Well, when someone is performing rituals before a statue, you had said that it is impossible to know if they are idolizing the statue. I simply thought that you might ask a few questions. But then again if you are not supposed to ask or tell about idolatry, then you are right, who knows what is going on…
Micheal how can we possibly “agree to dissagree” when the things you say are filled with utter hate towards us and our church". And the presence in the box “or whatever you call it” is the tabernacle which contains the true body and blood of Jesus, we are bowing actually genuflecting to Jesus himself, are you too proud to acknowledge Jesus when he is right in front of you?Hello all your guys. I hear you defending the Roman Catholic Church and that is only to be expected, and I have checked out you Commandments page.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
Yeah that’s right actually. Nobody knows but the person him/herself so brother2 has no right to make the claim that one who does this, is idol worshiping. I know for a fact I don’t and nor does the Church teach this. And I encourage him to ask away actually. I would also have no need to lie cause if I did worship these images, it would mean I wouldn’t believe in the Church and what She teaches. There would be no point remaining a Catholic if I thought these statues were on par with God. I’d have to create my own religion using graven images as my Gods.
I believe the original poster of that was telling that to you specifically because all the information about what and why we believe is at your fingertips yet you ranted off something we hear all the time from Adventists and Protestants who no nothing at all about Catholicism. No offense but your kind of brainwashing toward us as he/she insisted could be cured with a little effort of asking first, listening second.
No other way can keep a fold together. You may laugh at that but you have to admit, there are plenty of different denominations all who think they have the right interpretation of their beliefs and no way of knowing absolutely that they are right.
I’ll let another answer this question but I hope you again aren’t trying to judge their hearts on their outward appearance.
As a brother2 I agree, ‘Judge not that ye be now judged’. Although I felt pretty well judged at the beginning of this Thread, though I take no offence from it.I believe the original poster of that was telling that to you specifically because all the information about what and why we believe is at your fingertips yet you ranted off something we hear all the time from Adventists and Protestants who no nothing at all about Catholicism. No offense but your kind of brainwashing toward us as he/she insisted could be cured with a little effort of asking first, listening second.
No other way can keep a fold together. You may laugh at that but you have to admit, there are plenty of different denominations all who think they have the right interpretation of their beliefs and no way of knowing absolutely that they are right.
Then your bible alone position is in even more trouble when you think of how little people could read or write and how very little Bible there were to go around in the first 1200 or so years especially because of the time, effort and cost it would take to duplicate it. (No printing press)
I’ll let another answer this question but I hope you again aren’t trying to judge their hearts on their outward appearance.
Micheal, once again you could not be more wrong, bibles were not chained into place because as you will say the church was tryiing to keep it from people.Just a PS. Yes Bibles in old times were chained to the walls of religious buildings. Or just one in a village or town. Although many good Christians used to write out Chapters and whole books by hand and read them and distribute them to other people. I think Martin Luther’s Bible was chained to his Cell wall.
We must lift up these middle ages Christians as role models huh, some Catholics others becoming Protestant, all did their bit to spread gospel of Scripture to their fellow human beings. Saints? Well believe it or not all ‘saved’ Christians are saints in the eyes of God; even The Saints were just as sinful human beings like us…though they did some special work amongst the people, an example for all us ‘saints’ who are living now.
Christian greetings to all. Michael.
That again is all an opinion of yours derived from ‘your own’ personal interpretation from the Written Word Of God. You ever wonder why you believe in the Bible alone theory yet you can’t even find this doctrine in the Bible? Doctrines of men indeed brother2.
God would not raise the reformers into error which clearly is what has become of the many denominations that splintered from this. He may have allowed it to happen so that the Church could cleanse itself from certain things going on inside of Her by sinful men but never to change Doctrine.
Have you ever dared to ask why this was so? As I said before, Bibles didn’t come cheap and much effort was used in duplicating them. So chaining up such an expensive item would seem very logical to me in fear of theft.
This has been discussed with other SDAs on here in the past. Below is a link to an excellent post as to why Bibles were chained. They were expensive for many reasons, not the least of which was that it took approximately 250 sheep to provide the skin for the pages. The printing press of course changed things…but are there books still chained? Mercygate points out that yes, at Oxfored University there is a book chained in their library to this day…and why that is.
As it is mine not to believe your replies to me.
this intrigues me. were you thinking that you’d be able to come on this site, say a few word and the Catholics would “see the light”? did you think we wouldnt or better yet couldnt defend our faith? it seems to me the one who cant defend his church is you…
you never did answer my question about the not kill commandment and your church’s official stance on abortion. maybe because there is no defence for it?
Hello johnshark. I’m glad it intrigues you, is that not the whole idea? I Respect you for your beliefs as I repeat all the time. No it is the System. Just as you have the right to have a go at the System I belong too.
Thou shalt not kill? As I recall I mentioned conscience in my reply, no it does not replace the Ten Commandments, of course not. But is it thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not Murder?? Can we kill the enemy when our country is threatened? Probably many Catholics and Protestants in the army, kill the enemy??? Yes, because it is lawful or their conscience allows them??
Abortion for me is the same. My conscience says that most of the time abortion is wrong. but there are times when it becomes personal choice…rape, incest and maybe handicap, maybe not as you say. Praise God I never had to make the choice.
The biggest difference may be the dogma of your Church that tells you Abortion is wrong, full stop!! Contraception is wrong, full stop!! Obey the Church and take the mass and confess to the priest or you go to hell or pergatory?? (if i could spell it?).
I really apologise for that I do, sorry…but we have an Advocate with the Father, the Man Christ Jesus, we don’t need to confess to a human being…maybe no harm in confessing to a minister or priest, but a human being cannot forgive sin on behalf of God…and definitely not obligatory!!
We are all part of the Christian Church, Protestant and Roman Catholic, and we love and respect each other, though we have the right to discuss, debate and point out what you or I believe is error with the Christian Church.
Shalom Peace and God bless all here. Michael.
i understand your saying that many Catholics and protestants kill in combat…BUT your church actively tries to dissuade its members from joining the military because killing is wrong. so how can it turn around and say that the killing/murdering of innocent life is OK. i hate to harp on this point but is seems that there is cognitive dissonance there. and as far as personal choice goes why is it OK to get an abortion but not to worship on sunday?
Thanks for that johnshark…I rest my case…ha I said that you and I can point out error within our Systems…so thank for that…you may or may not be sorry to hear that Sam Bacchi died recently, he had liver cancer…a great loss indeed…I received his newsletters each month. He attended the papal university in Rome and had the papal mark on his books, he took a leaf out of the jesuits book…sorry attempt at a joke…
uh methinks you didnt read my post but just scanned itThanks for that johnshark…I rest my case…ha I said that you and I can point out error within our Systems…so thank for that…you may or may not be sorry to hear that Sam Bacchi died recently, he had liver cancer…a great loss indeed…I received his newsletters each month. He attended the papal university in Rome and had the papal mark on his books, he took a leaf out of the jesuits book…sorry attempt at a joke…
History in the first second and third centuries is not an artform, we were not there…Ha ha, the Roman Catholic fathers were there of course and wrote their own opinion or version of what was happening…there was a backlash against the Jews of course and keeping Sabbath on the 7th day was too Jewish for some…though there is no evidence in Scripture of Sunday worship, they broke bread every day, and the meeting you mentioned could well have been Saturday night, first day beginning at sunset…definitely too Jewish huh, but they probably did keep the day beginning at sunset.
Like with all changes it is usually a gradual event rather than immediate…so it probably took hundreds of years for the gradual change…some wanting to distance themselves from the Jews… others keeping to the 7th day. Until Constantine got into the act…321 by the way…the first law regarding sunday…
Paul kept Sabbath anyway, went to the synagoge every week, debating with the Jews and Greeks so Gentiles were there too…
To say the Pope changed it is too symplistic of course, it was gradual, though the Bible says ‘he sits in the temple of God claiming to be god, and he thought to change times and laws’…so it became a symbol of the power of the Roman Catholic Church that they were able to do it so they did…history has been carefully changed by the Church of course, holding all the archives…
Old Catechisms actually boast of it…if you look at my websites i included…
So, Shalom, peace, and may God bless all here. Michael.
OH boy this is so good eh johnshark? the cut and thrust of debate!!..I defend your right to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church and join the Roman Catholic Church by the way, freedom of choice and all that…free will…conscience…
I did read your ‘blog’. But its what I have heard so often. And yes it is sad, born or unborn…I agree. Michael.
You are still keeping me up johnshark ha ha. No, believe me john I am reading all your well thought out writing and I appreciate where you are coming from honest I do. I have learned to listen as I have got older and I hear you.
john…see you tomorrow mate…