Question about marriage

[that_name]

The example of a spouse becoming paralyzed is tragic, and personally I really do think the level of intimacy would decrease and not just because of sex, someone that sick is just not a full person anymore, and you can’t have as good a relationship with them as you did when they were healthy.

This comes across as one of the most shallow things I have ever heard!

As a person with a chronic disability, it is great to know I am not a full person. Thanks. Pray none of your friends become ill, or guess you cannot have as good a relationship with them.

Hope you mature some before you consider marriage.

Josephite marriages may be valid, but frankly to me they sound extremely weird and unnatural. If you’re going to live like a nun/monk, why not just become a nun/monk. What exactly is the point of getting married?

Saints, including the Holy Family, have lived in Josephite marriages. Remember, sex is created for marriage. Marriage is not created for sex.

Get your priorities straight and you will have a much happier life.

 

[flyingfish]

This comes across as one of the most shallow things I have ever heard!

As a person with a chronic disability, it is great to know I am not a full person. Thanks. Pray none of your friends become ill, or guess you cannot have as good a relationship with them.

Hope you mature some before you consider marriage.

I’m sorry if I gave offense, but you gave an extreme example of a paralyzed person. I imagined someone who spent the entire day in bed unable to move.

I was not thinking about moderate disabilities.

Saints, including the Holy Family, have lived in Josephite marriages. Remember, sex is created for marriage. Marriage is not created for sex.

Get your priorities straight and you will have a much happier life.

These cases are extremely rare and not normal for most human beings. Personally I would not consider a relationship without sex a proper relationship and would move on elsewhere.

I’m a woman too, I would imagine men feel even more strongly about this and would not want to be in a relationship with rare sex or no sex at all.

 

[newbetx]

Is the intimacy you have with your so, mother, close friends and so on anywhere near what you have with your husband?

I’m not saying sex is intimacy, or that sex is all you need for intimacy, I do think some kind of a sexual relationship is pretty necessary.

The example of a spouse becoming paralyzed is tragic, and personally I really do think the level of intimacy would decrease and not just because of sex, someone that sick is just not a full person anymore, and you can’t have as good a relationship with them as you did when they were healthy.

Josephite marriages may be valid, but frankly to me they sound extremely weird and unnatural. If you’re going to live like a nun/monk, why not just become a nun/monk. What exactly is the point of getting married?

You can have sex and not be intimate. That is the point. You can be intimate and not have sex. That’s important, too. To say one is intimate BECAUSE they have sex… well, that’s a problem. Sex is not necessary for intimacy. Should sex be intimate? Absolutely!

The way the OP portrayed it was that because they weren’t having sex, intimacy was, well short. That’s not how it works.

 

[flyingfish]

You can have sex and not be intimate. That is the point. You can be intimate and not have sex. That’s important, too. To say one is intimate BECAUSE they have sex… well, that’s a problem. Sex is not necessary for intimacy. Should sex be intimate? Absolutely!

The way the OP portrayed it was that because they weren’t having sex, intimacy was, well short. That’s not how it works.

I think without sex, or at least some kind of sexual activity the intimacy is significantly lessened. This has been my experience, so I understand the OP’s position. I think if you ask any man if he feels more intimate with his wife when they have semi-regular sex, or when they have it very rarely or almost never, he’ll vote for the sex. Many women would would as well.

I’m not arguing that you can’t be intimate without sex, you can, but the quality of the intimacy will be reduced (and maybe for some it would be almost eliminated, since some people, in particular some men value sex very highly). I’m also not saying that all sex is intimate, it’s not, I agree with you.

 

[beckers]

I think without sex, or at least some kind of sexual activity the intimacy is significantly lessened. This has been my experience, so I understand the OP’s position. I think if you ask any man if he feels more intimate with his wife when they have semi-regular sex, or when they have it very rarely or almost never, he’ll vote for the sex. Many women would would as well.

I’m not arguing that you can’t be intimate without sex, you can, but the quality of the intimacy will be reduced (and maybe for some it would be almost eliminated, since some people, in particular some men value sex very highly). I’m also not saying that all sex is intimate, it’s not, I agree with you.

Yes but remember that the OP is not married. The intmacy that he is/has experienced is false one. Committment is something that leads to a deep level of intmacy and they don’t have that. They are talking about it but they have tainted all their intmacy with the physical nature of sex way too early.

As the saying goes “Sex is the icing on the cake not the cupcake.” Which means that sex is the finale. Its the over all compeletion of the intmacy between two people. The flesh of the the two becoming one. The physical intmacy is the last of the building blocks not the first. In this case they have confused and muddled things and it is very very hard to undo that. I think we can all read the threads on here about the problems in marriage and they stem a lot from either spouse not feeling that they are being “feed” anymore. So one can say that lack of sex is not the only problem nor is it the only thing that defines intmacy.

My BF and i are very intimate in someways. We talk about our feels and have grown close together emotional and spritiaul.We are even physically intimate… We hold hands and give each other hugs. We don’t need the sex to be intimate nor do we want that to define our relationship.Some levels of initimacy emotional, physical and spiritually should not be reached until marriage. Otherwise we are to protect our hearts minds and bodies for our future spouse if that is the case or God if we are to be single or the religious life.

The OP in question had a very long thread which discussed his and his GF relationship and how it was focused on sex and how she is lost in her faith. He understood how much her faith meant to her and how he helped tear it down and now how he wanted to “fix her” to make it all better. He understood that he emotional and spirtual needs were not being meet. But instead of focusing on those things he has decided to constantly focus on sex. How he please her and how hard it must be for her to go this long with out sex. He is doing nothing to foster the intimacy that women especially need with a mate when it comes to the emotional, spiritual and no-sexual physical intimacy. Instead he is focusing on getting married and thinking that will solve all things because they can have sex all the time with out problems.

 

[that_name]

Flyingfish -

FYI, the most intimate thing one can do with another person is not sex, it is prayer.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Funny thing about introducing sex too early… before a real commitment is made. It does two pernicious things:

1. Blocks the ability to really distinguish whether someone is overall suitable for the long run. How many marriages are done hastily and crash and burn because someone’s ability to look objectively at a potential spouse was short-circuited by sexual relations.
2. Shuts down the progress of intimacy. The moment you introduce sex… growth in intimacy in other areas stops. It is like a bug in amber… frozen in time. the relationship becomes all about the sex and then later you have women complaining because they feel objectified and they don’t “communicate” etc. It becomes harder to really get to know the person when you can just have sex to smooth over issues, or derail real conversation with physical intimacy.

And yes, that happens a lot. What man, given a choice, will choose talking over the other?

And it’s very insulting to insinuate that someone paralyzed in a bed is only half a person and does not have a lively mind and soul and is incapable maybe even of greater intimacy. The desire for unity with other people must be channeled in other ways. Sometimes couples become CLOSER when disaster strikes and they learn things about each other and are forced to go to a different level of relationship with each other.

 

[zz912]

Yes, I agree. I am therefore pleased with the fact that we have already had sex. I do not think there are any unresolved issues between us now (although there could be some undiscovered issues). If there was anything, it would have to be this irritating no-sex rule. This is worse for my gf, though, as she isn’t even masturbating! :doh2: Also, her lack of experience makes it harder for her to resist, although I am helping her.

We are both working out a lot, but it is not as tiring as I would like. Also, she is already a curvy girl, and maybe she is getting a little heavy in the thighs and butt from all the training (don’t worry, I haven’t said anything). At least all this training gives us an excuse to give each other full-body massages. The experience ultimately leaves you unfulfilled (I usually excuse myself to the bathroom afterwards), but I find it kind of amusing. She is clearly taking pleasure in something with the excuse that it is not overtly sexual. I cannot help but think: “wouldn’t it be better to just let go and enjoy?”. I have tried to understand the sexual morals of the church, but I’m struggling with making any sense of it. For now, I simply acknowledge that it’s her view, and respect it because of that.

You don’t love this woman. You simply want her to satisfy your sexual urgings. You view her as nothing more than an object for your use. That is NOT love, and you are going to hurt this woman very badly. Please stop. You need to stop seeing her and both of you grow up some more.

If at some point you both become more mature, then you might decide to start down this path again. But right now, you are simply using her as an object and do not respect her as a person. (which is not surprising considering your religious views.)

 

[Persuader]

Three things to say:

1.Intimacy is not sex. I agree. I was simply saying that physical intimacy is inhibited by not having sex. Isn’t that obvious? I would certainly say that it impacts on both intimacy and passion in a relationship. In the relatively short time we have abstained, our physical interaction has gotten more and more loaded with sexual desire. As more time goes by, it gets harder to abstain, so we have to limit our physical contact. We just decided to stop with the massages because it is simply too frustrating. We cannot sleep together anymore because it gets too frustrating. For me it’s not as bad since I masturbate, and in that way relieve some tension, but overall it’s unsatisfactory for us both.

The way I see it we either marry now, or we wait until we are finished with our degrees. This will take several years, and it is simply unrealistic to wait that long without having sex. Our relationship in general is really good, I think. I feel we can talk about everything, and we are very open with each other. I think I have explained this. If we didn’t have these things, marriage would be out of the question. Sex is what is missing – the other stuff is great.

1. My gf hasn’t heard the audio, but I am sure she would agree with the bits I mentioned.
2. The point of the article I posted is just to say that it is possible to retain passion after the first years where couples are head over heels. Since I am to marry my gf, I hope we are one of the couples who are able to retain passion.

 

[stbruno]

There is a wonderful website provided by our diocese about marriage. Actually 2 websites, but the one that regards the marriage regulations is called.

inthespiritofcana.org/ And the other one is www.familyministries.org and on this one you can click on the appropriate area…if you are engaged or married and want to learn more about building the sacrament of marriage and supporting families.

But another great website is www.foryourmarriage.org offered by the Catholic bishops and it has daily notations on how to build a strong family and marriage. I highly recommend checking them all out, whether you are thinking about marriage or have been married for 1,5, 20,30, or 50 years

 

[newbetx]

I think without sex, or at least some kind of sexual activity the intimacy is significantly lessened. This has been my experience, so I understand the OP’s position. I think if you ask any man if he feels more intimate with his wife when they have semi-regular sex, or when they have it very rarely or almost never, he’ll vote for the sex. Many women would would as well.

I’m not arguing that you can’t be intimate without sex, you can, but the quality of the intimacy will be reduced (and maybe for some it would be almost eliminated, since some people, in particular some men value sex very highly). I’m also not saying that all sex is intimate, it’s not, I agree with you.

Oh, I value it very highly, too. However it’s been said “I can live without sex, but I can’t live without intimacy.” I believe it comes from a wrong perception about sex and the prevailing definition of intimacy.

We all think we know what we want/need. But when it comes down to it, needs and wants are very different. Most men WANT sex and, typically “need” it. I feel that way. Sex drive isn’t a bad thing. Not being able to contain that drive is a bad thing. Culture tells us we aren’t required to contain it. We are told we shouldn’t contain it, we should change the environment to enable it to control us.

I know it sounds really strange. But self-control is a very freeing feeling and a mechanism that leads to intimacy.

I don’t know about you but I feel angry when it’s been a while. Would it be OK for me to scream obscenities at my wife because that would be a natural thing for me to do when I’m angry? How would that lead to intimacy?

If one is convinced intimacy is achieved through sex… when sex isn’t enough anymore (and at some time it won’t be for one or the other), what do you think happens?

 

[that_name]

If you have a masturbation habit, your girlfriend would be very unwise to marry you. You are cheating on her already.

 

[newbetx]

If you have a masturbation habit, your girlfriend would be very unwise to marry you. You are cheating on her already.

Welcome to the forums! And thanks for sharing this.

No offense, however, but this is a “drop and run” post. So why would the person come to an understanding if your point is not explained? Please provide reference and remember he’s non-religious. He needs to know why it’s bad for him and his relationship with his gf. And it has to be done outside of sin and damnation context.

Secondly, if the person sees nothing wrong with pre-marital sex with others, why would he think that sex with himself is wrong? It’s a tough sell, for sure.

 

[Persuader]

Masturbation and porn. Good times IMO, and I don’t see that it is any of my gfs business (unless it is obviously impacting my life in a negative way, which is not the case). When we are not having sex, I find it completely normal to go masturbate with porn. With previous gfs and lovers I used to watch with them some times, but since my gf doesn’t like it, I keep it to myself. Not a problem as long as it isn’t an addiction. I didn’t even consider this to be an issue until my gf told me about the Catholic view.

I think masturbation is a healthy and normal part of developing sexuality, and it also has some physical benefits in addition to releasing tension.

Porn can give a false understanding of sex, and it can be objectifying, but if you are reasonably mature it is not harmful to watch. It’s a bit like watching violent movies. If you are reasonably mature, you understand that it isn’t real and you can enjoy it. That is my opinion, anyway. All my friends watch, and they are all fine. I doubt I could find many guys who do not watch porn.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Persuader, porn acts with the same chemical receptors in the brain that cocaine uses.

It will eventually take more and worse varieties to produce the same response. And it is very degrading to a wife that her husband sits and imagines himself with other women and gets sexual satisfaction in these “virtual flings.”

Masturbation makes a man a poor lover. He is retraining himself only to seek his own pleasure and what makes him satisfied. Eventually he will be the only one that can do it for himself. And he won’t be making his wife happy. Your GF thinks you’re great because she has no one to compare you with. Just a bit of advice… unless you want to become a poor, inattentive lover unable to please your wife, keep up the self-stimulation.

Marriage therapists say that masturbation can actually do more harm to a marriage than affairs because of the degree of selfishness involved. The person doesn’t even need another person for THAT. It takes an act that should be a mutual giving of love and turns it into self-love.

Just throwing that out there. You are retraining your brain to become turned in on yourself and unreceptive to the person you should be most attentive to.

Marriage requires a high degree of unselfishness to work.

 

[flyingfish]

I don’t know about you but I feel angry when it’s been a while. Would it be OK for me to scream obscenities at my wife because that would be a natural thing for me to do when I’m angry? How would that lead to intimacy?

Of course not, but it would be a natural think for you to start feeling more distant and less affectionate toward your wife if you weren’t having sex.

As for them not being married, from the perspective of human nature a committed relationship is pretty much equivalent to marriage. The way their minds and bodies are responding to each other is no different than what married couples experience.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Not really. Once you’re married, it’s different. Then you realize how tenuous the commitment really was before the marriage. The body may feel committed, but deep down in at least the mind of one of the parties, there is something missing. That’s why whenever couples have long-term sexual relationships, there’s always one person who wants more than the other to make it permanent.

 

[BrokenFortress]

I’m curious if you’ve told your girlfriend that you masturbate and watch porn frequently? What does she think of it?

If you haven’t told her about your masturbation, I highly suggest it to see where she stands on the issue.

I’m just wondering if she’d have an issue with it. Better her known now than after she’s married.

 

[dulcissima]

Persuader, porn acts with the same chemical receptors in the brain that cocaine uses.

It will eventually take more and worse varieties to produce the same response. And it is very degrading to a wife that her husband sits and imagines himself with other women and gets sexual satisfaction in these “virtual flings.”

Masturbation makes a man a poor lover. He is retraining himself only to seek his own pleasure and what makes him satisfied. Eventually he will be the only one that can do it for himself. And he won’t be making his wife happy. Your GF thinks you’re great because she has no one to compare you with. Just a bit of advice… unless you want to become a poor, inattentive lover unable to please your wife, keep up the self-stimulation.

Marriage therapists say that masturbation can actually do more harm to a marriage than affairs because of the degree of selfishness involved. The person doesn’t even need another person for THAT. It takes an act that should be a mutual giving of love and turns it into self-love.

Just throwing that out there. You are retraining your brain to become turned in on yourself and unreceptive to the person you should be most attentive to.

Marriage requires a high degree of unselfishness to work.

Absolutely.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Masturbation and porn. Good times IMO, and I don’t see that it is any of my gfs business (unless it is obviously impacting my life in a negative way, which is not the case). When we are not having sex, I find it completely normal to go masturbate with porn.

Do you realize that the people who make the porn are broken people who have been used and abused like trash. They are treated as less than human. They are people who have been abused as children.

Do you realize that when you masturbate to porn you are looking at a woman who’s own father may have forced her into sex? Who’s uncle made her ‘do things’ to him.

Can’t you feel any empathy for that little girl? Do you have to contribute to her continued abuse?

Or are you only interested in you own ‘pleasure’?