The breed of Church of Christ that thinks we are the only ones going to heaven is quickly dying off.
 
ETE said:
When did the seven ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church affirm it? Give me the first date of the council meeting.
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the first council of nicea was held in 325 AD. was the founder of iglesia ni cristo present in that meeting? just curious!!!
 
ETE said:
Iglesia Ni Cristo was re-established in July 27, 1914 in the Philippines.

Anyone who would like to ask question regarding our faith, please do so and I will gladly answer them…Thanks.

Make it civil and in order:)
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The problem you will experience with all true Christians is that yours is yet another “restoration” church which cannot identify exactly when the gates of hell prevailed against Christ’s church. The very concept being 100% against scripture. It’s command structure is distinctly secretive, which smacks of so many other cults that cropped up in the 1800s and early 1900s.

We admire any and all zeal you have, but we also realize that, like LDS, Yahweh’s Witnesses and all the others, the spirit of antichrist greatly mislead the founders.
 
ETE said:
Iglesia Ni Cristo was re-established in July 27, 1914 in the Philippines.

Anyone who would like to ask question regarding our faith, please do so and I will gladly answer them…Thanks.

Make it civil and in order.🙂
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What do you mean by “re-established”? And by whom? How???

We aren’t talking about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church here, are we?
 
My friend was once a member of Iglesia Ni Cristo. She now attends a non-denominational church, but the effects of all those years in INC still shows. She’s still uncertain about the Trinity, and the Divinity of Christ, even though her current church affirms these two important doctrines of Christianity.

You might find the following article interesting here.
 
BMCD said:
Whoa now. The Church of Christ in the United States has absolutely nothing to do with the Iglesia Ni Cristo. I have been Church of Christ in the United States all of my life. The confusion probably comes from the fact that the Spanish translation for Church of Christ is Iglesia de Cristo. The gap between Church of Christ and Iglesia Ni Cristo is probably as great as the gap between Islam and Hindu.

The Church of Christ fully accepts the divinity of Jesus. I even once heard a Church of Christ preacher say in a sermon about the Trinity, “The Catholic Church is 100% correct on its teachings on the Trinity.” We have the exact same beliefs as the Catholic Church when it comes to the Trinity.

Oh and the most Church of Christ members do not think we are the only ones going to heaven. That would totally contradict history. The breed of Church of Christ that thinks we are the only ones going to heaven is quickly dying off.
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k just wondering.
 
ChristianKnight said:
Church of Christ? The American one too? If so, don’t yall believe your the only one’s going to heaven?
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if you do a wikipedia search for the spanish word you can see what they are about.

members kidnapping, torturing and killing college students. shooting US marines. assaulting priests.
 
ralphinal said:
You have just given me two very interesting takes on those quotes.

Please read all of the passages involved. When Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I am,” the Jews responded that he could not have known Abraham. They understood good and well what he meant by that. He was saying that he was God. It is the same as when he said that if you know him, you know the Father, as they are God.
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Based on context, the Jews never in anyways understood Jesus meant he is God, instead they said: 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

“Existence” was the point of arguments, on how could it be possible for Jesus to exist before Abraham…based on physical reality which the Jews point of arguments.

But the truth of the matter is, Jesus was in existence before Abraham, why so? since in the beginning Jesus was with God [John 1:1]…therefore Jesus is correct and the Jews has no idea on what Jesus told them.
ralphinal said:
If Jesus was not saying that he was God with either case, why did he not once correct them? Why did he not say “I am but a prophet?” Further, in Revelation Jesus refers to himself as the Alpha and the Omega, he who is eternal. These are God terms.

Also, John’s Gospel begins with the statement that Jesus, the Word made Flesh, is God.

No, it is there.
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Because there nothing to correct, take note: “existence” was the issues and not Jesus diety. The Jews never ever dream that God will become Man, instead what they are waiting for is the coming of the MESSIAH, the Savior of Israel…by which they keep on waiting until now…ask the Jews, whom they are waiting for…and ask if it is God, or the Messiah…the anointed one.

Also, not because both God and Jesus utters the same phrases, “I am the Alpha and the Omega” then both are gods…that is not a logical conclusion my friend.

But history will tell us the beginning of Jesus is God concept…and you will be surprised that it came out first in the early second century when the old guards [Apostles and Elders] of the Church are long gone.

Who started it? a gentile convert in Christianity name Ignatius, a bishop of Antioch, whose former beliefs was God can became man…the gods and godesses of the Greeks.
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
The First Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. - if you deny the First Council of Nicea you must also deny the following councils and the Canon of the Bible. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
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I see, so Jesus diety was affirmed first in 325 AD in the Council that was set up by Emperor Constantine in Nicea, right?

Why did they affirm or confirmed that Jesus is God? Was the Apostles short of informing the Christians regarding the gospel that JESUS IS GOD? or the first century Christians never heard such doctrines, that’s why in 325AD an article of faith for the entire Catholics was affirmed that Jesus is God?

For how long does the Council of Nicea debated the issues of if JESUS IS GOD or NOT?
 
The first verse is from John’s Gospel. Please note that that was NOT written by Ignatius. None of these passages were.

Exstance is the issue with the first quotes that I wrote. How did Jesus exist before anyone else? There is only One eternal One. To claim equality with God, which Jesus did, is to claim to be God. That is what equal means, the same as.

Yes, the Jews did not and do not now look for God made man. Does that mean that it is not possible?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
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Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
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Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
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1 John 1:1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life–
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1 John 1:2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us–
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Jonathan_Cid said:
You have the verse regarding Thomas. Pick up your Bible and read it for yourself, if you ever do.
19 Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. 20 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.
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First, the verses does not in anyways tells us that JESUS IS GOD except the utterances of the resurrection unbeliever and doubting Thomas…which is one of your only hope in proving Jesus is God.

That’s why I asked you based on almost three years missionary campaigned by Jesus with Thomas one of the twelve Apostles,

on who is the TRUE AND ONLY ONE GOD he believed in which he shared to the people while he was preaching the gospel in Israel before John 20:28 scenario?

Did they [Jesus and the twelve] ever mention JESUS IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD? If Yes what verse? if NO, why would Thomas suddenly change the course of his faith which he has not established before the resurrection of Jesus?

What instigate Thomas to say JESUS IS HIS LORD AND GOD? Which is against what they had preached to the Jews?
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cath2lic4ever said:
the first council of nicea was held in 325 AD. was the founder of iglesia ni cristo present in that meeting? just curious!!!
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Of course not, but you can set up a thread and I will discuss that issues with you if you like.
 
ETE said:
Of course not, but you can set up a thread and I will discuss that issues with you if you like.
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no need to discuss any further, i am only interested in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church which is the catholic church that JESUS founded. anything else i don’t consider a religion. period!!!
 
ETE said:
I see, so Jesus diety was affirmed first in 325 AD in the Council that was set up by Emperor Constantine in Nicea, right?

Why did they affirm or confirmed that Jesus is God? Was the Apostles short of informing the Christians regarding the gospel that JESUS IS GOD? or the first century Christians never heard such doctrines, that’s why in 325AD an article of faith for the entire Catholics was affirmed that Jesus is God?

For how long does the Council of Nicea debated the issues of if JESUS IS GOD or NOT?
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The Arians were teaching that Jesus was not God. Just the Arians were teaching that Jesus was merely a man, directly in contradiction of Catholicism (Christianity) and the Scriptures. The Divinity of Christ is so central to Christianity that the Council of Nicea, the Church of Jesus Christ, rebuked Arianism.

The First Council of Nicea was not the only council to affirm Christ’s Divinity - multiple councils did so following it. If you reject the very undisputed ecumenical councils of the Church, why not the councils defining the canon of the Bible?

Furthermore, if Jesus was merely human, why name your “church” after him? If you can name it after a human, why not after your founder? Why not “the Church of some guy in the Philipines”? Why not the Church of God? After all, the Church should belong to God, no? Not just men? A church should reflect the one which it worships, no? Not just be a cult of personality?
 
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