Question for All Scholars Concerning Sabbath

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Hellisreal said:
You do feel you are a true christian no?

Simply support your argument with like minded individuals as yourself that can trace this heresy in an unbroken line.

This should be quite “doable” if in fact you are what you claim to be.
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You know why I am a Christian, because I am trying to COPY Jesus, to do exactly what He was doing! He got baptised when He was older, so did I. He kept the Sabbath, so do I. Whatever He did I wanna do the same and I feel I cant go wrong that way 🙂
 
pedja said:
Matthew 16:18-19 = Peter was not Catholic.
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He was Jewish, at that time. Jesus was appointing him as head of a new organization - Christ’s Church - and giving him a new name (Peter) to signify his change in status.

Trivia question: Of what religion is the Apostle Peter recognized as the first leader? (HINT: The Catholic Church.)
Matthew 28:16-20 = Jesus is not talking about the Catholic church. Read the text.
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“Catholic” means “all the world.” Jesus is commanding them to establish the Catholic (world wide) Church.
John 21:15-19 = Peter was not Catholic. Actually at that stage Peter is closer to being an Adventist than Catholic.
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He lived 1800 years too early for the SDA church.
 
The head of the church was and is Jesus, not Peter. Even Peter recognized that fact.
 
pedja said:
You know why I am a Christian, because I am trying to COPY Jesus, to do exactly what He was doing! He got baptised when He was older, so did I. He kept the Sabbath, so do I. Whatever He did I wanna do the same and I feel I cant go wrong that way 🙂
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Admirable desires of course. No matter how much they in fact do contradict the purpose Jesus had for selecting apostles in the first place.

Good intentions aside, realize that you have interjected your own personal understanding of Jesus as a mere buddy or friend (which is perfectly fine to do) if one understands he also gave us a teaching authority as well.

Jesus never read from the NT. Please toss out yours now.
 
pedja said:
The head of the church was and is Jesus, not Peter. Even Peter recognized that fact.
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True. Peter only had administrative authority. He couldn’t just make stuff up. Nobody in the Catholic Church thinks he could have.
 
pedja said:
The head of the church was and is Jesus, not Peter. Even Peter recognized that fact.
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You see here you are using semantics. We have already addressed that Jesus established the Church. It is Peter who was chosen by Jesus to carry this mission forward excercising Love while remaining “in charge”.

This is not answering for us a thing in regard to holding the saturday sabbath.
 
In fact, dear SDA poster here, (I forget your name)

Not only will you have to toss out your NT because Jesus never read it, you may have to re-think so many other things too.

Jesus never got married as his bride is the Church.

I hope you will enjoy a life without a wife, or be forced to start up a new religion to be “bridegroom” to.
 
pedja said:
So for you Hebrew and Jewish is the same?

How can he be Jewish when his parents were from the tribe Levi?
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Of course Judaism is the religion of the hebrew nation. Yes and all people in the tribe of levi (levites) were and are Jews.

You have me at a disadvantage as I have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

Wait - (after pondering a few minutes) I don’t mean to insult you but could it possibly be you think that of the twelve tribes of Israel only those of the tribe of Yehudah (Judah) were Jews? **
 
chosen_people said:
Of course Judaism is the religion of the hebrew nation. Yes and all people in the tribe of levi (levites) were and are Jews.

You have me at a disadvantage as I have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

Wait - (after pondering a few minutes) I don’t mean to insult you but could it possibly be you think that of the twelve tribes of Israel only those of the tribe of Yehudah (Judah) were Jews? **

NO, I am just making a difference between Hebrews and Jews, and as Jews I consider all people from Jacobs Son Yehud, but of course later the Jews were all of the people from the Iudea, so the thing with Moses was only that he was from the tribe Levi and not Yehud, you know what I mean?? I know it can get confusing here 🙂

My point was anyway that Sabbath was not only for the Jews because God nowhere says it is the Jewish Sabbath, it was always God`s Sabbath. Therefore I believe Christians should also keep the Sabbath and not Sunday.
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Hellisreal said:
In fact, dear SDA poster here, (I forget your name)

Not only will you have to toss out your NT because Jesus never read it, you may have to re-think so many other things too.

Jesus never got married as his bride is the Church.

I hope you will enjoy a life without a wife, or be forced to start up a new religion to be “bridegroom” to.
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But I`m wrong if I do exactly what Jesus has done concerning the Sabbath?
 
pedja said:
But I`m wrong if I do exactly what Jesus has done concerning the Sabbath?
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So, your argument is that you will pick and chose which things you will emulate that Jesus Christ did?:confused:
 
pedja said:
But I`m wrong if I do exactly what Jesus has done concerning the Sabbath?
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Jesus changed the day of the Sabbath by rising again from the dead.

The first Sabbath was because of the creation of the world, together with the human race. The second was because of the salvation of the human race. What is more important, in the end - to be created, or to be saved? Which deserves more honour?

The Bible teaches us that Jesus rose from the dead (thus opening the gates of Heaven to the human race) on the first day of the week - Sunday.
 
Pedja,

I hope you are not planning on being scoruged and crucifyed either. Or worshipped.

I say this to you to illustrate how illogical your earlier position is if taken to the extreeme and literally.
 
pedja said:
NO, I am just making a difference between Hebrews and Jews, and as Jews I consider all people from Jacobs Son Yehud, but of course later the Jews were all of the people from the Iudea, so the thing with Moses was only that he was from the tribe Levi and not Yehud, you know what I mean?? I know it can get confusing here 🙂

My point was anyway that Sabbath was not only for the Jews because God nowhere says it is the Jewish Sabbath, it was always God`s Sabbath. Therefore I believe Christians should also keep the Sabbath and not Sunday.
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Your definition of who was or is a Jew is not in the least confusing. It is merely lacking in any historical, religious or logical validity.

However you want to twist and turn, the ten commandments and the torah were given by God to the Jewish people at sinai.

The concept of the sabbath was revolutionary. A group of former slaves expounding (or accepting from God) the idea of a day of rest. (Okay God rested after creating the world but here were talking about man resting from his daily work)

Jews celebrate the sabbath on the day set forth by God. Certain Christians made sunday into the sabbath and muslims made friday into the sabbath (first and foremost in my opinion to differentiate their religions from Judaism- ironically Christianity continued this process of differention form Judaism by adopting pagan dates for its other holidays).

Perhaps the important thing is not the day they mark the sabbath but the acceptance of the concept of sabbath by these two other religions.
 
chosen_people said:
Your definition of who was or is a Jew is not in the least confusing. It is merely lacking in any historical, religious or logical validity.

However you want to twist and turn, the ten commandments and the torah were given by God to the Jewish people at sinai.

The concept of the sabbath was revolutionary. A group of former slaves expounding (or accepting from God) the idea of a day of rest. (Okay God rested after creating the world but here were talking about man resting from his daily work)

Jews celebrate the sabbath on the day set forth by God. Certain Christians made sunday into the sabbath and muslims made friday into the sabbath (first and foremost in my opinion to differentiate their religions from Judaism - …
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With you up to here …
… ironically Christianity continued this process of differention form Judaism by adopting pagan dates for its other holidays).
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The cycle of the year was given by God; not by the pagans. The pagans realized that something important was being signified (because they weren’t stupid), but didn’t know what it was (ie: the light returning to the world in late December - Jesus was born into the world on December 25th to show us the real light; life returning to the world in the spring - Jesus rising to new life at Easter to show us the true meaning of life) - Jesus revealed these meanings to us through the events of His incarnation, life, death, and resurrection, which are commemorated in the Church’s yearly celebrations and liturgical cycle.
Perhaps the important thing is not the day they mark the sabbath but the acceptance of the concept of sabbath by these two other religions.
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That’s a good point.
 
jmcrae said:
With you up to here …

The cycle of the year was given by God; not by the pagans. The pagans realized that something important was being signified (because they weren’t stupid), but didn’t know what it was (ie: the light returning to the world in late December - Jesus was born into the world on December 25th to show us the real light; life returning to the world in the spring - Jesus rising to new life at Easter to show us the true meaning of life) - Jesus revealed these meanings to us through the events of His incarnation, life, death, and resurrection, which are commemorated in the Church’s yearly celebrations and liturgical cycle.

That’s a good point.
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The thing is that Yehoshua bar Yosef wasn’t born on December
25th but that day turned into Christmas because it was a pagan holiday. The devine inspiration of pagans is somewhat ironic in my eyes.

for a discussion of the pagan origin of christmas see:
sabbatarian.com/Paganism/XmasHistory.html
 
pedja said:
You know why I am a Christian, because I am trying to COPY Jesus, to do exactly what He was doing! He got baptised when He was older, so did I. He kept the Sabbath, so do I. Whatever He did I wanna do the same and I feel I cant go wrong that way 🙂
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Well, as you pointed out yourself earlier on this thread, there was no SDA Church around back then, so I guess you can’t be an Adventist if you only do what Jesus did. Your only option is to go to your local synagogue from now on, since that was what Jesus did every Saturday. Let me know how that goes.
 
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