Question about Iglesia Ni Cristo [Church of Christ]

[Chaldean_Rite]

Can you give us a few names of people you claim are “Christians” who deny that Jesus is God who lived around the time of the Apostles or say, anyone before 1000 AD.

We are waiting.

 

[ETE]

ETE;4017420:

325AD is the first historical event where JESUS BECAME OFFICIALLY GOD, but before that time he was NOT [officially from 110AD till 325AD]…or else why proclaimed an article of Faith that JESUS IS GOD if that article of faith was existing?I think you need to really sit down and think this one over…

What did St. Thomas say after the Ressurection?

“My Lord and my God”

The question is, before Jesus resurrection, what did Jesus and his Apostles including Thomas preached in almost three years missionary campaign as part of the gospel for salvation on who should the people understand as THE ONLY TRUE GOD? Is it Jesus? or NOT? If he is, then where can we read it?

Take note: John 20:28 is an abrupt incident by which Thomas is an unbeliever of Jesus resurrection.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

The question is, before Jesus resurrection, what did Jesus and his Apostles including Thomas preached in almost three years missionary campaign as part of the gospel for salvation on who should the people understand as THE ONLY TRUE GOD? Is it Jesus? or NOT? If he is, then where can we read it?

Take note: John 20:28 is an abrupt incident by which Thomas is an unbeliever of Jesus resurrection.

Wow, you really are in your own world. I will ask the Virgin, Mother of God to pray for your soul.

 

[ETE]

yes ETE you presume right. We know what we believe, we believe that Jesus is God. Believe what you want. I dont’ care.

You believe that Jesus is God, but Jesus believe HE HAS A GOD…which is also the God I believe in.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’ "

So who is the ONLY TRUE GOD now?

Jesus? or the God of Jesus?

That is so very basic not to comprehend my friend.

 

[ETE]

Wow, you really are in your own world. I will ask the Virgin, Mother of God to pray for your soul.

But where is Mary? Is he in heaven? That is what I want you to prove to make it believable

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

You believe that Jesus is God, but Jesus believe HE HAS A GOD…which is also the God I believe in.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’ "

So who is the ONLY TRUE GOD now?

Jesus? or the God of Jesus?

That is so very basic not to comprehend my friend.

In case you forgot, Jesus has two natures: one human and one divine. In this case, he is speaking from His adorable human nature.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

But where is Mary? Is he in heaven? That is what I want you to prove to make it believable

You don’t believe in the Mother of God is in Heaven? How poor do you understand Our Lord and Our Lady?

 

[ETE]

Can you give us a few names of people you claim are “Christians” who deny that Jesus is God who lived around the time of the Apostles or say, anyone before 1000 AD.

We are waiting.

Israel, Jesus, the Apostles and the first century Christians and Arius and his followers. Btw, are they NOT CHRISTIANS?

And do you know how much lives perished due to the believe that JESUS IS NOT GOD?

So many to mentioned based on history.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Israel, Jesus, the Apostles and the first century Christians and Arius and his followers. Btw, are they NOT CHRISTIANS?

And do you know how much lives perished due to the believe that JESUS IS NOT GOD?

So many to mentioned based on history.

Arius lol. Oh man, I am done here. Clearly, you are either in need of reading comprehension help or are just trolling. I don’t know, but I will pray for your soul, nevertheless.

St. Joseph, choosen father of Jesus, pray for ETE.

 

[ralphinal]

I have seen you ask for proof that you are wrong. We have put forth alternatives to your assertion. We have asked for more evidence that supports your claims. You have offered one man’s opinion. You cannot show us multiple scholars with this view. It flies in the face of 2000 years of theology and history.

Please either give us more scholars that agree and some Christians from the early second century that do as well.

 

[ETE]

You don’t believe in the Mother of God is in Heaven? How poor do you understand Our Lord and Our Lady?

My friend, I wish I could educate you biblically, cause it can help you understand what faith do you have.

Mary is NOT IN HEAVEN, that is a myth an illusion perpetrated by the Catholic Church…what is the proof?

All dead at the moment are still dead or sleeping and will not be awaken not until the heavens are no more…including Mary, the Mother of Jesus.

Job 14:12 people die, never to rise. They will never wake up while the sky endures; they will never stir from their sleep.

 

[ETE]

Arius lol. Oh man, I am done here. Clearly, you are either in need of reading comprehension help or are just trolling. I don’t know, but I will pray for your soul, nevertheless.

St. Joseph, choosen father of Jesus, pray for ETE.

Well historical ignorance is futile.

Btw, where is Joseph? It seems that you have no idea where he is?

 

[ETE]

I have seen you ask for proof that you are wrong. We have put forth alternatives to your assertion. We have asked for more evidence that supports your claims. You have offered one man’s opinion. You cannot show us multiple scholars with this view. It flies in the face of 2000 years of theology and history.

Please either give us more scholars that agree and some Christians from the early second century that do as well.

I gave you lots of evidence, even from your own book…maybe, you are not looking for evidence, why not research for the history and find it for yourself and compare if those theologians and scholars historical assertion valid or not.

Don;t look for excuses…instead for the truth.

 

[ferdie]

I’ll make it simple for you…cause it seems to me that you are having a hard understanding simple argument.

Does God allow Man to carve an IMAGE to represent him? Does he allow man to bow down and worship images nor serve them?

Exodus 20:5 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness [of anything] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth; You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

It is not the carving of the image itself that is prohibited, but the carving of an image with the purpose of worshiping it.

 

[ferdie]

Can’t you tell me if this arrangement between you and your wife acceptable?

Let say your wife sleeps with another man, and perform sexual activity and what she is doing is for your honor, veneration and glory though he is on top of another man, then it is okay with you?

It will not bother you right?

Anyways, the man he is having sex with is not in her mind no matter what they will do, instead it is you that is in her mind while performing such sexual activity…and you must agree with me, since it can be done with your god, and you are not thinking the images wherein the action of worship is being rendered, anyways it is for god, the action of worship and bowing down that you rendered in those images…right?

I need a clean cut answer.

This is a bad analogy since we are not in the same page with the use of the word “worship”. We must agree first how the word “worship” is used in different situations.

 

[ferdie]

I see, then Catholic Church violated God’s commandments right?

No. It has been explained to you but your are not listening.

CATHECHISM OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
No. 3 in conformity with the decrees of the Plenary Council and the code of 1918.
Nihil obstat: A.G Casas, Censor Librorum, Imprimatur: Rufino J. Santos, D.D., Archbishop of Manila. De La Salle College. Brothers of the Christian Schools, Manila Philippines, 1955.

p.13
13. “Is the worship of the saints confined to their persons?

No; it extends also to their relics and images”

p. 95
“15. Ought we to worship holy images?

“We should have, particularly in our churches, images of Our Lord, as also the Virgin Mary and the saints, and we should pay them due honor and venerations.”

Once the word worship appears and applies to images, the person himself is an idol/image worshiper.

Again no. You have to understand how we use the word “worship”. Did we use it to mean Latria, Dulia, or Hyperdulia. Remember. context, context and context. You can’t just slice it and make it appear what you wanted it to appear.

You cannot read in any letter of John implying Jesus deity nor in a straight forward manner of statements saying JESUS IS GOD, and why not if Jesus is God? That’s obvious right?

There are so many passages in the scriptures that says Jesus is our Lord and our God. You have to read the scriptures the way the early church read it and understood it. Remember that the early church used Tradition and the guidedance of the early Bishops to understand the scriptures. They didn’'t just read it and then interpret it for themselves. They were always guided by the church who is guided by the Holy Spirit as promised by our Lord. They knew better not to privately interpret it as told by ST. Peter.

Secondly, YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION…

to whom and where does those teachings came from? Christians to be an IMAGE WORSHIPERS? For sure Jesus and his Apostles did not teach that…right?

Did John write the Christians to be an image/idol worshipers?

Although your question is misleading, I still answered it. But you are not listening, you like me to answer the way you wanted me to answer your question.
And who says they are legend? All you have to do is read a Christian history book. You will learn the background of these heretics and what led them to teach heretical views. You will learn how the ECF handled these heretics. What sources, methods they used to silence these hertics. It is a must for you to read christian history books, since what you are doing here is regurgitating your minister’s teaching.

 

[ralphinal]

I gave you lots of evidence, even from your own book…maybe, you are not looking for evidence, why not research for the history and find it for yourself and compare if those theologians and scholars historical assertion valid or not.

Don;t look for excuses…instead for the truth.

I have googled this stuff that you put up here, and all I get is this thread.

Honestly, there is no reason to look further. You are a member of a cult started by a man. Bye

 

[ferdie]

Ferdi, you are not paying attention to my questions.

Who commanded the Catholics to worship images?

The heretics that left the church? or the church itself?

CATHECHISM OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
No. 3 in conformity with the decrees of the Plenary Council and the code of 1918.
Nihil obstat: A.G Casas, Censor Librorum, Imprimatur: Rufino J. Santos, D.D., Archbishop of Manila. De La Salle College. Brothers of the Christian Schools, Manila Philippines, 1955.

p.13
13. “Is the worship of the saints confined to their persons?

No; it extends also to their relics and images”

p. 95
“15. Ought we to worship holy images?

“We should have, particularly in our churches, images of Our Lord, as also the Virgin Mary and the saints, and we should pay them due honor and venerations.”

Actually, unlike you, I am paying attention. You are forcing your interpretation of the word " worship" on me. Like the energizer bunny, you just keep and going and going and going, in misinterpreting how we use the word "worship.

 

[ferdie]

You mean Christians after 110AD? History tells us that it started on that date when JESUS IS GOD doctrine appears.

SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY. Augustus Hopkins String, D.D. Three Volumes in One, Philadelphia. The Judson Press Chicago. Kansas City, Los Angeles, Seattle. Copyright by Augustus Hopkins Strong. 1907

p. 305
“The earliest time known at which Jesus was deified was after the New Testament writers. In The letters of Ignatius, at the beginning of the second century.”

He is talking about these people:
When you follow the** bishops** you follow the Apostles, when you follow the Apostles, you follow Christ, when you follow Christ, you follow the Father who sent Him.
As what Jesus said, He who listens to you listens to me, and he who listens to me, listens to the Father who sent me. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.

"That doctrines is evidently true which was first delivered: on the contrary, that is false which is of a later date. This maxim stands immovable against the attempts of all late heresies. Let such then produce the origin of their churches: let them show the succesion of their Bishops from the
Apostles, or their disciples… If this is so, it is plain, as we have said, that heretics are not to be allowed to appeal to Scripture, since they have no claim to it. Hence it is proper to address them as follows:- Who are you?Whence do you come? What business have you strangers with my property? By what right are you Marcion** (Manalo)** felling my trees? By what authority are you, Valentin,** (Manalo) **turning the course of my stream? Under what pretence are you, Appeles, (Manalo) removing my landmarks? The estate is mine: I have the ancient, the prior possession of it. I have the title deeds delivered to me by the original proprietors. I am the heir of the Apostles; they have made their will in my favour; while they disinherited and cast you off, as strangers and enemies."
Tertullian, 260-220 A.D.
de Praes, Haeres, xxxvi, xxx

 

[ferdie]

The question is, before Jesus resurrection, what did Jesus and his Apostles including Thomas preached in almost three years missionary campaign as part of the gospel for salvation on who should the people understand as THE ONLY TRUE GOD? Is it Jesus? or NOT? If he is, then where can we read it?

Take note: John 20:28 is an abrupt incident by which Thomas is an unbeliever of Jesus resurrection.

That’s it?