Question about Ireland vote on same sex marriage

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

From that article:

Quote:
Justice Scalia repeatedly suggested that once a constitutional right to marry by same-sex couples was enshrined by the court, a member of the clergy could not be given civil marriage powers by the state unless he agreed to perform any and all marriages that the nation legally recognizes.

But don’t you see the blatant unfairness of it all? When priests give up the ability to perform secular weddings, Catholics and other Christians will have to undergo TWO separate weddings. One civil and and one sacramental…while a gay couple only needs one. That has got to be a violation of equality.

 

[DrTaffy]

But don’t you see the blatant unfairness of it all? When priests give up the ability to perform secular weddings, Catholics and other Christians will have to undergo TWO separate weddings. One civil and and one sacramental…while a gay couple only needs one. That has got to be a violation of equality.

Have Catholic priests had to give up the the ability to perform secular weddings to avoid being forced to marry divorcees?

 

[Ignatius]

This is just scaremongering .

Nid felly mae fy mrawd annwyl o Gymru. No, it is based on what has already happened in the US and Canada. trajectory of events shows the trend based on the current trajectory if event data points. It’s the same method used to intercept an incoming missile based on the current trajectory and it’s proven to be very accurate over time.

 

[DrTaffy]

Nid felly mae fy mrawd annwyl o Gymru.

Ie felly, cariad! (Basically ‘not so’ ‘yes so’ in Welsh, for those wondering what this gibberish is. Also I have just found out to my shame that my tablet is not set up to accept Welsh spelling - I’ll have to look into that!)

But when has a Catholic priest been forced to marry divorcees?

It is a slightly more awkward situation with gays as they are a protected minority class in many places (but not federally) but there is also the well established ministerial exemption. How is that not iron clad? If you can use it to justify firing a teacher who was not even Catholic for expressing an opinion on gay rights, how could you possibly fail to use it to prevent an ordained Catholic priest from having to carry out a SS wedding?

 

[Denise1957]

The Roman Catholic Church needs to form a contemporary Holy Crusade, in the form of intensive education, and very quickly. Not sure the New Evangelisation is big and strong enough, yet, as this needs to be a war of love, an intensive one of faith.

And because there are those who don’t respect reason, this needs to comprise of a strong loving devotion, in the form of prayers, to Our Lady. Think of Don Juan (although, his was a physical battle). This is, not the War of the Roses, but the War of the Rosary. At the heart of all this evil, all this sin - gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia etc…- is a lack of compassion, a lack of respect for life, and especially, a lack of love for the vulnerable. IOW,** PRIDE**. Fortunately, Our Lady is the protecting Mother of those who go to her - she is Advocate to her Son, especially for Christians, with a heart for the most vulnerable.

Well said. The praying of the Rosary can be very effective. It does indeed need to be a war of love (for souls, IMO) and an intensive one of faith. It will help, too, to withstand the coming of more or worse persecutions, IMO.

The proponents of same-sex marriage won’t likely stop at just having same-sex marriage approved in all of the western countries. I think that there will be referendums later which will force the Church to marry same-sex couples, since the forces behind the “Gay agenda” have a lot of money and power, and they know how to twist thinking through emotional appeals. I think it’s more about hatred of Christianity, rather than just being about advocating for same-sex couples that’s behind the “Gay agenda.”

 

[Ignatius]

Ignatius;13009120:

Nid felly mae fy mrawd annwyl o Gymru. No, it is based on what has already happened in the US and Canada. trajectory of events shows the trend based on the current trajectory if event data points. It’s the same method used to intercept an incoming missile based on the current trajectory and it’s proven to be very accurate over time.

Ie felly, cariad! (Basically ‘not so’ ‘yes so’ in Welsh, for those wondering what this gibberish is. Also I have just found out to my shame that my tablet is not set up to accept Welsh spelling - I’ll have to look into that!)

But when has a Catholic priest been forced to marry divorcees?

That is a classic Straw Man Fallacy and, hence, a non sequitur.

As I pointed out in my previous post, the projection of the consequences it is based on what has already happened in the US and Canada. trajectory of events shows the trend based on the current trajectory if event data points. It’s the same method used to project the intercept point for an incoming missile based on the current trajectory. It is a method that has been proven to be very accurate in predicting outcomes over time.

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“Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for.” - Will Rogers

 

[KP3243]

It is not ridiculous according to constitutional scholars. Actually, If the Supreme Court rules that same-sex “marriage” is a constitutional right,the government could force clergy of all denominations to perform gay “weddings”. So priests, ministers, rabbis, and imams will be required to perform such ceremonies – regardless of their religious beliefs – or face state penalties or jail.

lifesitenews.com/news/states-could-force-catholic-priests-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-or-lose-l

I hope this doesn’t happen! If that is the way things go I would make every couple take a serious in depth Pre-Cana class and have them understand the Biblical history of marriage, theology of the body and meet with them weekly for six months and go over things like pornography in the marriage, contraception, financial issues, family history and refuse to marry anyone who is cohabiting.

 

[DrTaffy]

That is a classic Straw Man Fallacy and, hence, a non sequitur.

Well, no.

Scalia explicitly asserts that Catholic priest will be forced to carry out “any and all marriages that the nation legally recognizes” according to the article you cite in post #52.

But the USA legally recognises the marriage of divorcees, yet there are as far as I am aware no cases of the Catholic Church being forced to marry divorcees?

As I pointed out in my previous post, the projection of the consequences it is based on what has already happened in the US and Canada.

A projection that requires ignoring the ministerial exemption or the principle of freedom of religion. It is as though your incoming missile were about to hit a mountain range and the uniformitarian insisted that the missile would simply continue at a constant velocity through the mountains without slowing or being smashed up.

 

[DrTaffy]

But don’t you see the blatant unfairness of it all? When priests give up the ability to perform secular weddings, Catholics and other Christians will have to undergo TWO separate weddings. One civil and and one sacramental…while a gay couple only needs one. That has got to be a violation of equality.

Which is the biggest violation of equality: saying that you must make one trivial bureaucratic step to get your marriage legally recognised, or saying that you may never have your marriage recognised under any circumstances whatsoever? :ehh:

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Have Catholic priests had to give up the the ability to perform secular weddings to avoid being forced to marry divorcees?

To compare divorce with a same sex marriage is a bit of a stretch.

The Catholic Church does not refuse to marry Catholics who have been divorced. They can be sacramentally married in the Church as soon as their previous marriages are annulled.

Likewise, the Church would not refuse to marry two Catholic homosexuals as long as they were opposite sexes and agreed to have children.

The point is this…Ordained clergy are authorized by the state to perform marriages that are legally accepted as a civil marriage. As such the priest is acting as an agent or official of the state. When a same sex Catholic couple asks to be married in the Church and the priest refuses…he will be violating the authority granted to him by the state. He could face a fine or worse. A suggested solution is to have priests give up their civil authority and marry Catholic couples sacramentally. Then the Catholic couple must repeat a wedding for civil purposes. That is an unfair economic burden.

There are only two JUST solutions to this problem:

1. The state accepts, carte blanche, and automatically gives legal recognition to all marriages performed in the Catholic Church…and acknowledges that it (the state) has no power to prohibit the free exercise of Religion.
2. The state accepts the traditional and true definition of marriage as a union of one man and one woman.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Which is the biggest violation of equality: saying that you must make one trivial bureaucratic step to get your marriage legally recognised, or saying that you may never have your marriage recognised under any circumstances whatsoever? :ehh:

No less trivial then one small group demanding a redefinition of traditional marriage for the purpose of advancing and gaining acceptance of a deviant sexual activity.

 

[Ignatius]

Ignatius;13009487:

That is a classic Straw Man Fallacy and, hence, a non sequitur.

As I pointed out in my previous post, the projection of the consequences it is based on what has already happened in the US and Canada. trajectory of events shows the trend based on the current trajectory if event data points. It’s the same method used to project the intercept point for an incoming missile based on the current trajectory. It is a method that has been proven to be very accurate in predicting outcomes over time.

Well, no.

Scalia explicitly asserts that Catholic priest will be forced to carry out “any and all marriages that the nation legally recognizes” according to the article you cite in post #52.

But the USA legally recognises the marriage of divorcees, yet there are as far as I am aware no cases of the Catholic Church being forced to marry divorcees?

The implication is that since something hasn’t happened, it can’t happen? That’s pretty weak. That contention is clearly incorrect on the face of it.

Besides, I didn’t say it had already happened. I am talking about a method that has been proven to be very accurate in predicting outcomes. The projection of the consequences it is based on the current trajectory of event data points. It’s the same method used to project the intercept point for an incoming missile based on the current trajectory.

 

[Smfm]

So why do homosexuals want to get married ? doesn’t the very word (marriage) mean copulation, life, how can two homosexuals pro-create ? It’s in the Bible, man shall not lie down with a man…