Question about the New Earth

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PNEUMA said:
Yes, metaphors, not the physical sun, moon, stars

Revelation 12:1 “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars”

Revelation 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches”

The twelve stars are the twelve Apostles. The seven stars are the seven Church leaders in Asia Minor, that Jesus is addressing.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/x1c9li.jpg
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Hi!

…so the woman was not really pregnant, and she was not hidden in Egypt, and the Child was never born, and the ancient serpent does not really exists?

…just because one would say that he had a brush with death while drinking sweet clear water does not mean that nothing took place because the language is full of metaphors… I actually almost drowned, as a child, in a river with water so crystal clear that the bottom seemed to be a mere few feet from the surface–I jumped in and sank and kept on sinking… descriptive language does not always mean that there’s no reality involved!

…just look at the seven churches… do you actually believe that Jesus was addressing 7 physical churches that only existed during a specific time frame? Jesus is Addressing the Church in the various stages of her existence… not just seven communities that existed during the time of the Apostles!

Yes, descriptive (metaphorical) language is used… but, no, it does not mean that there’s no connection to reality nor that there’s a limit to the application.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
PNEUMA said:
Christians are not unconsciously (without being aware of it) serving Christ. So none of the persons in the parable could possibly be Christians.

The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son John 5:22

I came not to judge the world, but to save the world John 12:47

He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. John 12:48
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Hi!

…the problem with that premise is that you are suggesting that all it takes to serve Jesus is the claim of being “Christian;” Jesus Himself busted that bubble when He stated that:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
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(St. Matthew 7:21)
…and, again:
46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
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(St. Luke 6:46)
…we have such “Christians” in the world today… Christ Commands ‘Divorce is indissoluble;’ a huge many of “Christians” have determined, 'well, divorce is ok ‘cause the law of the land says its ok.’ How many other “land-laws” are “Christians” actively following while putting aside God’s Command?

Suggesting that “conscious Christians” adhere fast to the Lord and to His Word and that they never veer from Him is to infer that, once a Christian, man never sins nor serve other gods (himself, money, power, greed, gluttony, avarice, hatred…); when a “Christian” reverts to sin, he/she has in effect rejected Christ Lead!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
PNEUMA said:
Christians are not unconsciously (without being aware of it) serving Christ. So none of the persons in the parable could possibly be Christians.

The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son John 5:22

I came not to judge the world, but to save the world John 12:47

He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. John 12:48
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"But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’

“The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’

“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Note how Jesus says ALL the nations are gonna be judged. Christians are part of the nations.

And 2 Corinthians 5:10 flat out states all will be judged for what they did in the body.
 
jcrichton said:
PNEUMA;14521007:
Yes, metaphors, not the physical sun, moon, stars

Revelation 12:1
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“And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars”

Revelation 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches”

The twelve stars are the twelve Apostles. The seven stars are the seven Church leaders in Asia Minor, that Jesus is addressing.
Hi!

…so the woman was not really pregnant, and she was not hidden in Egypt, and the Child was never born, and the ancient serpent does not really exists?

…just because one would say that he had a brush with death while drinking sweet clear water does not mean that nothing took place because the language is full of metaphors… I actually almost drowned, as a child, in a river with water so crystal clear that the bottom seemed to be a mere few feet from the surface–I jumped in and sank and kept on sinking… descriptive language does not always mean that there’s no reality involved!

…just look at the seven churches… do you actually believe that Jesus was addressing 7 physical churches that only existed during a specific time frame? Jesus is Addressing the Church in the various stages of her existence… not just seven communities that existed during the time of the Apostles!

Yes, descriptive (metaphorical) language is used… but, no, it does not mean that there’s no connection to reality nor that there’s a limit to the application.

Maran atha!

Angel
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Absurd, the sun, the moon, the stars in the book of Revelation are physical, but the seven churches are not ?

Jesus was addressing seven Church leaders in Asia Minor (metaphorically called angels) with whom he was not pleased on all matters.

Rev 2:1 “to the angel of the church in Ephesus”
Rev 2:8 “to the angel of the church in Smyrna”
Rev 2:12 “to the angel of the church in Pergamum”
Rev 2:18 “to the angel of the church in Thyatira”
Rev 3:1 “to the angel of the church in Sardis”
Rev 3:7 “to the angel of the church in Philadelphia”
Rev 3:14 “to the angel of the church in Laodicea”

And yes it was a specific time frame (the end times) when the seven “angels” spoke and thereby destroyed the enemy

Rev 8:7 “The first angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:8 “The second angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:10 “The third angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:12 “The fourth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 9:1 “the fifth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 9:13 “the sixth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 11:15 “the seventh angel blew his trumpet”

blew his trumpet = spoke with a loud voice

Rev 1:10 “I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying”


Seven priests destroy the city of Jericho with seven trumpets and a loud shout
 
So the whole book of Revelation is not relevant to you, PNEUMA?
 
James248 said:
So the whole book of Revelation is not relevant to you, PNEUMA?
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This story from Asia Minor, confirms St. John’s theology on the power of the voice (word) and the breath (spirit) of God. Which is utmost relevant, James248 It also tells us how the first Christians conquered.
 
PNEUMA said:
This story from Asia Minor, confirms St. John’s theology on the power of the voice (word) and the breath (spirit) of God. Which is utmost relevant, James248 It also tells us how the first Christians conquered.
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It tells not just history but how He will conquer in the future. This is a meaning that is lost on you by turning it into a history book.
 
James248 said:
It tells not just history but how He will conquer in the future. This is a meaning that is lost on you by turning it into a history book.
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John 16:33 “take courage; I have conquered the world!”

You don’t understand St. John’s theology.
 
PNEUMA said:
John 16:33 “take courage; I have conquered the world!”

You don’t understand St. John’s theology.
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That is translated as “overcome.”

Revelation talks about how Jesus will come to judge ALL people according to their deeds.
 
James248 said:
That is translated as “overcome.”

Revelation talks about how Jesus will come to judge ALL people according to their deeds.
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Not the conquerors

Rev 2:11 “Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death.”

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years”

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death”

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 3:18 “He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!
…the problem with that premise is that you are suggesting that all it takes to serve Jesus is the claim of being “Christian;” …
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No, you don’t have to be a Christian at all, to inherit the kingdom

Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me”

Matthew 10:40 “He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me. He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward”
 
bjpeter said:
After the Last Judgement and the old Heaven and old earth have been replaced by the new Heaven and new earth, will human beings continue to still be born or will the earth be filled with only the resurrected righteous (i.e. no one will die, no one else will be born)?

I’m curious to hear your thoughts.
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My thoughts…🙂 It is important to remember that at the Last Judgment the old heaven and earth will pass away.

So to me that means that everything we know of this earth will be gone and nothing remains of the old earth and heaven because it will be transformed. So that speaks to the end of time when our planet as we know it is no more and all there is a supernatural glorified Kingdom of God. The interesting thing are these words in the following scripture. ‘and there was no longer any sea’.

Rev 21:1*Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

IMO There will not be any new births because at that time there will be fulfillment of the Kingdom and there will be final judgment and a Glorious resurrection of the Body and we will finally see the face of God. So in the heavenly realms we shouldn’t make the expectations of the earthly realities of newborns or life as we know it on earth because what we are on earth will be fulfilled in Christ. And there will be the glorification of the Body which was created for this earthly life and later reunited with God…

Remember the story of Moses who could not look upon God, because He was a consuming fire and an unapproachable light? Well we will be able to see the face of God at the end of time in the beatific vision. No one knows really what this will look like but it will be beautiful.

CCC 1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640
 
PNEUMA said:
Not the conquerors
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But Pneuma Jesus doesn’t specify the conquers will not be judged. Jesus says the people of every nation, meaning all…

Matthew 25:31*“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. 33 He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
 
PNEUMA said:
Absurd, the sun, the moon, the stars in the book of Revelation are physical, but the seven churches are not ?

Jesus was addressing seven Church leaders in Asia Minor (metaphorically called angels) with whom he was not pleased on all matters.

Rev 2:1 “to the angel of the church in Ephesus”
Rev 2:8 “to the angel of the church in Smyrna”
Rev 2:12 “to the angel of the church in Pergamum”
Rev 2:18 “to the angel of the church in Thyatira”
Rev 3:1 “to the angel of the church in Sardis”
Rev 3:7 “to the angel of the church in Philadelphia”
Rev 3:14 “to the angel of the church in Laodicea”

And yes it was a specific time frame (the end times) when the seven “angels” spoke and thereby destroyed the enemy

Rev 8:7 “The first angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:8 “The second angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:10 “The third angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 8:12 “The fourth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 9:1 “the fifth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 9:13 “the sixth angel blew his trumpet”
Rev 11:15 “the seventh angel blew his trumpet”

blew his trumpet = spoke with a loud voice

Rev 1:10 “I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying”

http://oi65.tinypic.com/35kihld.jpg
Seven priests destroy the city of Jericho with seven trumpets and a loud shout
Click to expand...
Hi!

…I think we could go on forever on this miss and miss subject.

I was hoping you could understand that metaphor does not translate to “no real content,” and that we cannot limit Scriptures because we find it difficult to coalesce descriptive language with literal events…

May the Holy Spirit enlighten you!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
PNEUMA said:
No, you don’t have to be a Christian at all, to inherit the kingdom

Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me”

Matthew 10:40 “He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me. He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward”
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Hi!

…you truly have a liberal understanding of things, don’t you?

How can one receive a disciple of Christ if not by being in Fellowship with Christ?.. or do you take it to mean that by giving a Christian a glass of water out of respect for the temporal need of that person, the host is granted Salvation?

Look into the context: “because he is My disciple,” “because I was… and you did it for Me.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
PNEUMA said:
Not the conquerors

Rev 2:11 “Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death.”

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years”

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death”

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 3:18 “He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
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2 Corinthians 5:10
 
Karen107 said:
But Pneuma Jesus doesn’t specify the conquers will not be judged. Jesus says the people of every nation, meaning all…

Matthew 25:31*“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. 33 He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
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PNEUMA can’t answer that.
 
James248 said:
PNEUMA;14524297:
Not the conquerors

Rev 2:11
Click to expand...
“Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death.”

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years”

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death”

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 3:18 "He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."2 Corinthians 5:10
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At the time, Paul did not believe the first resurrection had taken place. But understood it later.

2 Timothy 2: 16 "Avoid profane chatter, for it will lead people into more and more impiety, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth by claiming that the resurrection has already taken place.

1 Corinthians 5:10 “Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! Quite apart from us you have become kings! Indeed, I wish that you had become kings, so that we might be kings with you!”
 
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