Question about Protestant beliefs

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12volt_man:
Of course I do. I just don’t believe that there is any scriptural evidence that God communicates to us by causing sores to magically appear on someone’s hand.
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Magically or miraculously? God does is not “magic”.
 
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Eden:
Magically or miraculously? God does is not “magic”.
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As it is a Roman Caholic legend and not reality, I have to believe that would be magic.
 
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12volt_man:
As it is a Roman Caholic legend and not reality, I have to believe that would be magic.
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You have not given any evidence to dispute that the occurrence of the stigmata is a miracle. Do you have a better response?
 
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Eden:
You have not given any evidence to dispute that the occurrence of the stigmata is a miracle. Do you have a better response?
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It’s absence from scripture and the fact that there is no evidence in scripture to suggest that God speaks to us in this way is all the evidence I need.
 
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12volt_man:
It’s absence from scripture and the fact that there is no evidence in scripture to suggest that God speaks to us in this way is all the evidence I need.
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I realize that Baptists do not believe in miracles. I assume you realize that Catholics are not required to believe in the stigmata but it is also not contradictory to the faith to do so.

Speaking of scripture, the last thread was closed before I could direct you to a site where you will find the Bible that was passed down to you from the Catholic Church is entirely consistent with the teachings of the Church:

scripturecatholic.com
 
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Eden:
I realize that Baptists do not believe in miracles.
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Then you have no business telling me that I don’t understand Roman Catholic teaching.

Baptists believe very much in miracles. We simply believe that miracles must be judged in light of scripture.
 
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12volt_man:
Then you have no business telling me that I don’t understand Roman Catholic teaching.

Baptists believe very much in miracles. We simply believe that miracles must be judged in light of scripture.
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When I was in a discussion with Baptists several months ago, I was told that surviving a car accident for a believer is an example of a miracle. I believe that it can be. But the law of averages could also be a factor. If you have enough accidents, or rolls of the dice, someone will walk out sometimes. This can be seen as a miracle by a believer but for an atheist, it can easily be explained by the law of averages. Why are things like a stigmata or incorruptibles that do not have a tidy explanation less easy for you to accept?
 
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Eden:
Why are things like a stigmata or incorruptibles that do not have a tidy explanation less easy for you to accept?
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I have answered this question several times for you now. If you wouldn’t listen to my answer those times, I don’t see any reason to keep repeating myself.
 
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12volt_man:
I have answered this question several times for you now. If you wouldn’t listen to my answer those times, I don’t see any reason to keep repeating myself.
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You stated that the stigmata does not appear in the Bible but you also cannot give alternative explanations for the occurrence of stigmatas other than magic.
 
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Eden:
Why are things like a stigmata or incorruptibles that do not have a tidy explanation less easy for you to accept?
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12volt_man:
I have answered this question several times for you now. If you wouldn’t listen to my answer those times, I don’t see any reason to keep repeating myself.
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I think I understand your belief that “miracles must be judged in light of scripture.”

Personally I believe that God is bigger than the Bible, and that the Bible was written so that we may know how to behave as children of God for us…the Bible was not written for God

There are miracles not documented in the Bible.
 
Almost every time our heavenly mother has appeared she requests for people to pray more, to have peace, to believe in god and to build her a church. Sorry, but I highly doubt the devil would want us to do any of these things. 😉
 
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12volt_man:
No, I don’t believe that they were liars, but I do believe that it’s very common in Roman Catholicism for legends and personality cults to grow up around revered dead people.
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FYI for 12volt and others. Padre Pio was a man who lived in the 20th century. The “legends” were about him when he was alive and many of them are well documented.

If you want to learn more about Padre Pio you might wish to try this.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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ChiFaithful:
Do protestants believe that Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Lourdes are real? Do they discount them?

On that same note, what do protestants think about the stigmata?

Finally, have any protestants ever had any situations where they saw Mary or received the stigmata?

Sorry to ask multiple questions in one post, but they are all interconnected, so please feel free to answer one or all. Thanks.
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These are simply not part of our culture. What we would do is examine if they are speaking with the dead or simply visions. If they are simply visions, we would examine their messages and methods with our understanding of scripture to see if these agree or disagree with our understandings of doctrines. If they are contray, we would dismiss them as appearances by the “angel of light”, satan. If they agree, we would ask why are these visions even neccesary whein that truth is in scripture. Either way they would be dismissed as demonic or as simply made up by the faithful, a pious fraud.
 
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12volt_man:
It’s absence from scripture and the fact that there is no evidence in scripture to suggest that God speaks to us in this way is all the evidence I need.
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Hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Based on Hebrews 1, we are not expecting any prophets to appear, nor any major visions.

Many if not most American protestants are cessationists in theology which basically believes that the miraclous gifts like prophecy have ceased since either the time of the apostles or from the writting of the last book of the New Testament.

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bible+No+visions+today+cessationist+theology&spell=1

To look for protestants that may believe in visions today, look into charsmatic, pentecostal or traditional churches.

google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=pentecostal+visions+today+miracles
 
I can really only speak for myself, but here goes:

I believe absolutely that Our Lady of Guadelupe was/is for real. What did I read someplace?? Something like 8 million people were baptized in a matter of months?? Human sacrifices ceased almost immediately, etc, etc…And, to this day, science can’t explain the existence of the miraculous portrait.
Lourdes: alll those miraculous cures have to go for something. I don’t know really how you could explain it away…I admit to not being totally certain that every word St Bernadette reported hearing was completely correct. (Saints being, after all, fallible humans too). But no doubt something beyond this world was happening.
With Fatima, I am back to OLG: look at the fruit! People finding faith, becoming more devout, etc, Is it possible that the children misunderstood part of what they reported? Sure, but they had a real experience. Something happened.

I see no reason why a devout Christian believer might not experience the stigmata. On the other hand, I really don’t know why they would, either, but I think we can trust the likes of :yup: Francis of Assisi to be truthful!!

What I don’t believe is that all these people are frauds. It simply doesn’t compute. It doesn’t square with the personalities of those involved.
There are just a lot of things we don’t understand in this world…But for sure, I don’t believe that we can just dismiss the evidence.
 
The stigmata is not an exclusively Roman Catholic phenomenon. Like miraculous healings, it goes across all denominations. Except, as far as I know, - I may well be wrong about that - Orthodoxy.
See below…NB Burrswood is or was" Free Church"

DOROTHY KERIN
(1889-1963)
• One of the stigmatics outside of the Roman Catholic Church.
• She was the founder of the Burrswood Fellowship and Healing Ministry.
• Her mystical experiences began with a period in which she was deaf, blind and semiconscious.
• As in the cases of others who have received the marks, it was some time after her initial “healing,” and once she had been established as a focus of awe in the community, that her stigmatization took place.
• It was reported that she was consciously able to leave her physical body when at prayer at night to minister to the suffering of those for whom she was praying.
• She spoke of religious ecstasies and of two visions in which she experienced the feeling of holding the Christ child in her arms.
 
Also A few years ago I had a long correspondence with a lady in the US. As a teenager in a Protestant Church, where there were no Crucifixes, only plain Crosses, she started getting fierce pain in her hands, and then in her feet, when she prayed. She thought that this must be “normal”, never having heard of the stigmata. When she told her Church, they made her leave. She became Episcopalian as she could not “go all the way” to becoming Roman Catholic. The Wounds were never visible, but she could feel the holes in her hands and feet, through a thin layer of skin. She suffered greatly.
 
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