Question about Ireland vote on same sex marriage

[friardchips]

Education.
The Church in Ireland does little, VERY little to educate it’s youth in the faith. It’s been assumed for decades that the faithful will show up and follow church teaching based on a once a week homily.
Until the Church in Ireland places an emphasis on educating the faithful, particularly the young people, they can’t be too surprised that secularism came in and stole the faith of a nation right from under their noses.
It’s the same thing that happens here, although parents here see no need for religious ed. Not when soccer beckons. Or ballet classes, or Lacrosse. Or Scouting.
People have their priorities out of whack They are content to allow celebrities and the media teach their children, then decry the outcome after the fact.
Wake up people! Everyone is responsible for this.
:twocents:

 

[Memaw]

Thanks, all. Very insightful replies.

Clare, it sounds like what you mentioned about the RCC getting out of the marriage business as in Mexico may be what happens in the future in other countries as well if push comes to shove. I could see that happening in order for the RCC to not compromise its beliefs.

Thanks for sharing that, by the way. I wasn’t aware that was the case.

I wonder if it would become necessary for the Church to do Church weddings without the civil license. Like it used to do in the “Good ole Days.” God Bless, Memaw

 

[Smfm]

There are those who are off the rails for years making priests of women & I’m sure they’ll marry same sex people, the Church can never approve of such abominations !

 

[Ignatius]

Education.
The Church in Ireland does little, VERY little to educate it’s youth in the faith. It’s been assumed for decades that the faithful will show up and follow church teaching based on a once a week homily.
Until the Church in Ireland places an emphasis on educating the faithful, particularly the young people, they can’t be too surprised that secularism came in and stole the faith of a nation right from under their noses.

I am usually in agreement with you, but I have to disagree in this case.

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin told the Irish Times “most of those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.”
lifesitenews.com/opinion/marriage-hasnt-changed.-ireland-has

Before the election Bishop of Derry Donal McKeown indicated that it was possible for Catholics to back gay ‘marriage’ in good conscience. He said “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote Yes, and that’s entirely up them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
lifesitenews.com/news/irish-bishop-catholics-can-back-gay-marriage-in-good-conscience

 

[Memaw]

The Roman Catholic Church needs to form a contemporary Holy Crusade, in the form of intensive education, and very quickly. Not sure the New Evangelisation is big and strong enough, yet, as this needs to be a war of love, an intensive one of faith.

And because there are those who don’t respect reason, this needs to comprise of a strong loving devotion, in the form of prayers, to Our Lady. Think of Don Juan (although, his was a physical battle). This is, not the War of the Roses, but the War of the Rosary. At the heart of all this evil, all this sin - gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia etc…- is a lack of compassion, a lack of respect for life, and especially, a lack of love for the vulnerable. IOW,** PRIDE**. Fortunately, Our Lady is the protecting Mother of those who go to her - she is Advocate to her Son, especially for Christians, with a heart for the most vulnerable.

AMEN, Study what the Blessed Mother said at Fatima, but get the true story from the World Apostolate of Fatima, Vatican appointed. God Bless, Memaw

 

[pianistclare]

I am usually in agreement with you, but I have to disagree in this case.

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin told the Irish Times “most of those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.”
lifesitenews.com/opinion/marriage-hasnt-changed.-ireland-has

Before the election Bishop of Derry Donal McKeown indicated that it was possible for Catholics to back gay ‘marriage’ in good conscience. He said “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote Yes, and that’s entirely up them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
lifesitenews.com/news/irish-bishop-catholics-can-back-gay-marriage-in-good-conscience

I’m not talking about Catholic school kids. I’m talking about the ones who DON’T go. And their parents. There are no continuing ed classes in the churches.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Interesting point placing the impetus on “individual bishops” to resist to the point of martyrdom.

I’d like to know, who feels so strongly about it, they themselves can with conviction make the claim that they would resist any governmental interference with Church teachings to the point of martyrdom.

Idealistically I would like to say I would, but in all honesty, I’m not sure I could.

Until I could, I think it very presumptuous to expect someone else, (bishops included) to do it.

What say the room?

people really think–this is going to be a capital crime–and that our priests and bishops won’t simply be jailed?

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Smfm]

Before the election Bishop of Derry Donal McKeown indicated that it was possible for Catholics to back gay ‘marriage’ in good conscience. He said “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote Yes, and that’s entirely up them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
lifesitenews.com/news/irish-bishop-catholics-can-back-gay-marriage-in-good-conscience

Disgraceful, if it’s not right, it’s wrong, & gay marriage is an abomination to God Almighty !

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks to all for the good discussion and insights. I’m very glad the Catholic Church won’t be able to be coerced into doing something against one of its key tenets of faith.

Also, thanks for helping me better understand the different social aspects in Ireland that come into play that would explain why such a predominantly Catholic country would vote in favor of such a measure.

 

[LittleFlower378]

While I agree with you and admire the fervency and passion of your stand, the 62-38% vote margin in a predominantly Catholic country indicates that a lot of Catholics voted for the referendum for gay marriage. I am trying to better understand why would that happen in a country that is over 84% Catholic according to a Pew Survey. Does anyone have any ideas on that? That really stunned me.

I figured the referendum would fail based on the large Roman Catholic population combined with Catholic teaching on the subject, with which I agree, by the way.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

In the news piece I heard, only one district out of 43 in Ireland voted against the referendum, and that was a rural district with high church attendance. That makes me think that Ireland has sadly become very liberal and secular in its views on social issues, but that is just conjecture on my part.

The damage done to the Church and society is happening from within the Church. People and Catholics are be baffled by the SSM argument and have no response and are siding with the opposing agenda. The people of the Catholic Church are not informed on the documents and what the Church teaches on thus issue. We need in depth study and presentation and it starts with the Church hierarchy. The attack on the Church will soon have another glibal issue where people against yhe Church will use false reason to pick apart the fauthfull, hopefully we will be more prepared.

 

[Ignatius]

"PianistClair:

I am usually in agreement with you, but I have to disagree in this case.

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin told the Irish Times “most of those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.”
lifesitenews.com/opinion/marriage-hasnt-changed.-ireland-has

Before the election Bishop of Derry Donal McKeown indicated that it was possible for Catholics to back gay ‘marriage’ in good conscience. He said “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote Yes, and that’s entirely up them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
lifesitenews.com/news/irish-bishop-catholics-can-back-gay-marriage-in-good-conscience

I’m not talking about Catholic school kids. I’m talking about the ones who DON’T go. And their parents. There are no continuing ed classes in the churches.

That’s who Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is referring to as well. It wasn’t those who didn’t attend Catholic Schools who put it over 65% in favor. Note the Bishop pointed out that the vast majority of *"those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.” *

IOW, the Bishop said it is those who attended the Catholic Schools who got it passed.

 

[Ignatius]

"PianistClair:

I am usually in agreement with you, but I have to disagree in this case.

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin told the Irish Times “most of those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.”
lifesitenews.com/opinion/marriage-hasnt-changed.-ireland-has

Before the election Bishop of Derry Donal McKeown indicated that it was possible for Catholics to back gay ‘marriage’ in good conscience. He said “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote Yes, and that’s entirely up them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
lifesitenews.com/news/irish-bishop-catholics-can-back-gay-marriage-in-good-conscience

****I’m not talking about Catholic school kids. I’m talking about the ones who DON’T go. And their parents. ****

That’s who Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is referring to as well. It wasn’t those who didn’t attend Catholic Schools who put it over 65% in favor. Note the Bishop pointed out that the vast majority of *"those people who voted yes are products of our Catholic schools for 12 years.” *

IOW, the Bishop said it is those who attended the Catholic Schools who got it passed.

 

[Ignatius]

Don’t be ridiculous. .

It is not ridiculous according to constitutional scholars. Actually, If the Supreme Court rules that same-sex “marriage” is a constitutional right,the government could force clergy of all denominations to perform gay “weddings”. So priests, ministers, rabbis, and imams will be required to perform such ceremonies – regardless of their religious beliefs – or face state penalties or jail.

lifesitenews.com/news/states-could-force-catholic-priests-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-lose-l

 

[Rau]

It is not ridiculous according to constitutional scholars. Actually, If the Supreme Court rules that same-sex “marriage” is a constitutional right,the government could force clergy of all denominations to perform gay “weddings”. So priests, ministers, rabbis, and imams will be required to perform such ceremonies – regardless of their religious beliefs – or face state penalties or jail.

lifesitenews.com/news/states-could-force-catholic-priests-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-lose-l

The only consequence is that ministers would cease acting for the State. Catholics would simply undergo a separate state process.

 

[Smfm]

It is not ridiculous according to constitutional scholars. Actually, If the Supreme Court rules that same-sex “marriage” is a constitutional right,the government could force clergy of all denominations to perform gay “weddings”. So priests, ministers, rabbis, and imams will be required to perform such ceremonies – regardless of their religious beliefs – or face state penalties or jail.

lifesitenews.com/news/states-could-force-catholic-priests-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-lose-l

They won’t be able to force those strong in their faith, If the Irish Government talks about separation of Church & State, then they should keep their noses out of the Catholic faith, Enda Kenny is a law onto himself, and I despise him !

 

[Ignatius]

The only consequence is that ministers would cease acting for the State. Catholics would simply undergo a separate state process.

So the Supreme Court Justices don’t know what the potential consequences are? Perhaps you could enlighten them.
I’m greatly relieved that Rau can give us a guarantee that the bounds of religious freedom won’t be ignored and/or exceeded and that no administration won’t decide to ignore the law as this administration is doing.

 

[Rau]

So the Supreme Court Justices don’t know what the potential consequences are? Perhaps you could enlighten them.
I’m greatly relieved that Rau can give us a guarantee that the bounds of religious freedom won’t be ignored and/or exceeded and that no administration won’t decide to ignore the law as this administration is doing.

Read the article again - carefully. It simply says that if you offer to do STATE marriages, you may have to offer them for all comers.

Priests will simply cease to offer the State process. You will get your licence from the State, then, if Catholic, you will separately see the Priest for the religious ceremony.

Do you understand now? No one will be in breach of the law.

 

[Ignatius]

Read the article again - carefully. It simply says that if you offer to do STATE marriages, you may have to offer them for all comers.

Priests will simply cease to offer the State process. You will get your licence from the State, then, if Catholic, you will separately see the Priest for the religious ceremony.

No one will be in breach of the law.

How can you give a guarantee that the bounds of religious freedom won’t be ignored and/or breached and some bureaucrat won’t decide to ignore the law as this administration is doing in many instances.

 

[Rau]

How can you give a guarantee that the bounds of religious freedom won’t be ignored and/or breached and some bureaucrat won’t decide to ignore the law as this administration is doing in many instances.

You pointed to a magazine article as proving that the Church would now face an obligation to marry same sex couples and priests would be in breach of the law if they declined. I’ve explained to you that the article said no such thing, and I’ve further explained how priests can readily avoid any compulsion to officiate at a state marriage.

You now appear to be asking a more general question. Next you will be asking me to give an assurance that baker’s won’t be obligated by some bureaucrat to delivery photography services at Jewish festivals.

 

[DrTaffy]

So priests, ministers, rabbis, and imams will be required to perform such ceremonies – regardless of their religious beliefs – or face state penalties or jail.

lifesitenews.com/news/states-could-force-catholic-priests-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-lose-l

From that article:

Justice Scalia repeatedly suggested that once a constitutional right to marry by same-sex couples was enshrined by the court, a member of the clergy could not be given civil marriage powers by the state unless he agreed to perform any and all marriages that the nation legally recognizes.

emphasis added

So since when has the Catholic Church been forced to marry divorcees, since those marriages are legally recognised by the nation?

This is just scaremongering by a well known anti gay rights campaigner.