Question About Mary ??

[kujo313]

You see this is what really gets my goat. She is not a Goddess, She is not God. We Catholics do not see her as one. I could care less right now what you really think. You are so full of hate towards the Catholic Church…and it really shows. Shines right through every post you make. I don’t have a problem if you disagree with us but…but you keep disagreeing with what we do not believe or teach. We tell you what we believe…you say no that is not what you believe…this is what you believe…It kinda of a circle thing…

You’re right. You use every other word that means “worship” to describe your relationship to Mary. But you don’t use the word “worship”!

“god” -noun
one of several deities, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
an image of a deity; an idol.
any deified person or object.
-verb (used with object)
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

A being conceived as the perfect (sinless), omnipotent (all powerful) , omniscient (everywhere), the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed.
A powerful ruler or despot.

THAT is the Mary of the RCC and not of the Bible.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hey! You just described the RCC! If you want to know what a TRUE Church is, try going to

ATrueChurch.com

Thank you for looking into the mirror and describing yourself.

Yeah, right… everyone’s going to hell except those who follow Darwin Fish.

Bunk!..The Catholic Church was there from day one. The Greek text in acts 9:31 even uses the name ekklesia katholos to speak of the church through all, or literally, the universal church. When did your church come into being? You and Darwin have fun. I didn’t realize that you were that messed up until now.

So you have to go all the way to the year 444 A.D. to quote people? Let’s just stick to the years 6 B.C. to about 33 A.D. Maybe even another 30 years afterward. From 2nd Century and beyond the people who wrote stuff couldn’t ask the origional witnesses if it was true or not.

That’s garbage…St. John the apostle (Gospel of John, epistles of John, and Revelation) didn’t even die until the end of the 1st century and Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch were just two of the guys who were discipled by him and were bishops of churches in Smyrna and Antioch and martyrs for the faith that he taught them, so you are dead wrong there. Their writings show that they believed the same things that the Catholic Church has always taught.

I thought you’d be more knowledgeable than that…but I guess not. :coffeeread:

 

[Stephen_C]

You’re right. You use every other word that means “worship” to describe your relationship to Mary. But you don’t use the word “worship”!

“god” -noun
one of several deities, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
an image of a deity; an idol.
any deified person or object.
-verb (used with object)
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

A being conceived as the perfect (sinless), omnipotent (all powerful) , omniscient (everywhere), the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed.
A powerful ruler or despot.

THAT is the Mary of the RCC and not of the Bible.

Gee, glad you cleared that up for me…That is not what we believe…That is not how we view it…but as I said in my earler post…I guess you know my heart…

 

[Allweather]

Looks like Kujo isn’t going to answer the question about his authority as an infallible interpreter of Scripture.

If Kujo denies the infallibility of the Catholic Church which wrote, assembled, protected and canonized the New Testament, then he’s denying the infallibility of Scripture itself. Because the Church came first. Then the Church wrote the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Scripture gets its authority from the Church. Kujo apparently denies authority of the Church, and then goes on to set HIMSELF up as pope over the Bible, saying only Kujo’s interpretations are correct.

This is the main source of Kujo’s fundamentalist errors regarding Mary.

 

[Church_Militant]

First of all, even if I DID prove it without a shadow of a doubt, you’d still not believe it. Even if it was proven that your denomination’s beliefs and traditions was off, you’d make up something anyway.

Or…maybe you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about and your arguments are without substantive merit and therefore do not convince us?

angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/MaryIsis.html

Yep, farfetched:

In the Book of the Dead Isis was described as:Gee, that’s a real Catholic site? You believe that garbage? I have a great piece of swamp land that I can get ya a good deal on. It’s really lame to use a whackjob non-Catholic (NeoPagan in fact!) source for information on Catholic belief. I thought you might have better sense than this, but

She who gives birth to heaven and earth,
She who knows the orphan,

She who seeks justice for the poor people,
She who seeks shelter for the weak people

Some of Isis’ many other titles were:

Queen of Heaven,
Mother of the Gods,
The One Who is All,
The Brilliant One in the Sky,
Light-Giver of Heaven,

Yeah…yeah…take that up with the author of all that nonsense…none of that is Catholic. And try not to be too gullible…

I see the catholic religion as saying to the people “hey, we have that, too”.
Isis followers, Lutherans, etc.
To Isis followers, the RCCs “Mary” is too similiar in many ways. To Luther, the RCC said “ok, we won’t sell indulgences.”

This is specious hooey, and since it has no basis in fact…it needs no response other than to do as I have done and point out that it’s not Catholic teaching and that your source is garbage. Is this the best you’ve got?

ANYTHING to get people back. Lately, it seems that the RCC is experiencing Pentecost. Why? To get the Pentecostals?

Oh yeah… right. If you say so. This is just more unsupported rhetorical propaganda. Got any facts? I sure don’t see 'em…

God is an unchanging God. Mankind bends the rules instead of simply preaching the Gospel.

Yeah, I’ll agree with that. Just like your buddy Darwin Fish and all the other newbies on the Christian religion in the last 500 years.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Yeah, right… everyone’s going to hell except those who follow Darwin Fish.

Ok…:

If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views the “church of Christ”, or Billy Graham, or Rick Warren, or Joel Osteen, or James Dobson, or Pat Robertson, or John MacArthur, or Tony Evans, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Fred Price, or J. Vernon McGee, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or Gene Scott, or Harold Camping (Family Radio), or John Piper, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or David W. Cloud, or Perry F Rockwood, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Jim Cobrae, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on “Christian” TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ’s sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).

I guess we’re all going to Hell then. I didn’t know God had a website. I thought HE was the one who decided who is saved and who isn’t…

 

[kujo313]

Yeah, right… everyone’s going to hell except those who follow Darwin Fish.

Bunk!..The Catholic Church was there from day one. The Greek text in acts 9:31 even uses the name ekklesia katholos to speak of the church through all, or literally, the universal church. When did your church come into being? You and Darwin have fun. I didn’t realize that you were that messed up until now.
That’s garbage…St. John the apostle (Gospel of John, epistles of John, and Revelation) didn’t even die until the end of the 1st century and Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch were just two of the guys who were discipled by him and were bishops of churches in Smyrna and Antioch and martyrs for the faith that he taught them, so you are dead wrong there. Their writings show that they believed the same things that the Catholic Church has always taught.

I thought you’d be more knowledgeable than that…but I guess not. :coffeeread:

MY Church started in Genesis Chapter 1. All prophecies in the OT are about Jesus. It is because of Him and Him alone that we can be at one with God. There is no other. There is nobody else in our way. People can pray for you but it’s still only through Jesus that we’re made righteous in God’s eyes.
God never told us to lift up the virgin.
God never told us to lift up the donkey that she rode on.
God never told us to praise the burning bush.
God never told us to lift up Jesus’ stepfather.
God sacrificed HIS Lamb, without spot or blemish. HE never said anything about the Lamb’s mother and her condition.

With all of your statues, medallions, paintings and decorations, you have the gall to say that your denomination is the “true church”. It’s not “Catholics vs. Protestants”, it’s “Christians vs. the ‘world’.”

Your denomination sins without repentance. The blind leading the blind.

I’m not saying that I’m perfect or the congregation that I belong to is, either. But I CAN say that we don’t have idols, statues, medallions or a “saint for this or that”. The Bible states that all BELIEVERS are saints. We don’t need permission from a fallible man in Italy to say so. Nobody does.

Repent.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Only blapheming your goddess. If it insults you, then I worry about your Salvation and I’ll just stay here and posting more posts.

The word is “blaspheming,” with an “s” before the p.
Aside from that, as you have been no doubt informed over and over and over again, we Catholics do not regard Mary as any sort of goddess.

Don’t worry about my salvation. I am in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Mary isn’t in my way. She is a prayer-warrior for me and with me. No saint in heaven is in my way.

And in reference to one of your most recent posts,
who are YOU to tell us we need to “repent” of anything ???
All devout Catholics have already repented of our sins and turned to Christ. You are preaching to the choir.

Goodbye, Kujo
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[believers]

Looks like Kujo isn’t going to answer the question about his authority as an infallible interpreter of Scripture.

If Kujo denies the infallibility of the Catholic Church which wrote, assembled, protected and canonized the New Testament, then he’s denying the infallibility of Scripture itself. Because the Church came first. Then the Church wrote the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Scripture gets its authority from the Church. Kujo apparently denies authority of the Church, and then goes on to set HIMSELF up as pope over the Bible, saying only Kujo’s interpretations are correct.

This is the main source of Kujo’s fundamentalist errors regarding Mary.

Your religion has no authority.

 

[jmcrae]

The statement, “Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire” comes from this private devotion and not from any official Church document or Catechism.

Not to mention the fact that only those enrolled in the Scapular have the privilege of wearing it - and you can’t be enrolled in it if you aren’t a good Catholic Christian, going to Mass at least every Sunday and as often as possible during the week, doing penance on Wednesdays and Fridays, reading and praying with Scripture at least every morning and evening (up to seven times a day, for those who do all the daily prayers and Scripture readings provided), going to Confession regularly, and doing works of charity.

It’s not a “get out of Hell free” card.

 

[believers]

Not to mention the fact that only those enrolled in the Scapular have the privilege of wearing it - and you can’t be enrolled in it if you aren’t a good Catholic Christian, going to Mass at least every Sunday and as often as possible during the week, doing penance on Wednesdays and Fridays, reading and praying with Scripture at least every morning and evening (up to seven times a day, for those who do all the daily prayers and Scripture readings provided), going to Confession regularly, and doing works of charity.

It’s not a “get out of Hell free” card.

privilege?! you mean accursed.

Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The only way this statement is true is if it is preceded by… This statement is a lie “Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”

 

[jmcrae]

privilege?! you mean accursed.

Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The Gospel that Paul preached is the Gospel that is preached by the Catholic Church.

The only way this statement is true is if it is preceded by… This statement is a lie “Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”

I bet you’ve got a magical Four Spiritual Laws tract handy for me to sign, though, doncha?

(I signed one when I was in college.)

 

[Pixie_Dust]

privilege?! you mean accursed.

Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The only way this statement is true is if it is preceded by… This statement is a lie “Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”

I just love how you like to use verses from a Catholic book against Catholics.

As has been stated MANY times on this thread - the Scapular is NOT an official teaching of the RCC. You won’t find anywhere in the Catechism that I am hell-bound because I don’t wear one.

A person who desires to wear one is looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and not looking to the scapular to save their soul. If they are, they are being superstitious and are in grave error. A person wearing a scapular is devoted to serving Christ. The scapular is a tangible reminder to be in prayer and be salt and light in a lost and dying world. A person devoted to serving Christ shall not suffer eternal fire, wouldn’t you say?

 

[JustinApologist]

Your religion has no authority.

and you do? Do you have authority? I doubt God gave you infallibility when it comes to moral and faith issue.

 

[Allweather]

Your religion has no authority.

I am certainly not surprised that believers can’t answer the authority question, either. Apparently Kujo has locked up over it. The best Believers can do is sidestep it. At least he does that. Kujo is ignoring it.

I’ve never yet found a Protestant who would face this question head-on. I’m sure it is because even the very simpleton among them know the implications of it. If the Bible is to be interpreted by the individual alone without reference to the authoritative Church, then each man is his own pope unto himself. This certainly explains the dizzying array of odd beliefs among Protestants, which we see boldly illuminated here in Kujo and Believers with respect to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[Randy_Carson]

So you have to go all the way to the year 444 A.D. to quote people? Let’s just stick to the years 6 B.C. to about 33 A.D. Maybe even another 30 years afterward. From 2nd Century and beyond the people who wrote stuff couldn’t ask the origional witnesses if it was true or not.

Gee, all of the books of the New Testament weren’t even written by the time you specified. Which ones should we leave out according to your criteria?

However, you seem to have missed the point that heretics were present from the earliest days, and the Church had to combat their false teachings by clear presentations of orthodoxy.

These were called “creeds”.

So, back to my original point, which of the Christological heresies do you personally ascribe to since you deny that Mary is the Mother of God?

 

[JustinApologist]

MY Church started in Genesis Chapter 1. All prophecies in the OT are about Jesus. It is because of Him and Him alone that we can be at one with God. There is no other. There is nobody else in our way. People can pray for you but it’s still only through Jesus that we’re made righteous in God’s eyes.
God never told us to lift up the virgin.
God never told us to lift up the donkey that she rode on.
God never told us to praise the burning bush.
God never told us to lift up Jesus’ stepfather.
God sacrificed HIS Lamb, without spot or blemish. HE never said anything about the Lamb’s mother and her condition.

With all of your statues, medallions, paintings and decorations, you have the gall to say that your denomination is the “true church”. It’s not “Catholics vs. Protestants”, it’s “Christians vs. the ‘world’.”

Your denomination sins without repentance. The blind leading the blind.

I’m not saying that I’m perfect or the congregation that I belong to is, either. But I CAN say that we don’t have idols, statues, medallions or a “saint for this or that”. The Bible states that all BELIEVERS are saints. We don’t need permission from a fallible man in Italy to say so. Nobody does.

Repent.

You are so wrong. I can see how bias this man is when it comes to the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church has 7 Sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ Himself. In the Sacrament of Reconciliation, we are given a chance to repent our sins in the confessional.

Even priests and the religious go to the confession. The statues in the Church are not worship, they are use for meditative reasons.

Oh and yes Jesus was prophecized and yes, Jesus did establish one Church and that Church is Catholic not Protestants. Your religion didn’t exist until 1517 AD with its erroneous doctrines of Scripture Alone and Faith Alone…

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Oh and yes Jesus was prophecized and yes, Jesus did establish one Church and that Church is Catholic not Protestants. Your religion didn’t exist until 1517 AD with its erroneous doctrines of Scripture Alone and Faith Alone…

Actually, if he’s pentecostal, his religion is only about 100 years old.

 

[LilyM]

Gee, all of the books of the New Testament weren’t even written by the time you specified. Which ones should we leave out according to your criteria?

Actually that’d be all of 'em - not a one of them was written until at least 15 or 20 years later :bigyikes:

So, back to my original point, which of the Christological heresies do you personally ascribe to since you deny that Mary is the Mother of God?

Nestorianism for starters.

 

[jmcrae]

So you have to go all the way to the year 444 A.D. to quote people? Let’s just stick to the years 6 B.C. to about 33 A.D. Maybe even another 30 years afterward. From 2nd Century and beyond the people who wrote stuff couldn’t ask the origional witnesses if it was true or not.

You seem to be under the impression that Jesus and the Apostles were keeping a diary. There was actually very little written down for the first 25 years after Christ’s ascension into Heaven. The one document that we still have from that period (the Didache) never even made it into the Bible.

Nothing of the New Testament began to be written down until the late fifties or early 60s AD. (Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians.) The Gospels began to be written down after 67 AD, when St. Peter was brought in chains to Rome. (That’s when they first realized that they weren’t going to live long enough to see the Second Coming, and that they should preserve the tradition of the Gospel in writing. Before that, everything was oral teaching. Most of it has remained oral teaching, even until now.) None of the Gospels were completed until after 70 AD (the Fall of Jerusalem) - the Church itself was spared, ironically, because those who were caught had been force-marched to Rome three years earlier along with St. Peter in chains, and those who escaped had scattered to the rest of the known world.