Question about marriage

[zz912]

Of course not, but it would be a natural think for you to start feeling more distant and less affectionate toward your wife if you weren’t having sex.

As for them not being married, from the perspective of human nature a committed relationship is pretty much equivalent to marriage. The way their minds and bodies are responding to each other is no different than what married couples experience.

You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

 

[Persuader]

I am not exactly sure what is meant by comparing porn acts with cocaine. I’m not a porn actor. I remember hearing about a study done on the consequences of porn, and it said that you didn’t actually develop your sexuality in the way that was insinuated in what Liberanosamalo wrote. Apparently, you can discover your preferences and fetishes, but you do not really develop fetishes.

I don’t watch that much porn anyway. Maybe once or twice a week since I am not having sex. When we were having sex, I cannot remember that I watched it more than a couple of times in ca. 5 months.

I have explained to her how it is with porn. It’s not a danger to her, and it is not a replacement. If she doesn’t want to watch it, that’s alright. She seems fine with my explanation. “As long as it doesn’t become an addiction”, she says. I agree, so it’s all good.

I think the claims about masturbation and lovemaking skills sounds very odd. Do anyone have studies that back up that claim? A little strange to say that my gf thinks I’m good because she doesn’t have anyone to compare me with. How do you know how good I am in bed?

I will keep up with masturbation, but I wouldn’t if I actually thought it was damaging. Sex-education in schools would certainly be harming children if masturbation is as terrible as claimed. Everyone is recommending masturbation.

I don’t think marriage therapists are generally against masturbation (I understand if Catholics are, because of the religion). Maybe if a relationship is seriously lacking in some way, you turn to masturbation as a replacement. But then the real problem isn’t the actual masturbation, it’s whatever motivates you to replace your mutual sex life with masturbation. Another possible problem is addiction. However, all that is quite different from a blanket statement saying masturbation is bad. Excessive eating can make you fat. That doesn’t mean that food is bad.

I don’ see anything wrong with masturbation as a supplement to our mutual sex life, and I cannot remember it having a negative effect with any of my partners. If anything, it makes you a better lover because you can learn more about what kind of stimulus you like, and you can gain better control of ejaculation.

As far as porn actors go, I don’t know that they have all been abused. Isn’t that an old cliché? I’m not actually contributing financially anyway, I get everything free online.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Marriage is a very serious next step, and I’m sure you know that, Persuader. It’s hard enough…life throws curve balls sometimes, and if a marriage is built on a shaky foundation to begin with, it can be very hard to deal with those curve balls. Even harder, is when two people begin a marriage, thinking completely differently on serious moral subjects, like sex, porn, etc. I think that before you both make the leap to marriage, you should really contemplate is this is a wise next step.

I also think she should date others, because she seems attached to you in a very unhealthy way. That could be due to premarital sex, I dunno. But, she seems to agree with you on things, that I imagine, her conscience cringes at, ie the porn viewing. No Catholic woman is going to give a nod to her bf or husband about that…so, it sounds like she is attached to you, in an unhealthy way. Nothing against you as a person, I just think that she needs to branch out and see that she doesn’t need to marry someone just because she had sex with him. I am thinking she thinks marrying you will somehow erase or make better, the things you both did sexually. Marriage isn’t a cure for what ails a person. lol It’s a very serious next step, and it behooves both parties to really understand what they’re getting into.

Just my ramblings.*

 

[whatevergirl]

Maybe I shouldn’t have said she should date others…more of what I mean, you and she should seriously take a break from one another. The temptations of sex, the difference of opinions on basic moral issues, etc…your girlfriend is trying to make her way back to her faith. She is trying to rediscover herself. She should try to do this without the influence of someone, who frankly, isn’t helping her in this regard. Again, this isn’t any offense to you…this is what will help HER to get back to a healthier view of herself, life, and her faith. I just don’t think she is going to grow as she would with you right now, as she might without you. Doesn’t mean you have to date others, just means, she really needs some space to find who she is again. And with you, she seems to take your opinions, over her own…and accepts your porn viewing, etc…because she is fearful of losing you. No way she doesn’t care…she just is fearful of saying, no you need to stop this…and you leaving. That is why you both should take a break. She doesn’t know who she is anymore, without this relationship, it just seems from my vantage point.

 

[iamrefreshed]

As far as porn actors go, I don’t know that they have all been abused. Isn’t that an old cliché? I’m not actually contributing financially anyway, I get everything free online.

To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.
Amos Bronson Alcott

Love, you know, seeks to make happy rather than to be happy.
Ralph Connor

 

[newbetx]

I am not exactly sure what is meant by comparing porn acts with cocaine. I’m not a porn actor. I remember hearing about a study done on the consequences of porn, and it said that you didn’t actually develop your sexuality in the way that was insinuated in what Liberanosamalo wrote. Apparently, you can discover your preferences and fetishes, but you do not really develop fetishes.

I don’t watch that much porn anyway. Maybe once or twice a week since I am not having sex. When we were having sex, I cannot remember that I watched it more than a couple of times in ca. 5 months.

I have explained to her how it is with porn. It’s not a danger to her, and it is not a replacement. If she doesn’t want to watch it, that’s alright. She seems fine with my explanation. “As long as it doesn’t become an addiction”, she says. I agree, so it’s all good.

I think the claims about masturbation and lovemaking skills sounds very odd. Do anyone have studies that back up that claim? A little strange to say that my gf thinks I’m good because she doesn’t have anyone to compare me with. How do you know how good I am in bed?

I will keep up with masturbation, but I wouldn’t if I actually thought it was damaging. Sex-education in schools would certainly be harming children if masturbation is as terrible as claimed. Everyone is recommending masturbation.

I don’t think marriage therapists are generally against masturbation (I understand if Catholics are, because of the religion). Maybe if a relationship is seriously lacking in some way, you turn to masturbation as a replacement. But then the real problem isn’t the actual masturbation, it’s whatever motivates you to replace your mutual sex life with masturbation. Another possible problem is addiction. However, all that is quite different from a blanket statement saying masturbation is bad. Excessive eating can make you fat. That doesn’t mean that food is bad.

I don’ see anything wrong with masturbation as a supplement to our mutual sex life, and I cannot remember it having a negative effect with any of my partners. If anything, it makes you a better lover because you can learn more about what kind of stimulus you like, and you can gain better control of ejaculation.

As far as porn actors go, I don’t know that they have all been abused. Isn’t that an old cliché? I’m not actually contributing financially anyway, I get everything free online.

And rather than filtering what Fr. Riccardo said in that pod cast, why don’t you let her listen and discuss what she thinks about it.

You did get one thing about masturbation right… it’s WHY you do it that is a symptom of a greater problem. Oh, and at one time leaches were recommended, too.

You never did get that book I recommended did you? “Real Love” It can explain the science behind much of this.

There really are too major issues with porn. First, it helps create a fantasy relationship which your gf may or may not be able to live up to over time. Virtually all levels of excitement are portrayed. As we all like to do something better or in a more exciting way, porn feeds that desire. At some point we look for something more exciting and porn has it all. Rape, incest, bondage… eventually, what is beautiful in itself becomes ordinary or boring. Mentally, the act is no longer something to be given freely of each other but becomes a thing to be obtained. The bar keeps rising until only fantasy turns you on.

Secondly, it promotes the idea that sex is a thing to do, not something that is shared by only by a couple in the most intimate of circumstances. I know you think you’re there. But I can assure you there is something even more intimate (for lack of a better word) than the sex you have today.

 

[Persuader]

newbetx: I have not spoken to her about that audio specifically, but we have spoken about the issues raised. I think we are in agreement on how to approach marriage now. She is also reading a book recommended by the priest we are seeing.

Look, it’s going to be difficult to persuade me that masturbation is bad. All the relevant authorities recommend it, and I am sure it is backed up by sound science. Generally it is said to be healthy, and I am certainly not addicted to it. I think sex with another person is much better.

When it comes to porn, I can say that my preferences have not really changed by watching it. I guess I have watched porn on and off since I was 13. I generally like the same things now as I did in the beginning, although I have discovered some new things over the years (through sexual experimentation).

Perhaps you are right about changes in intimacy due to marriage, but I have a problem seeing how sexual intimacy changes just because you have a ceremony. If you mean that it can change through increase in trust and commitment, you might be right. Certainly, there is some sexual things you can do, and I have not introduced her to power-play yet

whatevergirl: I think it is very strange to recommend a breakup at this point. The relationship is moving forward, and I don’t think she is backing down on these issues because she is afraid of losing me. I have made concessions on issues more important to me. I think our relationship has progressed passed the point where you are terrified of saying something that can break it up (we have built a little more trust than that). Besides, I recently bought her an engagement ring. God, those diamonds are expensive! Praise God for the New Year sales

Now it’s really just about finding the right moment, and I guess we will be officially engaged. Very exciting times. My gf is already talking about marriage arrangements and honeymoon destinations. Seems like double destinations are the new thing. The Maldives and Dubai, or maybe Mauritius and Uganda… glad I’m not paying. So you see, breaking up is not on the agenda at all. I’d be very surprised if we are not married in time for summer break.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Wow–you guys moved quickly…and you bought her a ring. I do wish you both well…God’s best for a loving and lasting marriage. And for your conversion, of course.

I didn’t think you were this far along…that maybe taking a break would help her – but seeing that you bought a ring and all…I can only wish you the very best. God bless.*

 

[zz912]

Perhaps you are right about changes in intimacy due to marriage, but I have a problem seeing how sexual intimacy changes just because you have a ceremony.

Here’s part of the problem. You think it is just a ceremony. I would REALLY recommend you pick up some of the recommended books on marriage and sex that are mentioned in this and other threads.

 

[newbetx]

newbetx: I have not spoken to her about that audio specifically, but we have spoken about the issues raised. I think we are in agreement on how to approach marriage now. She is also reading a book recommended by the priest we are seeing.

Look, it’s going to be difficult to persuade me that masturbation is bad. All the relevant authorities recommend it, and I am sure it is backed up by sound science. Generally it is said to be healthy, and I am certainly not addicted to it. I think sex with another person is much better.

When it comes to porn, I can say that my preferences have not really changed by watching it. I guess I have watched porn on and off since I was 13. I generally like the same things now as I did in the beginning, although I have discovered some new things over the years (through sexual experimentation).

Perhaps you are right about changes in intimacy due to marriage, but I have a problem seeing how sexual intimacy changes just because you have a ceremony. If you mean that it can change through increase in trust and commitment, you might be right. Certainly, there is some sexual things you can do, and I have not introduced her to power-play yet

whatevergirl: I think it is very strange to recommend a breakup at this point. The relationship is moving forward, and I don’t think she is backing down on these issues because she is afraid of losing me. I have made concessions on issues more important to me. I think our relationship has progressed passed the point where you are terrified of saying something that can break it up (we have built a little more trust than that). Besides, I recently bought her an engagement ring. God, those diamonds are expensive! Praise God for the New Year sales

Now it’s really just about finding the right moment, and I guess we will be officially engaged. Very exciting times. My gf is already talking about marriage arrangements and honeymoon destinations. Seems like double destinations are the new thing. The Maldives and Dubai, or maybe Mauritius and Uganda… glad I’m not paying. So you see, breaking up is not on the agenda at all. I’d be very surprised if we are not married in time for summer break.

I must say Persuader, many of the things you say are exactly what I understood and experienced “back in the day.” Science will tell you that masturbation is healthy… for you. What they don’t include in the argument is how it might affect other aspects of your life. That, son, is something you’ll have to discover for yourself, I guess. Who is relevent, too, by the way, is also something you will have to discover.

What book is she reading if you don’t mind us knowing? I’m sure you’ll get comments, but if you want to PM me, I’m just curious.

I take it you won’t be doing the Engaged Encounter weekend or any of the other Church preparations. My fear for YOU is that she figures she’s invested her virginity in you and now is trying to make up for that investment by pursuing marriage to you. Hopefully not, but since I don’t get to understand her side of the story, it would be impossible to conclude. Might be anyway. I know all about marrying for the wrong reasons. I think many do. Hopefully, you will remain a committed, loving spouse, even when things get really tough.

I know that as a couple, compromises are made up front that eventually, one partner is not really willing to follow through on. What do you think the proper way to resolve this might be?

Secondly… I know you have discussed many things with your gf but I wonder about the following:
If you are blessed with a daughter, will you and your wife raise her to maintain her virginity or will you be supporting having sex in her bedroom with her boyfriends? And I don’t want to know the answer, just that you have discussed this type of behavior that is different in each of your upbringings.

 

[dulcissima]

Persuader, sometimes you have to learn things the hard way. I know that I was in the same position as your GF and experienced many of the negative consequences people are trying to help you avoid. I also have a divorce to show for it. Just giving you an FYI since a lot of times we think we know better and only with 20/20 hindsight realize that the Church was right.

 

[Persuader]

whatevergirl: Yeah, things are moving pretty quickly, although she has been talking about marriage for a “long” time.

zz912: I don’t think it’s only a ceremony. Marriage means a stronger commitment, and requires that you put a little more trust in your partner.

newbetx: Well, as I said, I have been masturbating for years, and I haven’t noticed any negative effects. I guess we will see if it continues like that.

I think she is reading this book: amazon.com/Better-Forever-Catholic-Guide-Lifelong-Marriage/dp/0879736887/ and another one, but I don’t know if that is in English.

I can see how you could think that she is motivated to marry partly because she has given up her virginity. I don’t think that is the case, but it’s impossible to be absolutely sure. However, given the sort of opposition and arguments she has heard, I have good reason to think that isn’t one of her reasons. I know her mother and others have been saying that she doesn’t have to marry me just because she had sex with me. When I went with her to mass, I could clearly see that she has a lot of admirers there, so she wouldn’t have any problems getting me replaced with a Catholic if she wished. That I am sure of.

I know that this marriage will have its “problems”. Just the other day, I was reminded of some one of our differences when I was relaxing with some friends and acquaintances at campus. We were talking about the disaster in Haiti, and what we could do/had done to help. My gf appeared in the middle of the conversation, and mentioned that she had prayed for them. Now, it isn’t like everyone at the table was atheist/agnostic, but there is this one girl (Maria) that is a bit of an insensitive b***h. So Maria said something like: “We were talking about what we had done to help the Haitians, not what we had done to make ourselves feel better”.

At this point I thought: “here we go”. I was sure my gf would blow up on her, but she seemed to take it in stride, which just infuriated Maria. Anyway, that blew over, and it was fine. But on the way home, my gf asked kind of rhetorically: “On the substance, you agree with her, don’t you?”. I just looked at her and sighed. We walked in silence the rest of the way.

 

[kage_ar]

Your posts are all I I I I me I me me me me I I I I feel I want I I me me.

Sad way to live…

 

[Liberanosamalo]

At this point I thought: “here we go”. I was sure my gf would blow up on her, but she seemed to take it in stride, which just infuriated Maria. Anyway, that blew over, and it was fine. But on the way home, my gf asked kind of rhetorically: “On the substance, you agree with her, don’t you?”. I just looked at her and sighed. We walked in silence the rest of the way.

Subtext… someone made a very cutting unkind comment to your almost fiancee about something very important to her. Prayer and its place in her life. (A gf who actually DID good works for charity and put it into practice on a local level before you came along!) And what did you do? Did you leap to her defense and say “Maria, pipe down. We’re going to donate a month’s pay to the effort” or did you sit there in silence (giving tacit assent to the insult) and see how your gf dealt with the issue?

And she let it blow over because she has some class to her.

But in private she asked you if you agreed with Maria. (Subtext and all… that her prayer is pretentious and self-serving but ultimately ineffective in the grand scheme of things and she is all about using religion to make herself feel better) and you again let your silence insult her.

Please. Let her go find a man who will prize her. And not just be something that makes YOU feel good in between your masturbation sessions.

The Catholic Church she attends is full of men who would join her in prayer and in good works. And wouldn’t sit by while someone insults her and let her defend herself.

The poor girl has years of heartbreak ahead of her if she expects there to be any real union in this “marriage” you contemplate.

You’re only half there. Too ashamed of her Catholicity to come to her defense? Eventually the silences will suffocate her. Yours. Hers and the silences together.

Her question wasn’t really rhetorical. But you dismissed it as such. And you answered it by your silence.

You really don’t have that much in common. Not enough to build a lifetime on.

 

[flyingfish]

Please. Let her go find a man who will prize her. And not just be something that makes YOU feel good in between your masturbation sessions.

The Catholic Church she attends is full of men who would join her in prayer and in good works. And wouldn’t sit by while someone insults her and let her defend herself.

It seems what’s generally being ignored here is that Persuader’s girlfriend is an adult who is capable of deciding for herself what kind of a man she wants to spend her life with. She’s not a 13 year old girl being lured by a 30 year old man, she’s not developmentally disabled. If she wanted to date the men from church instead, she would have made that decision!

But on one thing you’re right, Persuader you should have put Maria in her place. Even if you agree with her that prayer is pointless/self-serving, you should stand up for your woman.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

No, she’s not disabled. But remember what we’re dealing with. A young woman in the throes of her first sexual relationship. She hasn’t even been with him a year. “reality” hasn’t fully set in. She’s still fixated on the chemical bonding with him and all the emotional stuff they’ve been through. But little issues are starting to emerge… like his ability to treat her with complete disregard in front of mutual acquaintances. (He owes her an apology for that, by the way.) It’s just one of many ways she will find out that their mindsets in some important areas are fundamentally different.

And she hasn’t been with enough people to know that not every boyfriend will sit and let someone denigrate her and let her twist in the wind and later let her questioning about it hang in the air in silence.

It’s up to Persuader whether he wants to learn from this and make amends. The rules for treating pseudo-fiancees are different than for just friends with benefits.

 

[flyingfish]

No, she’s not disabled. But remember what we’re dealing with. A young woman in the throes of her first sexual relationship. She hasn’t even been with him a year. “reality” hasn’t fully set in. She’s still fixated on the chemical bonding with him and all the emotional stuff they’ve been through. But little issues are starting to emerge… like his ability to treat her with complete disregard in front of mutual acquaintances. (He owes her an apology for that, by the way.) It’s just one of many ways she will find out that their mindsets in some important areas are fundamentally different.

I wouldn’t say it’s that bad. I mean, if I were in his situation, I would have trouble starting a fight of sorts over that. It takes some measure of courage to tell a b*tchy acquaintance to shut it when those around her likely agreed with her.

I wouldn’t attribute that to a “complete disregard”, but more to a lack of courage. I do think he should apologize to her for not having protected her.

And she hasn’t been with enough people to know that not every boyfriend will sit and let someone denigrate her and let her twist in the wind and later let her questioning about it hang in the air in silence.

It’s up to Persuader whether he wants to learn from this and make amends. The rules for treating pseudo-fiancees are different than for just friends with benefits.

I just don’t think sex is that powerful. This young lady by his description is someone very attractive and who has had multiple men show interest. She is not some insecure woman who is latching onto the first guy who’s looked at her, these kinds of people tend to be confident and tend to judge their worth to be high.

I doubt she is staying with him because of the sex. There must be something about him that is making her choose him over all the others.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

FF, sex IS that powerful. It doesn’t matter how many guys are interested in, THIS is the guy that talked her out of her clothes for the first time and she has bonded with him, her FIRST. And that is VERY strong. And right now she is immune to the attentions of other men.

We don’t know how confident she is or isn’t. Often, the people we think should be most confident are most insecure.

This young woman, in her own mind, is virtually married to Persuader.

 

[iamrefreshed]

whatevergirl: Yeah, things are moving pretty quickly, although she has been talking about marriage for a “long” time.

zz912: I don’t think it’s only a ceremony. Marriage means a stronger commitment, and requires that you put a little more trust in your partner.

newbetx: Well, as I said, I have been masturbating for years, and I haven’t noticed any negative effects. I guess we will see if it continues like that.

I think she is reading this book: amazon.com/Better-Forever-Catholic-Guide-Lifelong-Marriage/dp/0879736887/ and another one, but I don’t know if that is in English.

I can see how you could think that she is motivated to marry partly because she has given up her virginity. I don’t think that is the case, but it’s impossible to be absolutely sure. However, given the sort of opposition and arguments she has heard, I have good reason to think that isn’t one of her reasons. I know her mother and others have been saying that she doesn’t have to marry me just because she had sex with me. When I went with her to mass, I could clearly see that she has a lot of admirers there, so she wouldn’t have any problems getting me replaced with a Catholic if she wished. That I am sure of.

I know that this marriage will have its “problems”. Just the other day, I was reminded of some one of our differences when I was relaxing with some friends and acquaintances at campus. We were talking about the disaster in Haiti, and what we could do/had done to help. My gf appeared in the middle of the conversation, and mentioned that she had prayed for them. Now, it isn’t like everyone at the table was atheist/agnostic, but there is this one girl (Maria) that is a bit of an insensitive b***h. So Maria said something like: “We were talking about what we had done to help the Haitians, not what we had done to make ourselves feel better”.

At this point I thought: “here we go”. I was sure my gf would blow up on her, but she seemed to take it in stride, which just infuriated Maria. Anyway, that blew over, and it was fine. But on the way home, my gf asked kind of rhetorically: “On the substance, you agree with her, don’t you?”. I just looked at her and sighed. We walked in silence the rest of the way.

Any chance you could put her engagement ring on your right hand?

After all, you seem to think they’re interchangable.

 

[zz912]

zz912: I don’t think it’s only a ceremony. Marriage means a stronger commitment, and requires that you put a little more trust in your partner.

Nope. Not even close.